Comics Jean (without the Phoenix force) VS. Iceman

[Midnight Ice]

Iceman, no doubt. All points already stated are reason enough. Jean can't win a fight like this without the Pheonix force.

 

[javon]

I think she COULD win, but without the force, she has a very limited chance.

 

[ProfeZZor X]

Jean also has experience on her side......

Uh.... That would be a negative. Bobby was the second member next to Cyclops to be recruited on the original team. Therefore, had a little more danger room experience than she did. If you happen to have a reprint of Uncanny #1, you'd see that he displayed far more creativity with his powers before, during and after their mission to defeat Magneto.

The only thing that holds him back from being an omni-potent being is his own insecurities and lack of discipline. Outside of that, he's still displayed some incredible feats... Especially for being the youngest member of the team.

 

[javon]

^Which is why I'm saying that Iceman shouldn't be doubted so quickly. Whoever does win, that still doesn't mean that the other person won't give them a run for their money.

 

[X_fan08]

i thought jean was the first x-man when she first got her tp powers

 

[ProfeZZor X]

i thought jean was the first x-man when she first got her tp powers

Negative... we're not talking about the movie Jean. In the comics, Jean was the LAST one to be recruited. She may have used her powers before she joined, but that doesn't mean Iceman didn't either. In fact, he was somewhat comfortable using them before he joined the team as well. No one really knows why he holds back, because no one has really touched on that subject. Although I think his father's years of bigotry towards mutants, and other ethnicities had a lot to do with it.

They've made up and settled their differences since then though...

 

[rabidfanboy]

Um, actually Jean Grey was Xavier's first student. She might have been the last to be recruited onto the actual X-Men team, but she was the first trained by him. In X-Men 53 she even states "He took me under his care from the time I first began to manifest my powers."

Let's also not forget that Phoenix powers or not, Jean is still an omega mutant as well.

 

[Snikt 6]

Uh.... That would be a negative. Bobby was the second member next to Cyclops to be recruited on the original team. Therefore, had a little more danger room experience than she did. If you happen to have a reprint of Uncanny #1, you'd see that he displayed far more creativity with his powers before, during and after their mission to defeat Magneto.

The only thing that holds him back from being an omni-potent being is his own insecurities and lack of discipline. Outside of that, he's still displayed some incredible feats... Especially for being the youngest member of the team.

Good points...but....when I talk experience I am talking more than Danger room sessions. Jean has gone through the Phoenix stuff, she has been an active member of the X-Men more than Iceman and she has been in Cyclops' head - for a very long time. She knows what he knows - and in battle situations I think we would all agree Scott is a far better at strategy.

 

[Snikt 6]

Um, actually Jean Grey was Xavier's first student. She might have been the last to be recruited onto the actual X-Men team, but she was the first trained by him. In X-Men 53 she even states "He took me under his care from the time I first began to manifest my powers."

Let's also not forget that Phoenix powers or not, Jean is still an omega mutant as well.

Yep, she was one of his first students - before the X-Men actually formed. I couldn't recall the issue that stated that, so thanks!

 

[javon]

Which issue says that she's still omega without the Phoenix Force?

 

[phoenix_force]

they are both omegas
but Jean would have the upper hand
more experience
plus she can surpise him iceman wont be able to predict what she'll do
but she will by her telepathy know every move before he does it and defend herself
hands down jean wins

 

[Phoenix342]

Which issue says that she's still omega without the Phoenix Force?

Sorry dont really memorize every comic i read but i know that i remeber her and charles talking about her powers and it pretty much said that but i cant be positive but i know ive heard that before

 

[javon]

Oki doki, just wanted to know

 

[PhoenixForce]

Jean will only use her telepathy if she has permission. If Iceman was stupid enough to give her permission, then she'd defiantly win. Even with Jean just using her telekinesis she can stop Iceman's ice, but Iceman can't stop Jean's telekinesis. So, Jean Grey.

 

[BrianWilly]

I say Iceman. Even with the telepathy, without the Phoenix Force it'd be very hard for her to really hurt him, whereas it'd be really easy for him to hurt her. Just lower the temperature in the room a few dozen degrees -- something she can't protect herself against with TK barriers -- and watch her brain slow down.

 

[javon]

Jean will only use her telepathy if she has permission. If Iceman was stupid enough to give her permission, then she'd defiantly win. Even with Jean just using her telekinesis she can stop Iceman's ice, but Iceman can't stop Jean's telekinesis. So, Jean Grey.

Well Iceman in his Ice form could easily escape her telekinesis. And he could easily freeze her brain as easily as he did Emma. I say Iceman 8/10

 

[rabidfanboy]

Jean's used her telekinesis to shield herself from extreme colds before, so it wouldn't be as easy as when he chilled Emma.

I wonder if Jean would be able to separate Bobby from all the water molecules in the air around him using her tk as well...

 

[javon]

Jean's used her telekinesis to shield herself from extreme colds before, so it wouldn't be as easy as when he chilled Emma.

Which issue? And I'm pretty sure Iceman could lower the temperature INSIDE the bubble, or inside her body.

I wonder if Jean would be able to separate Bobby from all the water molecules in the air around him using her tk as well...

If she is able to actually see those molecules, then mabe...

 

[BrianWilly]

Yeah, her ability to manipulate things with her TK on a molecular level is pretty specifically tied to the emergence of the Phoenix in her. Without it, I've never seen her do anything like that.

 

[rabidfanboy]

I don't think you grasp the concept of her tk. If she puts up a shield nothing is getting through it or affecting her inside it.

And she doesn't have to see the molecules to separate them from Bobby. All she has to do is surround him in a tk shield. It's all the same concept as when the Invisible Woman put up a force field around Jean and stopped her from being able to affect objects outside of it.

[edit] I'm not talking about manipulating them, but just putting up a barrier between him and them. She's been able to contain atmospheres within her tk without her Phoenix level powers.

 

[BrianWilly]

I have never seen Jean able to shield herself from temperature. If a room gets cold to the point of freezing everything, how do TK shields protect her from that?

 

[rabidfanboy]

X-Men 43 she created a tk atmospheric sheath to protect herself from the harshness of space. I don't see why she couldn't do the same thing again to protect herself from dropping temperatures.

Even though it was during the Phoenix saga, she also did it on Muir Island to protect herself from the cold. It was stated as her using her "telekinetic talent to manipulate her body's metabolic levels and counteract the cold." Without her Phoenix levels her tk is still extremely high. She isn't called a "Major-League psi" for nothin'.

 

[Snikt 6]

^ Yep, good stuff. That's one reason why Jean would win. She could protect herself from Bobby's powers. Bobby...not so much.

 

[javon]

Umm...Bobby surely could. I'm pretty sure Jeans powers couldn't harm him in mist form. Her telepathy even has a positively doubtful disadvantage.

I don't think you grasp the concept of her tk. If she puts up a shield nothing is getting through it or affecting her inside it.

Oh I "grasp" it alright. Are you telling me, that if Jean put a field around herself, Iceman COULD NOT drop the temperature inside the shield, therefore effect her with that?

And she doesn't have to see the molecules to separate them from Bobby. All she has to do is surround him in a tk shield. It's all the same concept as when the Invisible Woman put up a force field around Jean and stopped her from being able to affect objects outside of it.

Oooh, what issue was that?t: If she were to put a forcefield around Bobby, I'm pretty surehe could escape it. Their are lot's of ways for him to bend with the water to travel in some kind of way. I'm no expert at Iceman, you'd have to ask Profezzor X.

[edit] I'm not talking about manipulating them, but just putting up a barrier between him and them. She's been able to contain atmospheres within her tk without her Phoenix level powers.

What do you mean "contain atmospheres" with a TK field?

Originally posted by rapidfanboy
X-Men 43 she created a tk atmospheric sheath to protect herself from the harshness of space. I don't see why she couldn't do the same thing again to protect herself from dropping temperatures.

Well I'm guessing that was outside of her body. He could still do it from the inside.

Even though it was during the Phoenix saga, she also did it on Muir Island to protect herself from the cold.

My statement still stands ^^

It was stated as her using her "telekinetic talent to manipulate her body's metabolic levels and counteract the cold."

Iceman could lower her body temp to sub-zero levels...unless her bizzare application of telekinesis can still handle that?

Without her Phoenix levels her tk is still extremely high. She isn't called a "Major-League psi" for nothin'.

True. But that sill doesn't mean Iceman won't give her a run for her money .

 

[Cyclops]

Javon, you surely know by now that Jean as well as certain others is one of those "fanboy aura" characters. You know, the kind of character who is attributed absolute invincibility and indomintable combat skills by their fanboys.

As far as Jean's fans go, Jean cannot be defeated by anything, ever, and she would shake off any threat as easily as one shakes off a thin layer of snow.