Kabooooom...

Discussion in 'X-Men 1, 2 & 3' started by Nell2ThaIzzay, May 11, 2006.

  1. Nell2ThaIzzay Registered

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    Sorry Worthy, I couldn't do it.

    I've been beaten and battered this past year, with Singer leaving, Vaughn's disrespect of Singer's movies, the secrets revolving around Gambit's character, only to dump him from the movie, with hypocritical excuses like "we wanted to do him justice, and didn't want to ruin his intro with a cameo" dispite the fact that full on characters in this franchise like Pyro, Iceman, Beast, Kitty Pryde, and Colossus all had their intros with cameos... along with beloved characters who are being drastically changed from their comic counterparts like Trask and Callisto, to the AICN script review that had everyone worried, and I was on the front lines of optimism trying to keep everyone's spirits up.

    But I've taken a beating that I don't know that I can endure anymore. Maybe it's just because the movie is SO close now (yet still feels so far away), and I'm just too excited for this, and can hardly wait any longer. But I'm succuming to the dark side :(

    These novelizations... both saying that Cyclops dies, the heavy hints that Wolverine becomes the leader of the team, and is Jean's savior in the Phoenix Saga... I'm still anticipating this movie, I still can't wait, I still go to 7-11 everyday to get my Slurpee cups... but I can't be as optimistic as I was.

    If this is how it goes down, these aren't my X-Men.

    I can handle Wolverine being the main guy. He's the main guy in the comics, cartoons, video games, everything. He may not be the poster boy of the X-Men ideals, which is Cyclops, but he really is Batman to everyone else's Robin. People think X-Men, they picture Wolverine. And this isn't just from the movies. It's always been that way.

    But these movies worked because despite making Wolverine a major focus, Singer and his creative team got what the X-Men stood for, got what these characters were about, and still brought that to the forefront. It was still the X-Men.

    Now obviously, we haven't seen the movie, and don't know... but if Cyclops dies, and Wolverine becomes a leader... that's not the X-Men.

    Everything I've seen thus far from TV spots and trailers has been amazing. Magneto is going to bring his prophesized war to the humans' doorstep. Jean Grey will rise as the Phoenix. Halle Berry will shut everyone up and Storm will become the fighter she is. Iceman will ice up. Beast and Angel will make their debuts, and Colossus will become a full fledged teammate.

    Everything looks awesome, and very few movies impress me on this level from trailers alone, and every single one that did impressed me in theatres.

    But no matter how good of a movie this might be otherwise, it won't be a good X-MEN movie if Cyclops dies and Wolverine becomes a leader, and is Jean's savior. It's what I've been trying to say all along when people actually defended these rumored deaths, saying "it's a war, there has to be death to show the seriousness of the issue"... no, it's not a war. It's a conflict, on a small island in a bay. Regardless of any "Last Stand" subtitle, or anything else, this is not a war movie, it's an X-Men movie, and it must be an X-Men movie first and foremost. Changes will need to be made to make a film adaptation to work... but you still must remain faithful. Killing off Cyclops is not faithful. Making Wolverine a leader is not faithful.

    I really want to geek out over this movie. I want to see it 5 times straight over opening weekend. I want to go for my 5th time on my birthday, and annoy all my friends as I quote the entire movie in the theatre. I want to anticipate the release of the DVD, and the day it comes out when I will totally geek out and watch all 3 movies back-to back-to back in a single sitting.

    And for so long I expected that to be the case.

    But I just don't know anymore.

    With these novelizations released, there doesn't seem to be much hope anymore of this movie being an X-Men movie. These movies for so long have not been just "X-Men In Name Only", but from everything I'm hearing, they very well could.

    There's always possibilities. Until we see the final product, anything is possible. These novelizations surely weren't written just recently, they would have had to have been in development for quite some time. Perhaps they are based off of the early drafts of the scripts (along the lines of what AICN got ahold of last year), early drafts that have been changed since then. But... X2's novelization surely would have been in development in earlier stages as well, and surely that film also when through script changes.

    Perhaps it's all a plot. X2 had Jean surviving in the end. In the movie, she dies. Maybe Fox wanted these novelizations to keep the death of Cyclops in the novels, to keep this charade up. But then again, this isn't junior high, this is a professional company, how long will they keep these mind games up, and how far will they really go just to trick us internet geeks?

    The beating has taken it's toll on me. I'm still looking forward to this movie, just as much as I was before... but now there is that sense of negativity around it, that this won't be the X-Men, it won't be their last stand.

    I'm an easy date. All I need is one sign... ANYTHING, to give me hope that Cyclops lives. That Wolverine doesn't become the poster boy for the X-Men ideology. That this really will be an X-MEN movie. But at this point, I don't know that I'm gonna see it until May 26th :(

    I'm sorry for making a new thread... but I really just had to rant. I had to get that off of my chest. I hope that you all can forgive me for making a new thread on something that's being discussed in numerous places as it is.

    I'm scared....
     
  2. Psionic Force Registered

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  3. Octoberist point blank

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    I"m scared too.

    Good article Nell.
     
  4. Jennifer Walters Attorney at Law

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    Good well written article.

    And why I agree with some of it....

    I'll just say that....the X-Men is bigger than any one character...whether it be Wolverine or Cyclops.
     
  5. Octoberist point blank

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    The X-Men is bigger than any one character..I agree. It should be a family..
     
  6. Octoberist point blank

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    and it seems like Cyclops is the red headed step child..
     
  7. Nell2ThaIzzay Registered

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    True...

    But that arguement works to the extent of not including certain characters (Gambit), or even changing some to make the overall movie work (Lady Deathstrike)

    But to take some of the most important characters, what those characters are about, and argueably the most important storyline in X-Men history, and totally change it around, is also "bigger than one character", it's a total inaccuracy to the source material you are adapting.

    It is one thing to bring the Phoenix Saga back down to Earth, and not make it all space ships and star eating and galaxies and ****.

    But to change some of the most important things about the most important characters, like making Wolverine a leader, and killing off Cyclops, that's pretty big.
     
  8. Darthkush Avenger

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    Indeed. And it continues to amaze me how this one issue about the film has galvanized fans. It beat the whole,"why isn't Gambit in the movie" issue like it stole candy from it's children!
     
  9. Octoberist point blank

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    I've always been cautiously optimistic about X3.

    But after the absence of Gambit, I was a little iffy.

    But with Cyclops now, I'm borderlining not interested in the movie. I'll see it still, but my expectations are very very low.
     
  10. pt_photo_inc Registered

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    well... interesting insert of thoughts there. I hate SINGER bashing... cause he did something that COUNTLESS movies failed to do before it. Made a comic book movie work! and not only work but work really well! he did it with a mere 60 million dollar budget the first time and then double that the next time around.. plus some i think. And i very vividly remember X2 in theaters... the opening scene! HOLY SHI*T, the crowd instantly was like "MATRIX WHAT? WAS THAT A MOVIE?" It blew us away at every level! I didnt care about storms, scotts or xaviers lack of screen time... cause mystique and wolverine and Nightcrawler where fine on thier own! And the whole "Striker... this is your son!" OMG! The writting, the directing... the actors! The prison escape! I mean people that hated sci fi movies were like... "that metal guy, the one that breaks out of prison... holy crap!"

    Then after all that we get the damn DR scene! And every excuse has been thrown at us for why all these failures keep coming up... but i think we might be being lied to. Over all i think we will enjoy the movie though. Cause we will enjoy it (like you said) for what it is. And personally i hope cyclops dies. I am definately not for him living. And i think it is funny that we are blaming anyone but James Marsden for that. Cause i gurantee if they had his full committment to the project, we would have seen a WHOLE DIFFERENT movie...

    CYCLOPS: (at white house during end fight scene) "Jean... come back to us... come back to me... I need you." (tear stream from scots eyes as he breaks apart emotional) "I need you jean... i know you are still there." ( a single tear falls from jeans eye as she raises her hand in an almost confused mannor. The air around cyclops begins to singe as his tears turn to mist... his skin starts to burn.... but he just stays there crying.)

    then i dont know what from there. but... he would bring her back... but he didnt committ so the script was wrote. personally i like to look at other team leaders and he is not one. Captain america, mr fantastic, superman of the JLA... then CYCLOPS?????? No.

    so i have no issues. but i do like your view points... just put the blame where it should go.
     
  11. pt_photo_inc Registered

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    then you will love it
     
  12. Jennifer Walters Attorney at Law

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    I think despite my third favorite character most likely dying in this movie...

    I'll still fricking love and enjoy this movie. There's so much left in this movie other than Cyclops NOT to still like it.

    I mean....seriously people I understand why you are pissed at Wolverine becoming Cyclops with a feral rage in this movie most likely, but once again. X-Men = Bigger than any one character, bigger than just Storm, bigger than just Gambit, bigger than just Northstar.

    But there is still so much left to enjoy in this movie other than Cyclops.
     
  13. Strgts Registered

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    I guess I am the only one here that liked Blade 1
     
  14. pt_photo_inc Registered

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    I LOVED BLADE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    HELLA COOL!

    FROST wasssss soooooo hot! and i am a straight dude! But yeah, it was awesome over all... and spiderman was cool. but others have got no love! deservingly no love!
     
  15. Retroman Registered

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    :( Nice post Nell.:up:

    People say X-Men is bigger than any one character yet they demand equal screen time for all of them. I'm not saying that a Cyclops death and Wolverine taking leadership would be right (far from it) i'm just saying that the writers can never really win. It's a 2 hour movie and theres only so much attention one can give to each character.You have to put your selves in the writers shoes for a minute. They're dealing with a lot of studio politics and actors egos. Even though we read the nicest stories about them - Do you really think Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry etc would return if they didn't get bigger roles? Marsden just does not have that power. I think Kinberg said that they had already decided on Cyclops' fate before he signed for Superman Returns.So....
     
  16. BMM Registered

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    That's true, but again it's relative to every person and their perception of the source material that is X-Men . . .

    For instance, with X3 . . . thus far it appears Cyclops dies in the Dark Phoenix Saga, Wolverine becomes leader and effectively appears to take Cyclops' place, Mystique is no longer a mutant, Rogue is no longer a mutant, X-Men such as Psylocke are Brotherhood members, characters such as Callisto and Trask are only recognizable by name, Shadowcat is entering a love triangle that should probably be on the outs . . . all the while doing nothing with Colossus who is right behind her (which I still don't get), Professor X is said to be killed by Jean, Angel is introduced but appears little affiliated with the team, while the X-Men duke it out with a made up group called the Omega Muties on Alcatraz . . .

    But they do use their powers more

    So, yes, the movie may be good and enjoyable, but perhaps to some it may not be an enjoyable X-Men movie, which I think is where a lot of people still hesitant about the film are getting hung up (as well as reservations about it being good in general, because honestly, you never know until you've seen it). To them, it may seem like a far cry from what the X-Men are otherwise--kind of like it's almost become more of an X-Men in name thing rather than anthing else. But who's to say come May 26th.
     
  17. martinbluther Registered

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    If your standard for comic-to-movie adaptation is Daredevil, then there are no problems possible for X:3. If your standard is X1,then we have problems, Houston. Cyke is the first X-Man. It's absolutely ridiculous that Cyke is getting the screws. It would be like a remake of Star Wars and omitting Yoda because the culture at large doesn't think he's tough enough. It's just such a cop-out/departure from the spirit of the original that it screams.
     
  18. pt_photo_inc Registered

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    can you find that RETRO? cause i remember a specific issue from the get go about him signing SR!
     
  19. martinbluther Registered

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    and to say that these movies are representative that the X-Men are bigger than one character is like saying that Twister is more than a movie about a couple of people chasing tornadoes. These movies have arguably ONLY been about one character. (with side arguments about X-M)... That's fine--great, even, if the movies are titles Wolvy 1,2, and 3...
     
  20. pt_photo_inc Registered

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    i can actually sum this all up with a simple example taken from BRYAN SINGER's address to the fans about SR at a confrence!

    scene: Some fatty in a superman shirt stands up "Why did you change the custom of superman for the movie?"
    Bryan: "what do you mean? what change?"
    fatty: "well the "S" is smaller and..."
    Bryan: "so what did it change from?" (suddenly images start popping up of a big S a small S a black and red S... and about a 1000 other outfits i never knew he wore) "I mean... how did i change it?" then he just goes on to make a point about it is SAMPLED From the comics...


    sorry... this movie.. good sampling... marvel is not a CONTINUITY any more. The ultimate xmen was an attempt to fix this... but this movie starts by sampling some of JOSS WHEDONS WORK?????? Joss is an idiot! Then bobby and shadow... ULTIMATES... i mean goes on and on... so them taking liberties in a film is NO FREAKING DIFFERENT then every other writers LIBERTIES!

    like why is BEAST LOOK LIKE A CAT NOW? in the comics... cause some idiot took liberties!

    now you have a movie of just that.

    deal. not being rude... just deal
     
  21. martinbluther Registered

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    But even if you only take the first two movies, Cyke should have a better role than this, not some shallow, crap non-existence
     
  22. Jennifer Walters Attorney at Law

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    Joss Whedon? Idiot? My, I think that's a first.
     
  23. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    Totally agree
     
  24. Retroman Registered

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    Yes.:) From TheXverse.com's Q&A thread with Simon Kinberg.....

    Source: http://www.thexverse.com/community/showthread.php?t=8&page=58
     
  25. pt_photo_inc Registered

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    dont know what you are trying to say here but yes... joss... idiot... hate him... if he was choosen to direct movie i could tell you EXACTLY how it would look cause he uses the same freaking formulas on everything... and he is the one that created this CURE story line. it was his bout in xmen comics that it came from.
     

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