Comics Jean (without the Phoenix force) VS. Iceman

[javon]

Pretty random battle, but Iceman got stomped when somebody made a thread with Phoenix vs Iceman. So I was just wondering if Jean could still be able to hold her own against Iceman without the force backing her up.


They are both clones but hold no memories of who either person is, that way there is no emotional problems that would stop them from killing each other.

 

[04nbod]

definitely iceman

 

[The Weather God]

Hummmmmm

 

[HandOfFate]

Jean's telepathy give her the win.

 

[javon]

Can you say that again please? I didn't really understand that.

 

[Halcohol]

Jean's still a ridiculously strong psychic, and while Iceman might be physically pretty tough, his psyche's pretty vulnerable.

I'd have to give it to Jean, despite Iceman being really really awesome

 

[Nature's Rising]

Yeah. At first I thought that Jean is practically vulnerable to her water molecules being drained from her, but then wouldn't she read that already? Telepathy wins.

 

[Havok83]

Jean. She is a very powerful and SKILLED mutant without the Phoenix level powers. Iceman isnt as skilled in his powers and hasnt reached his potential and doesnt push himself to do so. Jean knows her powers inside and out and is capable of alot more. She wins hands down

 

[javon]

What do you mean skilled? As in various ways of using her powers? I don't know, I think Iceman has a lot less weight to carry since she doesn't have the force.

 

[ThePhoenixRises]

Jean

 

[Cyclops]

Phoenix fans disturb me almost as much as the fans of a certain other X-Lady, so I'll vote Iceman.

But don't you fans of a certain other X-Lady think that I'm taking "your side".

 

[ProfeZZor X]

C'mon Javon... You already know who I'm going with on this one.

But for sake of arguement for you Phoenix lovers, Iceman was hard to detect by Jean during the X-Men Forever story arc. Once he transmuted into his cold essence (or vapour), even she wasn't sure he was still in existence (NOTE: That visual page can be found in the Official Iceman thread). Another instance of his skill against a telepath, is when he slowed the blood flow to Emma's brain when she kept taunting him about his past. Another thing to remember is that despite their vast mental capabilities, they are still made of flesh and bones... Something that can easily be damaged by high water pressure or sub temperatures.

And mind you, without the Phoenix force, Jean is nowhere near the Omega skill level as Iceman is.

 

[Snikt 6]

Good points, but I still think Jean wins....easily. They are both skilled in their powers (Jean more than Bobby, after all these years it seems Bobby still does not know the true extent of his power), but remember - Bobby is a sucker for da ladies. Obviously for them both to battle to the death would be something huge, there is a part of Bobby that is still fascinated with Jean, with that moment of hesitation Jean would end the fight. Night night Iceman.

 

[Snikt 6]

Im not all that sure about the "Jean is nowhere near the Omega skill level as Iceman is". Remember Jean Grey is Omega, not just the Phoenix.

 

[Snikt 6]

Jean also has experience on her side......

 

[Snikt 6]

Once Bobby does learn the true extent of his powers.....then it will get interesting....

 

[Cyclops]

Well let's look at the starting stats for their Veteran versions, shall we?

Jean Grey's speed - 6 grounded. Average speed value.
Iceman's speed - 10 flight. Pretty quick.

Jean's attack - 7 with telekinesis. Ouch. Really low value.
Iceman's attack - 9. Significantly better. But still not too high.

Jean's defense - 16 with deflection. Iceman will have a tough time hitting her at range.
Iceman's defense - 16 with barrier. She's still got to roll high to hit him, plus he can set up blocking terrain in between them to keep her away.

Jean's damage - 1 with support. Doesn't hit very hard at all. And Support won't help her in battle.
Iceman's damage - 1 with ranged combat expert. If he hits at a range, it'll hurt.

Jean's range - 0. She needs an object to hurl at him to hit him from a range.
Iceman's range - 8. He can keep a good distance from her and fire away safely.

I think this fight's over, with Iceman on top.

 

[Snikt 6]

Very good info Cyclops, but those are just numbers.....when the mist clears, it would be Jean standing. Jean knows how to win and will do what is necessary to get the W, Bobby just does not have that, well, dominate attitude.

 

[Cyclops]

It entirely depends on the dice rolls, but with Iceman being almost twice as fast as Jean and having a massive range advantage over her, she'd never get close enough to hit him.

 

[hulkamania85]

Well let's look at the starting stats for their Veteran versions, shall we?

Jean Grey's speed - 6 grounded. Average speed value.
Iceman's speed - 10 flight. Pretty quick.

Jean's attack - 7 with telekinesis. Ouch. Really low value.
Iceman's attack - 9. Significantly better. But still not too high.

Jean's defense - 16 with deflection. Iceman will have a tough time hitting her at range.
Iceman's defense - 16 with barrier. She's still got to roll high to hit him, plus he can set up blocking terrain in between them to keep her away.

Jean's damage - 1 with support. Doesn't hit very hard at all. And Support won't help her in battle.
Iceman's damage - 1 with ranged combat expert. If he hits at a range, it'll hurt.

Jean's range - 0. She needs an object to hurl at him to hit him from a range.
Iceman's range - 8. He can keep a good distance from her and fire away safely.

I think this fight's over, with Iceman on top.

Halfway down I realized you were looking at Heroclix. Awesome game, but I was bummed Supernova sold out already. Hope it won't be too hard to get. I like this game and got back into it because of the new set distribution, but I hate hearing stuff like this and it makes me want to stick to VS.

In which case 6 drop Iceman would cream Jean Grey,Marvel Girl IIRC.

Now if we look at this via the Overpower CCG an interesting thing occurs...

Iceman (1st version):

Energy:7
Fighting:3
Strength:4

Jean Grey:
Energy:7
Fighting:4
Strength:3

Close call, depends on whether Jean Grey can pull out her level 9 strength Telekinesis attack before Iceman does his level 10 energy Blood Chill.

 

[X_fan08]

Jean tk is pretty strong and affects atoms no matter how much ice boy tries to reform because she can stop it . and tp is another advantage.

 

[Charlie No-One]

Jean. Telepathy could shut down his mind before he even thinks about doing anything to her. Also, her TK would also count for something.

 

[Phoenix342]

as far as jeans range couldnt she attack his body from miles away just focus on him and rip him apart by separating his molecules??? even without phoenix jean is still an omega, phoenix just give her cosmic powers not Tk or telepathy

 

[Halcohol]

as far as jeans range couldnt she attack his body from miles away just focus on him and rip him apart by separating his molecules??? even without phoenix jean is still an omega, phoenix just give her cosmic powers not Tk or telepathy

Yeah, but Bobby's an Omega level mutant too. By your same argument, Iceman could mentally lower Jean's temperature to absolute zero from really far away, too.

If either of these two actually lost control and hit the other with a full-power blast, the other would be annihilated. They're that powerful. I just think that Jean's worked harder to get closer to her potential, while Bobby hasn't made it a priority. She's stronger than he is, and therefore probably has a longer range.

 

[Havok83]

Yeah, but Bobby's an Omega level mutant too. By your same argument, Iceman could mentally lower Jean's temperature to absolute zero from really far away, too.

and that was the point I was trying to make when I mentioned Jean being skilled in her powers. Bobby doesnt know how to do that. He's capable of so much but has always tended to limit himself. He doesnt know how to use his powers effectively to their full potential. Jean does.