Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!!

[DarthSkywalker]

Some fallacies that need correction:

1. James Gunn announced he was directing Guardians of the Galaxy in September 2012. He was reportedly in talks to direct it as early as August 2012.
https://www.rollingstone.com/movies...direct-marvels-guardians-of-the-galaxy-92153/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/james-gunn-marvel-guardians-of-the-galaxy-363928

2. Some of Gunn's "offensive tweets" are dated after he was in talks with or already hired by Disney. At least one is dated as late as December 2012, after he already confirmed his hiring for Guardians of the Galaxy.

3. If Gunn truly has matured and grown as a person, why post something like this on Twitter? Now look. I don't know how Jared Leto is as a person or what he does behind closed doors. But that goes the same for Gunn. I've heard the accusations about Leto, but they are still just accusations. On Twitter, Gunn basically interjects himself to an online conversation between Dylan Sprouse and Jared Leto, and basically lowkey accuses Leto of being a statutory rapist. I mean, I'm sorry, but that's a pretty serious accusations. Why use Twitter as the platform to do that? Gunn posted this tweet in MAY 2018!
https://***********/jamesgunn/status/996637656913141760?lang=en

4. The only apology, before this incident, I can find from Gunn was when he apologized over his superhero list blog. More on that below. You guys want to know the outlet that called him out on that offensive blog from 2010 or 2011(?) was a left-leaning website called The Mary Sue. Just saying. For that occasion, the source of the outrage was a leftist website. However, I never saw any apology for the tweets in question until now.
https://www.themarysue.com/james-gunn-apology/

5. The world would be a much better place if people stopped tweeting. Social media in general is poisonous and toxic. People should stop using them. Just for example. Look at Gunn's tweet directed at Leto. he basically comes in, posts a short tweet accusing Leto of being a predator toward underage women on the internet. No follow-up. There's nothing of substance. Yet he makes a serious accusation and basically accuses Leto of committing illegal acts. Why is this OK? All politics aside, why is it OK to do something like that?

1. It is actually interesting, because to downplay it, the idea that it was a decade ago, when not all of it was.

3. Too be fair, do you know what Gunn knows about Leto? And even yourself state you know there are rumors. The same applies to the likes of Weinstein. When Seth Macfarlane called him out on a award show, was that a problem? Hannibal Buress and Cosby?

4. That is all I could find as well. It seems people are lumping all his incorrect behavior together.

 

[Godkiller]

5. The world would be a much better place if people stopped tweeting. Social media in general is poisonous and toxic. People should stop using them. Just for example. Look at Gunn's tweet directed at Leto. he basically comes in, posts a short tweet accusing Leto of being a predator toward underage women on the internet. No follow-up. There's nothing of substance. Yet he makes a serious accusation and basically accuses Leto of committing illegal acts. Why is this OK? All politics aside, why is it OK to do something like that?

5. is a fallacy. Social media is just a tool for communication. It's not inherently bad. It's just technology and it's up to people how they use it.

 

[TheVileOne]

1. It is actually interesting, because to downplay it, the idea that it was a decade ago, when not all of it was.

Correct, some of it was as late as December 2012. Sorry folks. A decade is 10 years. Less than six years does not equal 10 years.

3. Too be fair, do you know what Gunn knows about Leto? And even yourself state you know there are rumors. The same applies to the likes of Weinstein. When Seth Macfarlane called him out on a award show, was that unfair?

OK in the interest of having a fair conversation about this. Here is what I think about that.

No I don't know what he knows. However, that doesn't make it fair to Leto though. Gunn might not know jack slack. Or what he knows could be from someone who hates Jared Leto for all I know. Also, does this not go multiple ways? Hypothetically, what if things are known about Gunn we are not aware of?

My thought on the Seth MacFarlane thing. Before I go into this, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong on this and I won't consider it absolute. My thought on that joke by MacFarlane is that it seems to expose that people in Hollywood were well aware of Harvey Weinstein's crimes but refused to do anything about it besides making lowkey jokes. Like they knew but looked the other way?

Similarly, if Gunn is aware of these crimes by Leto, why is putting up a vague tweet his recourse? To me it's very shallow and lacks substance, especially if he's trying to expose Leto of illegal crimes.

4. That is all I could find as well. It seems people are lumping all his incorrect behavior together.

I understand why. People like James Gunn and his work. They don't want him to be fired and they are coming to his defense. That I understand. But that doesn't mean it's correct.

But plenty of people have made off-color and filthy jokes before and not been able to hide behind a veil of being a "provocateur." I also don't see some of these free speech or liberty advocates who have defended Gunn to others who might have made similar mistakes or told a filthy joke at the wrong time or made an iffy statement.

Lest we not forget, Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner being attacked over "****gate," which was nothing more than a joke. No they didn't get fired or anything. But people accused them of ****shaming:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ack-widow-avengers-ultron-20150423-story.html

 

[TheVileOne]

5. is a fallacy. Social media is just a tool for communication. It's not inherently bad. It's just technology and it's up to people how they use it.

Do you feel the same way about guns? It's fine if you do. I'm just curious.

 

[Godkiller]

Do you feel the same way about guns? It's fine if you do. I'm just curious.

Yup. But there's also a difference between types of guns. Like a butter knife is different from a sword. Guns don't have to fire lethal bullets all the time.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

OK in the interest of having a fair conversation about this. Here is what I think about that.

No I don't know what he knows. However, that doesn't make it fair to Leto though. Gunn might not know jack slack. Or what he knows could be from someone who hates Jared Leto for all I know. Also, does this not go multiple ways? Hypothetically, what if things are known about Gunn we are not aware of?

My thought on the Seth MacFarlane thing. Before I go into this, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong on this and I won't consider it absolute. My thought on that joke by MacFarlane is that it seems to expose that people in Hollywood were well aware of Harvey Weinstein's crimes but refused to do anything about it besides making lowkey jokes. Like they knew but looked the other way?

Similarly, if Gunn is aware of these crimes by Leto, why is putting up a vague tweet his recourse? To me it's very shallow and lacks substance, especially if he's trying to expose Leto of illegal crimes.

Honestly in my opinion, they are pretty similar in their content. "Jokes" about stuff it seems a lot of Hollywood might have vague knowledge of. Also typing in Jared Leto and underage girls did bring up actual accusations.

 

[TheVileOne]

Honestly in my opinion, they are pretty similar in their content. "Jokes" about stuff it seems a lot of Hollywood might have vague knowledge of. Also typing in Jared Leto and underage girls did bring up actual accusations.

OK, but is it a sign of maturity and growth as a person to do that on Twitter? And this was not even a decade ago. It was only about two months.

My other problem with Gunn's tweets, I knew he was an indie filmmaker and had done some edgy fringe stuff beforehand. But I didn't know he was a comedic provocateur just trying to say shocking and outrageous things to get a reaction.

I think the problem with the tweets is that it's hard to find context in lone tweets like that. A comedian has a standup act. Now maybe the comedian is telling some dark and filthy jokes relating to those topics. But it's easier to excuse that because it's a comedian performing at an 18 or over bar or on late night TV.

Twitter is public and anyone can find those tweets. An adult show or standup comedy act will not be as readily available.

FYI, not sure it makes anyone feel any better but Ben Shapiro has said he doesn't think Gunn should've been fired over the tweets. Just saying.

Now honestly I'm conflicted over this issue. I want Gunn to do Guardians 3. I don't want him to be fired. But I understand why Disney reached this decision. Basically, the whole thing makes me sad.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

OK, but is it a sign of maturity and growth as a person to do that on Twitter? And this was not even a decade ago. It was only about two months.

My other problem with Gunn's tweets, I knew he was an indie filmmaker and had done some edgy fringe stuff beforehand. But I didn't know he was a comedic provocateur just trying to say shocking and outrageous things to get a reaction.

I think the problem with the tweets is that it's hard to find context in lone tweets like that. A comedian has a standup act. Now maybe the comedian is telling some dark and filthy jokes relating to those topics. But it's easier to excuse that because it's a comedian performing at an 18 or over bar or on late night TV.

Twitter is public and anyone can find those tweets. An adult show or standup comedy act will not be as readily available.

FYI, not sure it makes anyone feel any better but Ben Shapiro has said he doesn't think Gunn should've been fired over the tweets. Just saying.

Now honestly I'm conflicted over this issue. I want Gunn to do Guardians 3. I don't want to be fired. But I understand why Disney reached this decision. Basically, the whole thing makes me sad.

Oh, I agree on the tweets. When it comes to the stuff with Leto, I honestly don't know how to feel about that. I mean, it does not feel dissimilar to the comments made about others sinece #MeToo really kicked into high gear.

Nothing the vile human being Ben Shapiro has to say makes me feel anything other then a lot of eye rolling considering what he has said and preached.

 

[TheVileOne]

Also guys, not all of the jokes were just relating to pedophilia. One was a joke about Jews and ovens, that one was from October 2009. So that one was over 8 years ago.

Another one he did from June 2008 was a racist joke about Mexicans. So that was 10 years old.

Not sure if the time frame matters, but it does matter to some who say the fact that these are all very old and a decade ago, they shouldn't matter.

As a Jewish person, it's hard for me to be OK with him posting just a one-off joke in that context.

I'm not saying you can never make those type of jokes, and I'm not going to be the moral authority here. But yeah, I can see how a lot of these put together can look bad. Also, not like he was a kid in high school making these jokes. He was a 41-year-old man. He's 51 now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Also guys, not all of the jokes were just relating to pedophilia. One was a joke about Jews and ovens, that one was from October 2009. So that one was over 8 years ago.

Another one he did from June 2008 was a racist joke about Mexicans. So that was 10 years old.

Not sure if the time frame matters, but it does matter to some who say the fact that these are all very old and a decade ago, they shouldn't matter.

As a Jewish person, it's hard for me to be OK with him posting just a one-off joke in that context.

I'm not saying you can never make those type of jokes, and I'm not going to be the moral authority here. But yeah, I can see how a lot of these put together can look bad. Also, not like he was a kid in high school making these jokes. He was a 41-year-old man. He's 51 now.

Was that the one about Mexican food burning his mouth? Because as one of Mexican heritage, that felt like a really obvious joke. If it is something else, I'd be curious to see it.

 

[TheVileOne]

Was that the one about Mexican food burning his mouth? Because as one of Mexican heritage, that felt like a really obvious joke. If it is something else, I'd be curious to see it.

Yes. I admit, I might be hypersensitive in calling it "racist." A racial joke but perhaps not a racist one?

But he also made jokes about rape and sexual assault as well. Which again...it's not the greatest look when you aren't known as being a standup comedian or whatever.

 

[Flash525]

5. The world would be a much better place if people stopped tweeting. Social media in general is poisonous and toxic. People should stop using them. Just for example. Look at Gunn's tweet directed at Leto. he basically comes in, posts a short tweet accusing Leto of being a predator toward underage women on the internet. No follow-up. There's nothing of substance. Yet he makes a serious accusation and basically accuses Leto of committing illegal acts. Why is this OK? All politics aside, why is it OK to do something like that?

I'm in total agreement with this. It'll be the downfall of society.

 

[Godkiller]

Getting rid of social media is authoritarian. Funny how people are against free speech now. The real problem is people like the think in extremes so much. It's not the internet or social media. It's people and the culture.

 

[Flash525]

Getting rid of social media is authoritarian. Funny how people are against free speech now. The real problem is people like the think in extremes so much. It's not the internet or social media. It's people and the culture.

Our culture has only become this way because of social media. I suppose to some degree we've always had it in us, but social media has allowed us to blow it up.

 

[Godkiller]

Our culture has only become this way because of social media. I suppose to some degree we've always had it in us, but social media has allowed us to blow it up.

Yes and no. Other countries don't use social media the same way. If there wasn't any social media, we would find another way to communicate. There is no turning back technology.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Here's the thing about making blanket statements like "people need to stop tweeting." Granted, the world WOULD be a better place if say, Donald Trump never tweeting again. And if Twitter actually followed its own rules, they would have banned his ass from it long before he ever became president for the copious amounts of racist, xenophobic, trollish and inciteful **** he has posted. I mean, the man literally called for a REVOLUTION when Obama won in 2012. And now he periodically threatens NUCLEAR WAR via tweet. They've banned people for far less. However, social media can also be used as a tool to show people what is really happening when the news media isn't doing its job. A good example is when the police showed up in Ferguson with tanks and military grade weapons to quell protestors, the news media largely didn't report on it until people started posting photos and videos on Twitter. THEN, the news outlets ran with the story. So while there are plenty of bad actors out there that give social media a bad name, the good CAN outweigh the bad.

 

[Doug_Moore]

The SJW's needed to lose one of their own before they could see how ridiculous and foolish they were behaving.

"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." - Saul Alinsky

 

[Godkiller]

The SJW's needed to lose one of their own before they could see how ridiculous and foolish they were behaving.

"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." - Saul Alinsky

This is mob mentality though. No different from "SJWs".

And in this case, Disney is the "SJW" so I don't know why people love to use that buzzword.

 

[TheVileOne]

SJWs or not, the whole PC culture war climate did make things like Gunn's tweets unacceptable. Whether they happened 10 years ago or not. If it was someone on the right-wing or conservative political spectrum, the same media outlets defending Gunn right now would be all over these tweets.

 

[Zarex]

This is mob mentality though. No different from "SJWs".

And in this case, Disney is the "SJW" so I don't know why people love to use that buzzword.

What I hate is that among certain types the title of Social Justice Warrior - like MLK and Ghandi - is now considered to be an insult. How dare people show a smidge of empathy for oppressed people! Sometimes it makes me uncomfortable!

 

[Zarex]

SJWs or not, the whole PC culture war climate did make things like Gunn's tweets unacceptable. Whether they happened 10 years ago or not. If it was someone on the right-wing or conservative political spectrum, the same media outlets defending Gunn right now would be all over these tweets.

Incorrect. Folks are supporting Gunn because he has disavowed those awful former "jokes" and has been an excellent contracted employee for the Mouse for six years and two extremely well received films. He has the support of his cast and crew and he is clearly a different fellow from the time when he posted shocking comments on the Twitter machine.

Decent people are able to forgive the moral failings of other, so long as they apologize and change their behavior. Donny Aaron and Josh Hader have disavowed their past racism and anti-semitism and are being supported in their efforts. Roseanne wasn't because she couldn't not be a nasty, vile person and her cast members didn't want to work with her. This has nothing to do with political affiliations,

 

[marcvader]

The extremist left and extremist right are tearing this country apart. The days of McCarthyism are becoming a thing again ironically being perpetrated by both sides.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Each side of the isle sees the other as evil and will justify each other as such. I don't believe 1 side is entirely right or 1 side is entirely wrong. What I hate about political discussions is each side "must" be right, which prevents the actual truth of any given issue to be revealed and squashes constructive conversation before it can begin. I am neither conservative nor am I liberal. I simply think of myself as trying to understand all points of view and judging things based on that particular issue.

 

[Godkiller]

SJWs or not, the whole PC culture war climate did make things like Gunn's tweets unacceptable. Whether they happened 10 years ago or not. If it was someone on the right-wing or conservative political spectrum, the same media outlets defending Gunn right now would be all over these tweets.

No they were always unacceptable depending on company policy. People have always been fired for saying inappropriate things.

What's really different now is visibility, awareness, and vocalization.

 

[Doug_Moore]

What I hate is that among certain types the title of Social Justice Warrior - like MLK and Ghandi - is now considered to be an insult. How dare people show a smidge of empathy for oppressed people! Sometimes it makes me uncomfortable!

MLK and Ghandi weren't offended by everything.