Action-Adventure John Wick: Chapter 4

[Pennywise]

Bought all four films on digital, and looking forward to watching them all together!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It’s the new Fast and Furious franchise complete with spin-offs. The only way to stop it is when it stops being as lucrative as it is.

This is an insult to the quality of craftsmanship involved with Wick.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I feel like Lionsgate did come to that decision too fast. I mean, how do they top chapter 4?

Diminishing returns is almost guaranteed, after this last film.

I was interested in Ballerina - but knowing Len Wiseman is directing it has taken the wind out of my sails.

Diminishing returns is almost guaranteed, after this last film.

I was interested in Ballerina - but knowing Len Wiseman is directing it has taken the wind out of my sails.

This has been the refrain since the first flick hit. There hasn't been diminishing returns yet, why assume there will be going forward? Not enough trust in those that made these films in the first place.

I'd also note, there was originally suppose to be 5 movies. They have ideas.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

This has been the refrain since the first flick hit. There hasn't been diminishing returns yet, why assume there will be going forward?

So, we're supposed to wait for a lackluster sequel to exist, then we can stop?

Yeah, that's how I want my favourite series' to end.

 

[Gothamsknight]

This has been the refrain since the first flick hit. There hasn't been diminishing returns yet, why assume there will be going forward? Not enough trust in those that made these films in the first place.

I'd also note, there was originally suppose to be 5 movies. They have ideas.

I have total faith in Chad, Keanu and everybody involved. My thing is that if we are getting a 5th film, then my hope is that it's because Chad feels there's more to the story. If that's the case, I'm hyped.

 

[Still Wynning]

Since I didn’t post my review and haven’t made it clear yet, I watched this for the first time at home a couple of days ago, and I freaking loved it. Probably my second favorite of the series.

The best action that we’ve gotten in the series so far. The dragon’s breath sequence was probably one of my favorite parts of the film. Also, yes to stairs and Justice. Donnie Yen as Caine absolutely stole the show for me.

A fitting end for the character if they decide to go that route, but, looking at headlines, it looks like they’re going to make more. They haven’t steered us wrong yet, so I trust them to do whatever they want to do with this series.

I would post more, but I am in a lot of pain right now and can’t afford to exacerbate that. But I’ll just say that what ever compliments you guys gave to this is what I also probably think about it.

Really quickly, if I had to rank them:

– JW 1
– JW 4
(The next two are kind of interchangeable for me. That doesn’t speak to their quality. They’re both great.)
– JW 3
– JW 2

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So, we're supposed to wait for a lackluster sequel to exist, then we can stop?

Yeah, that's how I want my favourite series' to end.

The assumption that there will be a lackluster sequel... why? Even if John Wick 5 isn't as good as 4, but say is only as good as 2 or 3, would that mean they've ruined something? This is like saying RotJ ruined something because it wasn't as good as Empire. They didn't need stop LotR because they never touched the quality of Fellowship after.

We are seeing a pair of arguments used here (diminishing returns and lackluster) which are not the same thing. I heard for decades how Toy Story had to end with each film. They couldn't top it. Now while 4 is my favorite, I can understand people thinking it isn't the best. But it's really hard to argue that 4 doesn't live up to the Toy Story franchise in terms of quality.

I do not know how getting another film in an all time franchise at the peak of it's powers, is now a bad thing.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I have total faith in Chad, Keanu and everybody involved. My thing is that if we are getting a 5th film, then my hope is that it's because Chad feels there's more to the story. If that's the case, I'm hyped.

That's why I'm worried. Chad and Keanu haven't said we're getting a 5th film - Lionsgate has.

If that's not a sure-fire sign of concern, I don't know what is. Because when a studio is the one dictating the story continues, rather than the creative forces, it's usually not a good thing.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

But it's really hard to argue that Toy Story 4 doesn't live up to the Toy Story franchise in terms of quality.

Oh, I could make that argument with its writing, absolutely.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I actually felt like Toy Story 4 felt more like a fitting epilogue to the first 3. Perhaps that's what Chapter 5 could be like.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh, I could make that argument with its writing, absolutely.

You could, and then I'd argue the exact opposite. But alas, why did you ignore the rest of the point?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's why I'm worried. Chad and Keanu haven't said we're getting a 5th film - Lionsgate has.

If that's not a sure-fire sign of concern, I don't know what is. Because when a studio is the one dictating the story continues, rather than the creative forces, it's usually not a good thing.

You're right. You know what they're going to recast Keanu with KJ Appa and Uwe Boll will be taking over in the director's chair.

There is so much assuming here. So much.

 

[Sithborg]

Thats EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. Milking this thing until it becomes a parody of itself. Chapter 4 was such masterful ending to the saga, I want it to end on a high note. But we cant just leave well enough alone anymore these days.

Chapter 4 was great, make no mistake. But "masterful end", I wouldn't go so far. It did not feel like an ending. And honestly, as much as I love it, I do not think it is setting up some unachievable bar for a sequel.

And honestly, if you didn't think this was going to get greenlit after that box office, you are being silly. Now, we may get a bit of a larger break, but I think that will be fine, what with spin offs available.

After watching this film, I think I have another new celebrity crush.

Her music videos do not dissuade from the crush.

 

[Still Wynning]

Her music videos do not dissuade from the crush.

Duly noted. Will check them out.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Since I didn’t post my review and haven’t made it clear yet, I watched this for the first time at home a couple of days ago, and I freaking loved it. Probably my second favorite of the series.

The best action that we’ve gotten in the series so far. The dragon’s breath sequence was probably one of my favorite parts of the film. Also, yes to stairs and Justice. Donnie Yen as Caine absolutely stole the show for me.

A fitting end for the character if they decide to go that route, but, looking at headlines, it looks like they’re going to make more. They haven’t steered us wrong yet, so I trust them to do whatever they want to do with this series.

I would post more, but I am in a lot of pain right now and can’t afford to exacerbate that. But I’ll just say that what ever compliments you guys gave to this is what I also probably think about it.

Really quickly, if I had to rank them:

– JW 1
– JW 4
(The next two are kind of interchangeable for me. That doesn’t speak to their quality. They’re both great.)
– JW 3
– JW 2

For me its

JW 4
JW 3
JW 1
JW 2

I love this franchise so much.

 

[kguillou]

The assumption that there will be a lackluster sequel... why? Even if John Wick 5 isn't as good as 4, but say is only as good as 2 or 3, would that mean they've ruined something? This is like saying RotJ ruined something because it wasn't as good as Empire. They didn't need stop LotR because they never touched the quality of Fellowship after.

We are seeing a pair of arguments used here (diminishing returns and lackluster) which are not the same thing. I heard for decades how Toy Story had to end with each film. They couldn't top it. Now while 4 is my favorite, I can understand people thinking it isn't the best. But it's really hard to argue that 4 doesn't live up to the Toy Story franchise in terms of quality.

I do not know how getting another film in an all time franchise at the peak of it's powers, is now a bad thing.

I think, Darth, a lot of people, myself included have just grown cynical with Hollywood and how they pimp out franchises until they're hollow corpses of their prior selves. People like the notion of a film series having a defined beginning, middle and end, something that tells a story and not something that just drones on aimlessly.

Now, you are absolutely right, the creators of this franchise have shown they know what they are doing and deserve the benefit of doubt that they can pull off a 5th film on par with the quality of the rest. But what will then stop Lionsgate from doing a 6th and 7th and so on? When does the story reach its conclusion? I know you love Toy Story 4 so no disrespect but a LOT of people feel like that series should've ended with 3 which really was one of the most perfect "part 3's" I've ever seen. Now we're getting a fifth one because Lightyear tanked and Disney's starting to get desperate for blockbusters with Star Wars and the MCU burning out. I dont want money to be the motivating factor in greenlighting these movies. To bring it back to Wick, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt if theyre truly moving forward with 5 but I really felt the 4th installment put a really nice button on the character and his journey since the first film. If they bring him back from the dead, whats his motivation going forward?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Chapter 4 was great, make no mistake. But "masterful end", I wouldn't go so far. It did not feel like an ending. And honestly, as much as I love it, I do not think it is setting up some unachievable bar for a sequel.

The last act is so obvious in it's setup, I'm confused why people think chapter 4 is the end, outside of what feels like an obvious fake out. The dialogue is intentional. What we see, is intentional.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think, Darth, a lot of people, myself included have just grown cynical with Hollywood and how they pimp out franchises until they're hollow corpses of their prior selves. People like the notion of a film series having a defined beginning, middle and end, something that tells a story and not something that just drones on aimlessly.

Now, you are absolutely right, the creators of this franchise have shown they know what they are doing and deserve the benefit of doubt that they can pull off a 5th film on par with the quality of the rest. But what will then stop Lionsgate from doing a 6th and 7th and so on? When does the story reach its conclusion? I know you love Toy Story 4 so no disrespect but a LOT of people feel like that series should've ended with 3 which really was one of the most perfect "part 3's" I've ever seen. Now we're getting a fifth one because Lightyear tanked and Disney's starting to get desperate for blockbusters with Star Wars and the MCU burning out. I dont want money to be the motivating factor in greenlighting these movies. To bring it back to Wick, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt if theyre truly moving forward with 5 but I really felt the 4th installment put a really nice button on the character and his journey since the first film. If they bring him back from the dead, whats his motivation going forward?

All big studio movies are motivated by money. If you have a problem with that, do not watch any film from a major studio. Apple and to an extent A24 are the only ones doing it for the passion.

Who says a 6th and 7th wouldn't be good?

People personalize Toy Story, without realizing each passing movie isn't for them. It's about new kids. For as much as I hear about the love for Toy Story 3, it boggles my mind how many people don't seem to understand it. Especially the beloved ending. The whole point of moving on from Andy, is to pass the torch. The films, like the toys, are passed on to a new generation.



So why would any fan of Toy Story 3, outside of wanting your own personal ending for something, argue that Toy Story "should end"? You never have to watch another Toy Story. You can drive off in your grow person vehicle, and leave the franchise to new kids.

As for Toy Story 4. It is a a beautiful tale on the concept of what it means to be alive and have purpose beyond that assigned to you. Trash can become a toy and toy can become a person, that can live beyond the role society gives to them.

 

[DyeLorean]

The last act is so obvious in it's setup, I'm confused why people think chapter 4 is the end.

Because Chad and Keanu have stated that they envisioned it as a definitive end.


"We had the opportunity [to do another film] because of the audience [response to] Chapter Three, and we were like, 'What was the Why?'" Reeves explained. "And when Chad and I was talking, the Why? was death — and it was John Wick's death.

"For him to get his peace, or freedom, in a way... that was the reason to make the movie. It can't just be, 'Let's do another one'. It was really about death, or a way of dying.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I dont think Chapter 5 is necessary, but I won't complain it's coming by that same token. These films have been great so far, so as long as they keep it up, keep going.

As for Toy Story 4, I liked it, but I didn't love it. Didn't hit me the way 3 did, and I haven't had the urge to rewatch it since it came out. Even though I liked it. But for me, it was kind of forgettable. I just didn't care about the toys as much with Bonnie as I did with Andy. I hope Chapter 5 is better than that, but I trust the track record at this stage

 

[kguillou]

Because Chad and Keanu have stated that they envisioned it as a definitive end.


"We had the opportunity [to do another film] because of the audience [response to] Chapter Three, and we were like, 'What was the Why?'" Reeves explained. "And when Chad and I was talking, the Why? was death — and it was John Wick's death.

"For him to get his peace, or freedom, in a way... that was the reason to make the movie. It can't just be, 'Let's do another one'. It was really about death, or a way of dying.

Boom there you have it. In my opinion I thought it was pretty obvious that John limping on those steps, thinking about his wife-you know, his whole driving force behind his 4 movie crusade-- uttering her name one last time and then collapsing was obviously meant to be the end of John's story and not a "tune in next week!" ending.

Of course, they left a little artistic wiggle room in there, we dont see his dead rotting corpse in a coffin or anything, of course there's some ambiguity but come one...how can anyone argue that that wasnt intended to be the death of the character? John was never going to ride out in the sunset, the man wanted his "freedom' and to be with his wife and always had and thats what he got. The ending doesnt get more poignant than that. That's why I think revers engineering that ending to be a "gotcha! he's alive!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because Chad and Keanu have stated that they envisioned it as a definitive end.


"We had the opportunity [to do another film] because of the audience [response to] Chapter Three, and we were like, 'What was the Why?'" Reeves explained. "And when Chad and I was talking, the Why? was death — and it was John Wick's death.

"For him to get his peace, or freedom, in a way... that was the reason to make the movie. It can't just be, 'Let's do another one'. It was really about death, or a way of dying.

Chad, with actual sourcing:

"If There's A Way": Chad Stahelski Explains His Condition For Directing John Wick 5

I would try to do different lighting, I would try to do different worlds. You keep trying. And I think I'd find great interest and satisfaction in that. I just haven't thought of it yet. So to answer your question, yes. If something pops in and it works, yeah, I'd love to do it. If I could crack any of those stories that we mentioned, I'd love to.

His only condition has been the same one he has mentioned before. The story has to be right. And as he's said in the past everyone of these feels like the end until him and Keanu meet up and they start coming up with ideas.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Boom there you have it. In my opinion I thought it was pretty obvious that John limping on those steps, thinking about his wife-you know, his whole driving force behind his 4 movie crusade-- uttering her name one last time and then collapsing was obviously meant to be the end of John's story and not a "tune in next week!" ending.

Of course, they left a little wiggle room in there, we dont see his dead rotting corpse in a coffin or anything but come one...how can anyone argue that that wasnt intended to be the death of the character? John was never going to ride out in the sunset, the man wanted his "freedom' and to be with his wife and always had and thats what he got. The ending doesnt get more poignant than that.

Because we've seen death in John Wick. It doesn't look like John's. He says to take him "home". As the Marquis tells him, if he wins, he'll have his freedom. But he won't take it. It's the relationship we see between the three old friends in the movie. It's the premise of the series. It is loyalty, love that tie these killers to killing. What makes them do it. John can only "live" after he's "died". It's why Caine emphasizes it. He'll live, for a while. And then he'll be back. Because that's what the Baba Yaga does. And as long as the Table exists, the Baba Yaga will. Because he's the one who's going to kill everyone.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Chapter Five is on its way. More John Wick incoming...

 

[flickchick85]

I’m easy. I was totally good with this ending, but I’m good for more too. I don’t think the ending was “definitive” enough to make this feel like a retcon.