Joker 'JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX' (Phillips and Phoenix return for the sequel) General News & Discussion Thread

[BobJM]

How is it reasonable coming after a movie that did 1.1 billion dollars? Even if the budget was 50 million dollars like in the first film it would barely see some profit.

But at least there'd be a profit

Surely Phoenix & Gaga didn't cost the extra $150 million that inflated the sequel's budget, so I am wondering where the money went. As people are complaining; it's not a flashy film, and there's only maybe 3-4 different set locations.

 

[psylockolussus]

The marvels with better marketing and without the strike would have made more money. Could have still flop but would have cost the studio less.

Most of the mcu movies after endgame have been hits,not missess when it comes to box office and on average most got positive rt scores from critics and audiences. So deadpool saying the mcu has been miss after miss is just copying what certain youtubers(grifters) was saying and of course they are wrong.Then you have nicepool who disagree with deadpool. Let's keep it mind from phase 1 to 3 projects like ironfist and inhumans came out and folks even back then talking about comicbook fatigue and marvel is losing it's touch etc.. and that non-sense and of course that was not the case. Most mcu multiverse projects in phase 4 and 5 have been successful,from the last spiderman mcu movie,to doctor strange 2,to loki seasons 1 and 2,what if and deadpool and wolverine all done well. The only multiverse project to flop and get a rotten critic score (audience scores was really high but the cinemascore was a B)and to flop was ant-man 3 and even that made it's money back later that year after it left the big screen. Most of phase 4 and 5 are not multiverse projects anyway just like most projects from phase 1 to 3 were not dealing with the infinity stones. Most of the marvels movie is not multiverse and when they did show it was a end credit scene.

I still think calling the movie as Captain Marvel 2 and releasing it earlier, like halfway in 2021, would have made a difference. I feel like with so many projects from Marvel from 2021 to 2023, it just didn't stand out and people were simply not just interested, when it was time for Captain Marvel to get the spotlight.

Imagine if we got that movie in July to November 2021 (before No way Home), it wouldn't have grossed just 204 million worldwide. A May 2022 summer release would have been better as well. Poor timing.

 

[mace1]

Edited above.

I still think calling the movie as Captain Marvel 2 and releasing it earlier, like halfway in 2021, would have made a difference. I feel like with so many projects from Marvel from 2021 to 2023, it just didn't stand out and people were simply not just interested, when it was time for Captain Marvel to get the spotlight.

Imagine if we got that movie in July to November 2021 (before No way Home), it wouldn't have grossed just 204 million worldwide. A May 2022 summer release would have been better as well. Poor timing.

Of course all movies,dc,marvel and others box office would be higher if the momentum was not interrupt by covid,current streaming,strikes,china,russia etc.
Reviews and rt scores for ant-man 3,the marvels,joker 2,eternals play a part too.
Note-for the marvels the critic and audience scores were positive and for eternals and ant-man 3 the audience scores on rt were positive but all these 3 mcu movies got a B cinemascore while joker got a D cinemascore.

 

[psylockolussus]

Edited above.

of course all movies,dc,marvel and others box office would be higher if the momentum was not interrupt by covid,current streaming,china,russia etc.

I didn't even say anything about covid, current streaming and those two countries.

My point was Marvel Studios released more than a dozen of projects from 2021 to 2023, and when Captain Marvel finally got a sequel, the public interest wasn't there anymore for Captain Marvel, since it was the 10th MCU movie (and maybe project #20 if we include all Disney+ projects) since the start of the Multiverse Saga. If it was released much earlier, it wouldn't have flopped the way it did, especially Captain Marvel was on Endgame.

 

[mace1]

I didn't even say anything about covid, current streaming and those two countries.

My point was Marvel Studios released more than a dozen of projects from 2021 to 2023, and when Captain Marvel finally got a sequel, the public interest wasn't there anymore for Captain Marvel, since it was the 10th MCU movie (and maybe project #20 if we include all Disney+ projects) since the start of the Multiverse Saga. If it was released much earlier, it wouldn't have flopped the way it did, especially Captain Marvel was on Endgame.

Well 4 mcu movies came out in 2021 and none in 2020 because of covid. Marvel studios was suppose start doing 3 or 4 movies a year i think starting 2020, so the marvels would have come out around 2022.
So that's close to 2021.
It was suppose come out somewhere mid 2023 and that did not work out.
Some Folks forget that movies were push back,delayed,rearranged etc...
All mcu movies would have been on time if it was not for covid,strikes and messing up the momentum.
Since 4 mcu movies did come out in 2021 instead of 2020 one of those movies would have to be delayed if the marvels was playing in 2021 instead.



There is a reason why it was not called captain marvel 2 and it was called the marvels instead. It is a team movie, of course making a movie called captain marvel 2 would have made more since the first one made alot of money. So the movie is not captain marvel 2 just like deadpool and wolverine is not deadpool 3 and batman v superman is not man of steel 2.

Here is what happen.


The Marvels
The Marvels is a 2023 American superhero film based on Marvel Comics. Produced by Marvel Studios and distributed by Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures, it is the sequel to the film Captain Marvel (2019), a continuation of the television miniseries Ms. Marvel (2022), and the 33rd film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU).


Production Development
The film was expected to be set in the present day, and was aiming for a 2022 release. In April 2020, Disney scheduled the film for release on July 8, 2022, filling the July 2022 date that the studio had previously reserved for an untitled Marvel film.

Pre-production
Matt Webb Mitovich at TVLine speculated that Marvel intended for The Marvels to be set before Secret Invasion, given that film had numerous previous release dates prior to Secret Invasion's June 2023 premiere, but that assumption "still leaves continuity issues all over the place".


Filming
In April 2022, the film's release was moved to July 28, 2023, swapping places with Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, as that film was further along in production.
Filming of The Marvels wrapped by the middle of the following month.

Post-production
In February 2023, the film's release was delayed to November 10, 2023, as Disney and Marvel Studios were re-evaluating their content output and costs. This allowed more time for post-production. Joanna Robinson of The Ringer reported in April that the film was undergoing a "massive overhaul" and reshoots, which took place for four weeks to reportedly make the storyline coherent.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe faces a big test as the shifting movie release calendar disrupts its meticulous story planning

The MCU is the franchise most disrupted by the shifting theatrical release calendar, but also most likely to overcome challenges at the box office.

www.businessinsider.com

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/26/media/delayed-movies-coronavirus-2020/index.html

And for other movies upcoming.

‘Thunderbolts’, ‘Blade’, ‘Avengers: Kang Dynasty’, ‘Secret Wars’ Among Disney Release Date Changes Due To WGA Strike

Disney has just made a slew of release date changes, many due to the impact of the WGA Strike and screenplays not being ready and productions paused.

deadline.com

 

[mace1]

Inside the ‘Joker: Folie à Deux’ Debacle: Todd Phillips ‘Wanted Nothing to Do’ With DC on the $200 Million Misfire

Todd Phillips “wanted nothing to do with DC” during the making of the film and refused to test screen the $200 million comic book sequel.

variety.com

 

[emc5466]

Jeez, what an embarrassment. I don’t understand how the WBD board doesn’t clean house after this. Zaslav, De Luca and Abdy should be shown the door.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

But at least there'd be a profit

Surely Phoenix & Gaga didn't cost the extra $150 million that inflated the sequel's budget, so I am wondering where the money went. As people are complaining; it's not a flashy film, and there's only maybe 3-4 different set locations.

How much did they pay for song rights?

 

[Lily Adler]

Spoiler

Sorry, but there's no functional way you can connect Joker Folie a Deux to other movies. Barry Keoghan is even younger than Robert Pattinson.

To me the ending to the movie was dumb. I get what they are going for but it also makes no sense.

It was never intended to connect to any other Batman movies.

Spoiler

wait, people actually believe this is supposed to lead into one of the other Batman franchises?? Come on now. If anything, it was a little homage to Ledger, but I think even that is a stretch. I don’t think the guy at the end is supposed to be any particular version of Joker from the past

Spoiler

Phillips knew what he was doing by trying to add the glasglow smile in the original ending and the inmate in this one. Pure fanservice to elevate something that's not good.

 

[Lily Adler]

How much did they pay for song rights?

Do not be surprised the songs used here and Harlequin are owned by WBD or that they hold music rights.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Jeez, what an embarrassment. I don’t understand how the WBD board doesn’t clean house after this. Zaslav, De Luca and Abdy should be shown the door.

They'll all say that this truly started under Toby Emmerich's tenure. Plus, they just had a win with Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.

But, they'll definitely be on shaky ground moving forward.

 

[Frodo]

Well, in terms of DC, it's basically on Superman .

On the one hand ,there's nowhere but up from the last series of box office stinkers Black Adam, Shazam ! Fury Of The Gods, The Flash, Blue Beetle, Aquaman 2 , and Joker 2,

On the other hand, it's means the pressure , fair or not, is on Superman to deliver.

It can't be another polarizing , mixed to negative, DC product.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

A sequel to Joker should have had an $80 million budget, tops. A modest increase from the last one at best.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Does anyone really see this as a DC project at this point though? They really had nothing to do with it, and even the movie is like, “I’m NOT what you want me to be.”

This is closer in category to Megalopolis or Horizon than say Aquaman 2 or The Flash.

 

[Filmfreak]

Does anyone really see this as a DC project at this point though? They really had nothing to do with it, and even the movie is like, “I’m NOT what you want me to be.”

This is closer in category to Megalopolis or Horizon than say Aquaman 2 or The Flash.

In terms of how it turned out to be as a film and in box office performance I think you are correct. The difference is those other films you mention were passion projects for the directors involved who were the driving force behind them (hence the self funding). Phillips seems to have had full autonomy, yes, and the film has zero connections to other DC movies, but it simply exists because WB pressured him to do it. It's a movie that would have existed without him, even though it would have been completely different. I'm sure the studio looks at it as a failed franchise of a popular brand because that's what they pushed this to be.

 

[mace1]

Getting back to this.

Joker: Folie à Deux
As of October 7, 2024, Joker: Folie à Deux has grossed $39.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $77 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $116.5 million.Variety estimated that the film would need to gross $450 million in order to break even.

The Marvels
The Marvels grossed $84.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $121.6 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $206.1 million. It is the first box-office bomb and the lowest-grossing film of the MCU franchise,falling short of an estimated break-even point of $439.6 million.
Deadline Hollywood calculated the net losses of the film to be $237 million, when factoring together expenses and revenues.
Source wikipedia

It looks like joker 2 will lose more money then the marvels.

 

[antsman41]

…think there’s more going on in this than the first.

Gaga was cookin’ // yet feels like she got short shifted with edits.

Honestly might be the most logical intention for being a musical.

Don’t get why Bullock was a prisoner at Arkham though.

4/5

 

[redfirebird2008]

What a mess. The Joker character deserves a better effort from the movie studio.

 

[Filmfreak]

Getting back to this.

Joker: Folie à Deux
As of October 7, 2024, Joker: Folie à Deux has grossed $39.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $77 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $116.5 million.Variety estimated that the film would need to gross $450 million in order to break even.

The Marvels
The Marvels grossed $84.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $121.6 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $206.1 million. It is the first box-office bomb and the lowest-grossing film of the MCU franchise,falling short of an estimated break-even point of $439.6 million.
Deadline Hollywood calculated the net losses of the film to be $237 million, when factoring together expenses and revenues.
Source wikipedia

It looks like joker 2 will lose more money then the marvels.

Probably not. The Marvels has an even higher budget at 220 million and an even lower opening weekend worldwide at 110 million. But it seems they won't be that far off.

Also the article saying that it was the first MCU bomb is funny. Taking out all movies released during the pandemic, Quantumania still exists.

 

[antsman41]

It’s kind of crazy how these are the complimentary films to Zombie’s Halloween/Halloween II.

 

[DCDAVE]

If the rumors are true about Todd Phillips and him not working with Gunn and company, I am in favor of scrapping the Elseworlds division and turning the mess into Reeves Batman universe. Reeves seems to be willing to work with James and the grounded Batman world has been successful two projects in. Give me a grounded GCPD show, Arkham show, and Cat Woman heist series. That can lead into the 3rd movie. I am backing off my Pattinson in the DCU stand. Bring in a DCU Batman with high tech gadgets that can face off against Super villains and have teenage and preteen children as side kicks.

 

[mace1]

Probably not. The Marvels has an even higher budget at 220 million and an even lower opening weekend worldwide at 110 million. But it seems they won't be that far off.

Also the article saying that it was the first MCU bomb is funny. Taking out all movies released during the pandemic, Quantumania still exists.

I saw that the marvels budget is $219.8 million.

Quantumania was a flop but not a bomb plus it made it's money back later that same year and someone else explain from awhile ago a bomb is flop but really bad flop.
Joker 2 may not make it to 200 million and while the marvels budget is higher the break even point is higher for joker2 since the marvels had less marketing.

The overall cost is higher for joker2 then the marvels if you combined marketing and budget,so that's why i said the joker2 will lose more money plus you have look to look at cinemascore. The marvels was liked way way more then joker2, so joker2 will have less legs then the marvels it looks like.

Here is some of the mcu flops so far. This was from from awhile ago.

The flops the mcu had is incredible hulk box office in phase 1,eternals in phase 4 and ant-man 3 and the marvels in phase 5. Eternals came out during covid and not playing in china. Black widow flopped on the big screen and it came out when covid was happening and not shown in china as well but made up for it on disney plus so the movie overall did not flop. Ant-man 3 made it's money back and the marvels and eternals was watch alot on disney plus.The mcu will make it's money back for the marvels this year or has done so already. The marvels was coming out during a strike by the way so they could not do more marketing before the movie came out. The mcu also made it's money back for the other flops too.

 

[mace1]

Here is a explanation for flop vs bomb.

Box Office Bomb - TV Tropes
While in the press the different terms have some crossover, a flop may be applied to all disappointing results, but a bomb is an outright failure costing studios millions. With today's budgets, you can even see losses in the range of hundreds of millions.

​

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I tend to be easily pleased when it comes to CBMs, and I liked the first movie a lot. But this was just a misfire pretty much every level.

Nothing happened in the movie, the court case could have been the first hour of the movie with Joker and Harley going on a rampage after and that would have been a better movie.

Phoenix and Gaga were great, but that's about it. The musical elements didn't elevate anything, just slowed it down. And the movie had nothing to say. Phillips comes across as a spoilt brat in all of this really. If you don't wanna make the movie don't make it.

 

[Lily Adler]

I tend to be easily pleased when it comes to CBMs, and I liked the first movie a lot. But this was just a misfire pretty much every level.

Nothing happened in the movie, the court case could have been the first hour of the movie with Joker and Harley going on a rampage after and that would have been a better movie.

Phoenix and Gaga were great, but that's about it. The musical elements didn't elevate anything, just slowed it down. And the movie had nothing to say. Phillips comes across as a spoilt brat in all of this really. If you don't wanna make the movie don't make it.

Bonnie and Clyde the musical with the climax Arthur learning Harley was lying about her past.