Judge Dredd Reboot!!

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm genuinely not trying to have a downer about the movie. Lord knows that there have been a faithfull few of us on here posting on various 2000AD inspired threads over the years declaring our burning desire to see a really good Dredd movie [and then, by extension other 2000AD movies] get made.

I'm actually thinking that this will end up as being quite a decent and watchable hardcore futuristic sci-fi action flick [just like the Escape from New York nod]; I just dont know if it's going to be the Judge Dredd movie that we've waited for.

I feel exactly the same way, I am expecting a decent level action movie, but I just dont think they have the budget to go beyond that. Admittedly District 9 was low budget but was one of the best sci-fi action movies to come out in years.

But I just dont see Dredd achieving the same. I think it will be a mid-level comic book movie, around the level of The Incredible Hulk, Daredevil and Punisher 04.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Here's a quick manip of something I think would look better:

Helmet looks big, because the shoulder pads were reduced in size. Realismus. Your manip makes his head look way too small, in relation to the shoulder width.

IMO, design looks great, riot gear with symbolic helmet, that makes judges recognizable in any crowd. Personally, I think, the helmet looks better from the side, from the top too. Front views require good light, like in the photo you photoshopped. I think, it's the best frontal shot of Dredd yet.

Damn, can't wait to see it in action.

 

[elgaz]

I have no problems with the new look at all, helmet included. I think it looks gritty, realistic and more akin to a real suit with protective gear than Stallone's version did.

 

[wobbly]

Helmet looks big, because the shoulder pads were reduced in size. Realismus. Your manip makes his head look way too small, in relation to the shoulder width.

IMO, design looks great, riot gear with symbolic helmet, that makes judges recognizable in any crowd. Personally, I think, the helmet looks better from the side, from the top too. Front views require good light, like in the photo you photoshopped. I think, it's the best frontal shot of Dredd yet.

Damn, can't wait to see it in action.

The helmet looks big because it is big. The shoulder pads have nothing to do with the things physical dimensions being on the large side (look at the Stallone helmet and you can see his one was smaller).

And my manip was just a quick job to show how the 'eyes' should fall (lower so they are actually over his eyes and not up on his forehead). That's the biggest issue I have with it. The overall size I can live with, but the off kilter placement of the eye sockets is distracting (it would be even more obvious if they hadn't blacked out the whole visor instead of just the eyes).

Agreed it will look better from above and the sides.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Agree. Judge Stallone looks ******ed. It can work in comics, but not in movies. Unless it's some kind of parody. Urban's Dredd looks much more convincing. I can undestand people's complain, because they got used to Stallone and exaggerated comic book designs. The new design looks as realistic as possible, without violating canons.

 

[OutOfBoose]

The helmet looks big because it is big.

It's big enough to fit a human head into it. And to look protective enough. Unlike Stallone's one.

And my manip was just a quick job to show how the 'eyes' should fall (lower so they are actually over his eyes and not up on his forehead).

Agree with that part. That might be better. But I'm fine with the overall size.

 

[wobbly]

Here's another one with the other pic:

I've only reduced the overall size a little bit (would be maybe a inch either side in real dimensions), with the eyes lowered and the visor blacked out over the eyes only.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I've only reduced the overall size a little bit (would be maybe a inch either side in real dimensions), with the eyes lowered and the visor blacked out over the eyes only.

Somehow, without the original image, I get the same impression from it. It doesn't change much. I blame only light setup on that image. And camera work. How in the hell does 185 cm Karl Urban look almost as tall as 160 cm Olivia?

 

[uniqueweasel]

Ever since I followed the production of this film(its cost, script, etc.,), I've been keeping healthy expectations of what to expect in terms of scope and the kind of epic it could be. I'm going to hold Dredd to the standard of modest, but crafty action films like Blade, Kick-Ass, Sin City, Predators, and District 9, as opposed to mega-budgeted comicbook adaptations like The Dark Knight, or Watchmen.

So far, it does give a vibe that the people involved in Dredd are being very crafty with the certain amount of resources they have. I think it's very appropriate that they use a film like Escape From New York as a model, not only because of the basic plot, but also because John Carpenter did so much with that film with little!

Agreed

 

[wobbly]

Somehow, without the original image, I get the same impression from it. It doesn't change much. I blame only light setup on that image. And camera work. How in the hell does 185 cm Karl Urban look almost as tall as 160 cm Olivia?

That the changes are subtle is all the more annoying. They didn't have to do much different to make the helmet look good instead of looking out of whack, ill-fitting and sadly rather stupid (imo). I'm actually bemused as to why the designer thought putting the eyes up on the forehead (it's the same for all the Judges) was a good idea. It serves no practical purpose, there's no practical reason for doing that, and it does not work at all.

All the right components are there, but for God knows what reason they dropped the ball when they put them together.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I think if Urbans shoulders were broader, the helmet wouldnt look so ridiculous, but it just looks far too big for his head and the rest of his body. Everything else is fine, although I would have preffered a better lawgiver as well. But the helmet is the only thing bothering to any real degree.

Maybe it will look better in motion.

 

[OutOfBoose]

That the changes are subtle is all the more annoying. They didn't have to do much different to make the helmet look good instead of looking out of whack, ill-fitting and sadly rather stupid (imo). I'm actually bemused as to why the designer thought putting the eyes up on the forehead (it's the same for all the Judges) was a good idea. It serves no practical purpose, there's no practical reason for doing that, and it does not work at all.

On my second look those pointy parts of the visor can pass for a frown eyebrows. Maybe.

All the right components are there, but for God knows what reason they dropped the ball when they put them together.

Yeah, the helmet required a little more tweaking. But we need to see it in action.

 

[obin_gam]

Good blog post about the helmet design:

So lots of people are saying Dredd’s helmet doesnt look right. And you know what, they are correct… because Dredd’s helmet NEVER looks right.
Here’s what I mean. I’ve taken a classic Bolland pic of Dredd which is actually pretty humanly proportioned unlike at least 50% of your standard Dredd pics. Seriously, most of them look like Rondo Hatton cut off at the eyebrows.
So here’s the start off

Then I removed the distracting background and laid in a human head. I used a Jason Statham pic as I didnt want hair to be an additional factor (though it would have better made the argument if I had). Its low opacity here so you can see where I’ve tried to match the background. The nose and mouth line up which is the most important part. If anything this head is TOO small, but again, I’ll let that go so I’m not appearing to force my point.


So here’s the pic with the real head in full view

And here’s how much you’d need to cut off his skull to get it to fit in a comic book Dredd’s helmet

Again, if anything his head looks too small but you would still never get a human head to fit in a helmet looking “classic” Judge Dredd.

tl;dr - the helmet is big so human heads can fit into it.

 

[uniqueweasel]

Personally I don't have much of a problem with the visor area on the pictures, its the top part of the helmet, above the badge, on the picture with the lawgiver drawn, it just seems to go really high up, as I say though it's disappointing because I really like the look of the rest of the beat up battle worn looking costume he's wearing

 

[wobbly]

Good blog post about the helmet design:


l;dr - the helmet is big so human heads can fit into it.

So Stallone has an abnormally small then? Seriously, the Judges helmets were all smaller in that film, were all the actors of usually diminished head capacity?

See, cherry picking comic art to try and illustrate the point is stupid. Bolland is one the better artists, but he'd freely admit his work on Dredd was not all always anatomically perfect (nor is most comic art).

Better to stick to live action examples of actors wearing similar helmets, wouldn't you say?

Stallone's film proves a smaller helmet is obviously more than possible. The guys who made the 'Judge Minty' outfits proved that having the eyes in the right frikkin place is not beyond the realms of possibility either.

Bottom line, the made the helmet big. Not because they 'had' to as some would like to pretend, but because they simply did. They compounded that error by somehow managing to screw up the eye design as well. The result may please some, and may not bother many more, but I for one cannot say I care for it at all.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Good blog post about the helmet design:

That's indeed a good post. But people don't want to hear any reasons. They want Stallone as Dredd, they want enormous golden shoulder pads, they want Arnold as Conan and so on.

So Stallone has an abnormally small then?

Stallone's helmet is much less realistic. And it's different from comic book designs. While Minty guys went way too close to comic book designs, that's why their costumes look obsolete and a bit goofy. Just like cosplay.

 

[wobbly]

That's indeed a good post. But people don't want to hear any reasons. They want Stallone as Dredd, they want enormous golden shoulder pads, they want Arnold as Conan and so on.

Oh, do spare us that Straw man argument rubbish. I've not seen anyone here ask for Stallone back as Dredd, and can't say I've seen anyone pining much for the shoulder pads either.

So how about you stick to addressing what people are actually posting instead of making stuff up?

The complaint is they ballsed up the helmet, which I'm alone in thinking they have.

The only reason I've seen offered so far is that it 'has' to be that big. Stallone's film obviously proves otherwise.

So you tell me, which is the better example? Physical evidence of actors in costumes, or someone photoshopping Jason Statham's head over a Brian Bolland drawing?

 

[uniqueweasel]

I'm still hoping that it just may be a bad angle or something of the latest picture, because I didn't think the earlier pictures looked all that bad

 

[wobbly]

You added this while I was posting so I'll address it now...

Stallone's helmet is much less realistic. And it's different from comic book designs. While Minty guys went way too close to comic book designs, that's why their costumes look obsolete and a bit goofy. Just like cosplay.

I'm sorry I don't get this 'much less realistic'? How so? If it fit then how the hell is it 'much less realistic'?

And sure the design was different (annoyingly so) but that has no bearing on the fact it is smaller than the new one.

See, I don't find it especially realistic that the Judges would wear helmets where their vision is heavily obscured as the eyelets on the thing are on the bloody forehead. They've got the X bridge right across the eyes instead of below, then the sides cutting off any peripheral vision whatsoever.

And the Minty guys don't have a movie budget to play with so cut them some slack. What they did manage to do with their modest funds is at least get the eyes on the helmets right, and those don't look goofy at all.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Oh, do spare us that Straw man argument rubbish. I've not seen anyone here ask for Stallone back as Dredd, and can't say I've seen anyone pining much for the shoulder pads either.

So how about you stick to addressing what people are actually posting instead of making stuff up?

I'm not making anything up. I didn't say that you or anyone else here asked for Stallone as Dredd. But I read many movie news sites and blogs. Read comments. And I heard a lot of stuff like that. "Stallone IS Dredd, he was awesome, not this Urban with a bucket on the head." And tons of references to Spaceballs.

The only reason I've seen offered so far is that it 'has' to be that big. Stallone's film obviously proves otherwise.

The helmet only gives impression of that on frontal shots. It doesn't look big from other sides. So it's the only lack. I would add, pretty subjective. Many people are happy with everything. But the most vocal keep bashing it like there's no tomorrow. And that the movie will suck because of it.

So you tell me, which is the better example? Physical evidence of actors in costumes, or someone photoshopping Jason Statham's head over a Brian Bolland drawing?

It's a good example for people, who give comic book illustrations as an evidence of how the helmet should look on live actors.

In the end, I didn't say that finalized helmet doesn't have any lacks. I say, it could be better. And I agree with some tweaks you provided. But it's not THAT horrible, like many people say. It's not. And personally, it ten times better than Stallone's one.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I'm sorry I don't get this 'much less realistic'? How so? If it fit then how the hell is it 'much less realistic'?

I mean, it fits the world of the movie from 1995, but this design, even with the red cross on the forehead, wouldn't fit gritty universe of the new movie. It looks not like a protective gear, but a carnival accessory.

And sure the design was different (annoyingly so) but that has no bearing on the fact it is smaller than the new one.

Yet it doesn't give an impression that it can protect anything. Observe real helmets - bike, war, racer. You will see the difference between a real helmet and Stallone's cowl.

See, I don't find it especially realistic that the Judges would wear helmets where their vision is heavily obscured as the eyelets on the thing are on the bloody forehead. They've got the X bridge right across the eyes instead of below, then the sides cutting off any peripheral vision whatsoever.

That's the compromise of creators. They were ready to alternate everything, but the helmet. Because it's the most recognizable part of the franchise. I read some interview about it long time ago. Helmet is almost untouched.

And the Minty guys don't have a movie budget to play with so cut them some slack. What they did manage to do with their modest funds is at least get the eyes on the helmets right, and those don't look goofy at all.

If you will look at Empire photo with three judges, you will see that on some heads (judge Lex) eyes are positioned right.

I respect the effort of Minty creators. And grateful for it. Still, miracle didn't happen. Their suits look like cosplay.

 

[wobbly]

I'm not making anything up. I didn't say that you or anyone else here asked for Stallone as Dredd. But I read many movie news sites and blogs. Read comments. And I heard a lot of stuff like that. "Stallone IS Dredd, he was awesome, not this Urban with a bucket on the head." And tons of references to Spaceballs.

Then you should have said that's what you've read elsewhere, as your comment certainly reads as being addressed to posters here.

The helmet only gives impression of that on frontal shots. It doesn't look big from other sides. So it's the only lack. I would add, pretty subjective. Many people are happy with everything. But the most vocal keep bashing it like there's no tomorrow. And that the movie will suck because of it.

Agree it's subjective. Some will like it, some will not be bothered one way or another, and others (like myself) will remain annoyed they got so close but stumbled at the last. That on it's own will not make or break the movie.
Btw, I will go only go about it when I do not agree with the justifications that keep getting offered. It didn't have to be that big, it's not more realistic, etc.

Call it for what is is: A highly paid designer dropping the ball. The reasons fans are making up for the designers clanger won't hide that fact.

It's a good example for people, who give comic book illustrations as an evidence of how the helmet should look on live actors.

When its posted as "the helmet is big so human heads can fit into it" then I'm sorry, but it's false evidence to a false excuse.

In the end, I didn't say that finalized helmet doesn't have any lacks. I say, it could be better. And I agree with some tweaks you provided. But it's not THAT horrible, like many people say. It's not. And personally, it ten times better than Stallone's one.

It being very close the books design almost makes me forgive it's shortcomings. Almost. Unfortunately, though Stallone's was different from the books it didn't look distractingly wrong. As this one does I find it very hard to say this one is actually better, tbh.

 

[obin_gam]

Yet it doesn't give an impression that it can protect anything. Observe real helmets - bike, war, racer. You will see the difference between a real helmet and Stallone's cowl.

This is a very good point! Urbans helmet actually looks like a riot gear helmet and a thing that can protect his head.
I very much doubt Stallones helmet provides any more protection than, lets say a plastic toy helmet... Just look at it, its paper thin and sits so close to his head it would be more practical to just not have it on (maybe thats why he took it off after 15 minutes hehe ) while with Urbans helmet we can see the padding inside it and it looks like it can take bullets.

 

[uniqueweasel]

This is a very good point! Urbans helmet actually looks like a riot gear helmet and a thing that can protect his head.
I very much doubt Stallones helmet provides any more protection than, lets say a plastic toy helmet... Just look at it, its paper thin and sits so close to his head it would be more practical to just not have it on (maybe thats why he took it off after 15 minutes hehe ) while with Urbans helmet we can see the padding inside it and it looks like it can take bullets.

Yes! And it has to be comfortable, as apparently it's staying on for the whole of the movie

 

[wobbly]

I mean, it fits the world of the movie from 1995, but this design, even with the red cross on the forehead, wouldn't fit gritty universe of the new movie. It looks not like a protective gear, but a carnival accessory.

In your opinion. I do not agree with that assessment at all.

Yet it doesn't give an impression that it can protect anything. Observe real helmets - bike, war, racer. You will see the difference between a real helmet and Stallone's cowl.

'Cowl'...Overstatement I see. Seriously, not once have I watched the Stallone film and spared a single thought to muse on how protective the helmet might actually be. Little things like eyes being on the forehead I find somewhat more distracting.
Does the new one look more protective? I guess so. But I'd rather it look good.

That's the compromise of creators. They were ready to alternate everything, but the helmet. Because it's the most recognizable part of the franchise. I read some interview about it long time ago. Helmet is almost untouched.

No it isn't Design is different, it's bigger, it doesn't have the little extra bits at the chin level...

Seriously, its no closer to the Stallone helmet than the Minty versions are.

If someone from the film has really said that they are having a bloody laugh.

If you will look at Empire photo with three judges, you will see that on some heads (judge Lex) eyes are positioned right.

Unless the actor playing Judge Lex has curiously placed eyes, no, they are not. It's certainly a lot better than the guy behind him, who shows off this basic design flaw to hysterical effect, but it's still not 'right'.

I respect the effort of Minty creators. And grateful for it. Still, miracle didn't happen. Their suits look like cosplay.

Once again, they don't have a movie budget to play with. Their helmets are still better designed than the ones in this.