Comics Jean and the Phoenix Force

[HandOfFate]

It's just sad that the story got so convoluted.

Sooooooooooooooooooooo true. It's really sad that Jean has to suffer for this mess.

 

[Intheknow101]

You're assuming a little much with Storm thing there Intheknow. He didn't even reference her.

I apologize if he's not a Storm fan.

However, I think bringing up examples of how other X-Men have died and come back (Storm or Magneto in this case)--- some number wise even more than Jean or on par with her, is relevent in the sense that no one ever seems to complain that their favorite characters are brought back from the dead, yet it's some sin or mistake if Jean comes back. It's heavily biased.

 

[javon]

But I don't think they have big issues like Phoenix. Like her storyline as Phoenix is VERY popular. I just don't think it matters with storm and magneto seeing as how they didn't have a popular issue or storyline like Jean.

 

[Valechan]

Ororo only died with the rest of the X-Men (both in Fall of the mutants and the Secret Wars, the others were close to death, not dead), and they were all brought back to life within the same issue... so it's sooooooooooooo not the same.

Back to the topic at hand... The Phoenix Fans want you to see this like they do... they claim Phoenix is JEan and Jean is Phoenix and all that crap... thing is... they ara wrong!!!! There is another explanation that makes far more sense, that doesn't contradict any issues, that takes into account everything, from uncanny 101 to Endsong, and that clearly says taht Jean is merely a host of the Phoenix Force. That is the HAndbook version of the events... the one Marvel calls Official... so, HandofFAte, worry not... it was not JEan who killed all those people, it was a duplicate body of hers, inhabited by the Phoenix Force, which isn't her at all

 

[Abaddon]

It had her memories and personality. It was her.

 

[Cyclops]

Why do Storm fans come into Jean Fan threads? I really think these two opposing factions should finally get tired of trolling and flame-baiting each other and go nuts all over their favorite characters in their own threads, hence leaving each other alone.

 

[Valechan]

We like to bother each other... Jean fans burst into Storm threads and vice-versa... we're symbiotic... it's like Eddi Brock and Venom...

 

[Cyclops]

You're childish is what it is. All of you. Grow up and get over it already.

 

[Valechan]

The voice of maturity has spoken ladies and gents...

And what if we are? Why can't we? Besides, I'm not saying anything wrong... IntheKnow keeps telling us "Jean is Phoenix", yet Marvel keeps telling us "Not she is not", just because Phoenix fans don't like the Handbooks doesn't mean we all have to accept their word. Me, I prefer to believe the Handbooks

 

[Cyclops]

Well, if you're gonna come into a Jean thread and flamebait, don't cry foul when Jean fans go and do it to you.

 

[Valechan]

They did it first (do check the Storm thread), and I'm only responding to the original question of thread. HandofFate was upset about the whole "Jean is Phoenix Force" and here I tell him/her that it's not like that, that tons of people think otherwise, even Marvel seeing they print it with the word "official" in front and they post it in their website.

 

[Cyclops]

Believe me. I don't give a **** who does what first. God damn it I'm sounding like a moderator again.

 

[Abaddon]

Yes,you are.



you still have the cravings.

 

[Valechan]

The Moderating Force is calling to you... it is strong within you... you cannot deny your birthright...

 

[Cyclops]

Yeah, yeah, King of the Pride Lands, blah blah fight Jeremy Irons, blah, blah...

 

[javon]

Why do Storm fans come into Jean Fan threads?

I'm not trying to get smart or anything, but no offense, but last time I checked it said "Jean and the Phoenix Force". I didn't see anything that said "official discussion thread". And check in the "Storm thread" and we'll see who's in who's thread. One moment were just having a lovely time discussing Storm, then the next we see "Storm can't do this and that so stop saying she can and blah blah blah". But before someone complains about this being a Storm debate, i'll get back on topic by asking, can the Phoenix only inhabit telepaths?

 

[HandOfFate]

But before someone complains about this being a Storm debate, i'll get back on topic by asking, can the Phoenix only inhabit telepaths?

I don't think so. The Phoenix Force can make anybody a host, now how long the host will last is another question.

 

[Chasers1984(2)]

yet Marvel keeps telling us "Not she is not"

May I quote Phoenix Endsong (right after Jean RIPS the Phoenix out of Emma mind you).

Phoenix: Because you and I are one. (not a question but a statement)
Jean: Yes. (reaffirmation of said statement)


And then we have an example of Jean making the Phoenix her b***h by deciding it's actions.

Phoenix: I only came back because you wanted it.


And then we have Jean in the white phoenix getup being asked a question.

Scott: Who are you?
Jean: ... Jean Jean Grey


Mind you the events of Phoenix Endsong are more recent than the handbooks and so, by your logic Sebita, should be set in stone. After all it is Marvel blatantly saying that Jean and Phoenix are one. I completely understand though, if you don't want to accept that.

Oh and as a side note... I would like to point out the full page splash of Emma owning Ororo. Just making sure everyone saw that.

 

[HandOfFate]

Oh and as a side note... I would like to point out the full page splash of Emma owning Ororo. Just making sure everyone saw that.

Here we go again.

 

[toya thegr8]

The sooner everyone admits they like e-arguing the better. No one is the bigger person, not even CYCLOPS, nor Intheknow101 or Sebita, you're all playing into the energy. Meh, HandofFate is the only exception. Have fun, vent on the net just as long as you don't bottle up an start shooting you're co-workers and classmates.

I personally dun't know much about the Phoenix and Jean, since I'm relatively new and never was interested before. If someone is providing facts, I'd like to know about it/her/them?.

 

[Bastila]

May I quote Phoenix Endsong (right after Jean RIPS the Phoenix out of Emma mind you).

Phoenix: Because you and I are one. (not a question but a statement)
Jean: Yes. (reaffirmation of said statement)


And then we have an example of Jean making the Phoenix her b***h by deciding it's actions.

Phoenix: I only came back because you wanted it.

I love that bit of endsong, i love you wrote 'Jean making the Phoenix her B**** lol, i am never going to read that bit without laughing now lol.

 

[PSINGRAPHD]

Hmmm, let's see. Jean Grey IS Phoenix in the movie-verse, and amongst the general public, it's now the most popular source of X-Men mythology... by far! In the comics, AoA Jean IS Phoenix and I believe Ultimate Jean IS Phoenix as well. In X-Men Evo, the most recent animated adaption, Jean and Phoenix are shown to be one. In all the recent video games, it's alluded to that Jean IS Phoenix. So, IMHO, Endsong was done for the SOLE purpose of establishing in the 616 that yes, Jean in fact IS Phoenix. Streamlining the concept and disposing of the convoluted excess baggage was a logical decision. This makes it universal across the lines and creates a cohesive familiarity for new fans just getting to know the characters we've revered for years. Besides, the Phoenix persona, abilities, and imagery being an extension(or result?) of Jean's ever-evolving mutant powers is far more compelling than her being possessed by a friggin' cosmic bird! I mean REALLY!

 

[phoenixstorm]

Don't believe the retrocon bullcrap.

The marvel writers ruined Phoenix and ruined the character Jean Grey.

They can't leave well enough alone. A brilliant story of the Dark Phoenix saga has been reduced to a joke.

It doesn't even make sense that Jean would somehow be the phoenix for all times. The white hot rooms is such a pile of crap that I just fell off my sofa when I read it, laughing. The white hot room! My god.

Thanks for ruining one of my favorite characters and turning her into a joke, marvel.

I had hopes when Rachel became the new phoenix. It made sense her reaching out to claim the destructive power to use for good to redeem what her mother had done. Of course they ruined that too.

The phoenix has been a crutch for Jean as a character. It's really sad. Take away the phoneix and what is jean? If she lost her powers who would she be? exactly.

The writers invested in Storm. When she lost her power there was still a strong character to carry on and even lead the Xmen! She had skills and leadership qualities that still kept her in the forefront.

If Jean lost her powers then what? She'll go be somone's wife? Jean deserves better than that. Whats her story? Who is she if she has no power? Thats what I want to know.

Marvel Comics have ruined the Xmen especially Jean.

 

[PSINGRAPHD]

Seriously, whats the point of a freggin maryter if they DON'T STAY DEAD!

Be gone, hater! You are not welcome here! BTW there Jethro, it's spelled M-A-R-T-Y-R! The definition of which is as follows:

A person who sacrifices something of great value, even life itself, for the sake of principle.

Surly, illiterate, AND ignorant... a true triple threat you are! I'm all for people voicing their opinions, with tact and diplomacy mind you. Both of which you failed at... gloriously! Your motives were speculative at first, although I had my suspicions. Confirmation came from your sig, "Rolo lover" or whatever. Looks like you're taking a page from Sebita's tired book of how to be a trite, predictable, and obviously insecure Storm fan, LOL.

Geesh, Phoenix-envy knows no bounds these days! It must be due to Jean's rising-***-skyrocketing popularity amongst even casual X-fans.

 

[HandOfFate]

Originally Posted by spoon_jenkins on CBR

I think it's a shame that they've done so many retreads of Phoenix. To me, one of the great things about X-Men is the personalities of the characters. I like the Phoenix concept, but I think it's been overdone so much that I think Jean's character has been overshadowed by the concept. It's sad that she's been diminished where people tend to talk about the cosmic force rather than the person.

That's everything I have to say in a nutshell.

I really don't think a lot of you guys see the harm this has done Jean in the long run. It's going to be really hard to write her into the X-Men for a long period of time with the Pheonix Force. The best a writer can do is treat her like Rachel in Excalibur and give her a fraction of it's true power.