Superman Returns Kevin Smith's experience with Superman (Returns)

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yup.....me too.

 

[MoreCowbell]

You tube isn't working for me.

It Says:
You Tube
All Your Video Are Belong to Us.

-R

It's down right now (maintenence).

But if Superman doesn't know she is pregnant how is he suppose to know he is running out on his kid....If Lois doesn't tell him it isn't his fault..it is hers. Besides that The kid is Richard's.
And you keep bringing up the piano..ever thought it might just be a small electric keyboard that the kid could pick up?

Just curious... Those who believe the Kid is not Clark's, what future storyline do you imagine with that basis? I can't think of one single thing that works well. And according to most people who read the Novel, it gives hints that Clark is the father, but also seems to keep things hidden about him.

Richard the father = Don't like it and doesn't make sense to me
Clark the father = Makes sense since the kid is ill and he's conceived soon after Superman has left.

Lois didn't move on with her life that quickly did she?

 

[DorkyFresh]

Richard the father makes more sense to me than Superman being the father...


...if Superman is the father then it means that Superman won't feel so bad about wanting Lois to break up with Richard. if Richard is the father, then Superman has to DEAL with that. after alllllll of the good that Superman has done, one thing he cannot and MUST not do is break up a happy home. therefor...if Lois has a son by a different man, then that's her family...that's her life. she's moved on...she's COMMITED to settling down with her son and Richard and Superman has to battle between being selfish and going after Lois meanwhile breaking up her family......or letting her live her life and losing the one girl that matters to him besides his mom.

 

[MoreCowbell]

Richard the father makes more sense to me than Superman being the father...


...if Superman is the father then it means that Superman won't feel so bad about wanting Lois to break up with Richard. if Richard is the father, then Superman has to DEAL with that. after alllllll of the good that Superman has done, one thing he cannot and MUST not do is break up a happy home. therefor...if Lois has a son by a different man, then that's her family...that's her life. she's moved on...she's COMMITED to settling down with her son and Richard and Superman has to battle between being selfish and going after Lois meanwhile breaking up her family......or letting her live her life and losing the one girl that matters to him besides his mom.

Well by that deduction, Superman doesn't get the girl. We know he gets Lois (Not in SR, but future films).

That is why I don't think it can work... Unless you just kill of Richard. What happens when Clark gets Lois back? He just steps in as dad and everyone just moves on? It just doesn't play out right for the happy ending we KNOW is coming.

IF there was a real threat Lois and Clark would not be together, it makes sense. But it's an empty threat as they're meant to be.

 

[DorkyFresh]

well who's to say that Lois Lane WILL end up with Superman? i mean look at the previous franchise...even though 3 and 4 were pretty crappy, they still never fully ended up together. the closest was in part 2.

Lois and Clark might end up together in the shows and the comics but these are the movies. we know they're SUPPOSED to be together and they WANT to be together but now Lois has to chose between Superman and her family. i haven't read the novel so i don't know how the story ends...

...but if the kid isn't Supes it'll make perfect sense to me because it'll be a conflict that Superman can't battle with his muscle.

 

[Wise]

and then come Episode III when there is the possibility of him directing the Star Wars TV series, he praises the entire prequel trilogy out of his ass.

I don;t really blame smith for that. If there's a possibility for him to direct a dream project like that then he should do everything he can to do it.

 

[Kane]

Just curious... Those who believe the Kid is not Clark's, what future storyline do you imagine with that basis? I can't think of one single thing that works well. And according to most people who read the Novel, it gives hints that Clark is the father, but also seems to keep things hidden about him.

Richard dies or he and Lois break it off in the sequel. He is an international reporter who is overseas often enough....but I think its a better bet that he'll eventually die. Hes only supposed to be an obstacle for the MoS to overcome in this film.

Hes really a more developed version of Jameson's son from Spiderman 2.

As far as Jason, again I want to see him grow into a teenager (into a pilot/adevnturer) using a new actor later on obviously and have adventures with a teenage Supergirl (around the 4th film).

That way there will be a 2nd generation younger group to attract the kids as Routh and Bosworth (who are also obviously still in these films) grow older (in their 30s).

And I want the entire run of Superman films to end with Lois and Clark/Superman possibly trying to have a child of their own (even though it wouldnt be easy given their differences).


Honestly though, Superman being there for Jason and Lois (a guardian to watch over them) isnt that bad. Lois still raises Jason but the thing is its really not that much different than Superman 3.

In Superman 3, Clark almost settled down with Lana and her kid, and people didnt have a problem with that.....most wanted him with Anette O'Toole's Lana instead of Kidder's Lois.

Now, Superman 3 has been wiped from continuity and existence (Blame Pryor) so it really isnt much difference to have Lois in a similar role and Superman being there for them.

 

[Agentdemon]

Now, Superman 3 has been wiped from continuity and existence (Blame Pryor) so it really isnt much difference to have Lois in a similar role and Superman being there for them.

Bite your tongue! Richard was the best thing that happened to Superman, the fault lies with Lester.

 

[Matt]

And he read the movie novel as well, for shame...

I just want to know whay happened to the personalitry that admitted he was hyped for the movie just a couple days ago? Regression?

You're confusing hyped with liking what I see.

 

[Matt]

Matt, I`m sorry but you`re just being ridiculous now. You call Forrest Gump ******ed, you against everyone just for the sake of it. I wonder if you`re negative just because you like to be the opposite of everybody...

What the heeeelll are you talking about? When did mentally ******ed become an unacceptable way to describe a mentally ******ed person? Forrest Gump, the character, was meant to be mentally ******ed.

 

[Matt]

Oh man...its just that is too much for me to handle. I really tried my best to be nice...I take it back what i said. Edited my post.

Take a look at my conversation with Fatboy in the screenwriters thread. We had a nice discussion about the Krypton scene being cut. Here, Matt is against everybody, acting with prejudice, etc, etc.

 

[Matt]

Now, now, SpiderDaniel.....the sad truth is, you're just being baited into talking smack so you can get a 'write-up' from a Mod.

And people say I'm a conspiracy theorist. I don't know what Danny-boy was getting so offended about, how exactly is calling a mentally ******ed character, mentally ******ed a bad thing?

 

[LuvSupes]

Lois and Clark might end up together in the shows and the comics but these are the movies. we know they're SUPPOSED to be together and they WANT to be together but now Lois has to chose between Superman and her family. i haven't read the novel so i don't know how the story ends...

...but if the kid isn't Supes it'll make perfect sense to me because it'll be a conflict that Superman can't battle with his muscle.

Just because the kid is Supes doesn't lessen the conflict. If anything, there is more conflict when the child is Superman's because Richard raised Jason. If the child weren't his, then Superman could just leave. But because the child is his, that's more emotional stress and attachment. Plus this is supposed to be a love story, it wouldn't be a love story if the child was from another man.

 

[Nivek]

You're confusing hyped with liking what I see.

Yeah, I get hyped for films I think are going to blow butt chunks too! I am soooo hyped to see Snakes on a Plane I have 4 painfull bowel movements a day, and visit the film message board constantly to reassure the other posters its going to be horrible!

Wheee!! Bring it, Sam L!!

 

[DorkyFresh]

If the child weren't his, then Superman could just leave.

oh yeah...it's just that simple! "i'm gonna leave the only woman i've loved for the last 5 to 10 years........even though i work with her on a daily basis...."

riiiiiiigggghhhhttt!!!

But because the child is his, that's more emotional stress and attachment.

if he IS Supes' then like i said...it'll be all fine and dandy. Lois will leave Richard for Supes and Supes, Lois, and his kid will be together.....

....omg! that's soo much more drama than if he couldn't interfer with someone else's family!!!

Plus this is supposed to be a love story, it wouldn't be a love story if the child was from another man.

who says it wouldn't be? it's a love story if 2 people love each other. IMO the kid being Richard's would create a lot of inner struggle with Supes and Lois because if the kid is Richard's then both Supes and Lois have to resist the urge to be with each other for the better of Lois's family...

 

[LuvSupes]

oh yeah...it's just that simple! "i'm gonna leave the only woman i've loved for the last 5 to 10 years........even though i work with her on a daily basis...." riiiiiiigggghhhhttt!!!

he already did that

if he IS Supes' then like i said...it'll be all fine and dandy. Lois will leave Richard for Supes and Supes, Lois, and his kid will be together.........omg! that's soo much more drama than if he couldn't interfer with someone else's family!!!

If the child is Supes', it doesn't give him a pass to break up Lois' family. There is a child involved, a child that calls Richard "daddy". Richard is as much Jason's father as Jonathon Kent was Clark's father. It isn't as simple has shoving Richard out of the way. The conflict of wanting to be with his son and not break up a family is a much more intense dilemma. There is a deeper investment.

who says it wouldn't be? it's a love story if 2 people love each other. IMO the kid being Richard's would create a lot of inner struggle with Supes and Lois because if the kid is Richard's then both Supes and Lois have to resist the urge to be with each other for the better of Lois's family...

Having Lois jump into bed with another man so fast when she loves Superman, pretty much would kill the love story for me. It's just not a love story if there is no hope for Supes and Lois ending up together. If Richard were the father, then Superman comes off as a homewrecker. There is nothing romantic about watching infidelity on any level. And in the long run, it is much better for a child to have two parents that love him and each other very much, as well as another dad that loves him, rather than watching his mother pine after Superman and his daddy become increasingly unhappy because he knows Lois loves Superman.

 

[MoreCowbell]

he already did that

If the child is Supes', it doesn't give him a pass to break up Lois' family. There is a child involved, a child that calls Richard "daddy". Richard is as much Jason's father as Jonathon Kent was Clark's father. It isn't as simple has shoving Richard out of the way. The conflict of wanting to be with his son and not break up a family is a much more intense dilemma. There is a deeper investment.

Having Lois jump into bed with another man so fast when she loves Superman, pretty much would kill the love story for me. It's just not a love story if there is no hope for Supes and Lois ending up together. If Richard were the father, then Superman comes off as a homewrecker. There is nothing romantic about watching infidelity on any level. And in the long run, it is much better for a child to have two parents that love him and each other very much, as well as another dad that loves him, rather than watching his mother pine after Superman and his daddy become increasingly unhappy because he knows Lois loves Superman.

Yup, this is what I feel. It mirrors his life and family bringing things full circle.

 

[TrailerMusic]

If the child is Supes', it doesn't give him a pass to break up Lois' family. There is a child involved, a child that calls Richard "daddy". Richard is as much Jason's father as Jonathon Kent was Clark's father. It isn't as simple has shoving Richard out of the way. The conflict of wanting to be with his son and not break up a family is a much more intense dilemma. There is a deeper investment.

Singer has said that Richard is as close as a Human can get aka good hearted like Superman is etc. If anything if Jason does turn out to be Supermans whos to say Richard wont step aside & Lois & Richard can stay Friends & will always be around since he works at the Planet etc. You guys are completely leaving out what Richard would do. Sure theres a Child involved but would you want to stay with a Woman who obviously was deeply in love with someone else ? To me if Jason is Superman I can see Richard "stepping aside" & him & Lois simply being Friends.

 

[LuvSupes]

Singer has said that Richard is as close as a Human can get aka good hearted like Superman is etc. If anything if Jason does turn out to be Supermans whos to say Richard wont step aside & Lois & Richard can stay Friends & will always be around since he works at the Planet etc. You guys are completely leaving out what Richard would do. Sure theres a Child involved but would you want to stay with a Woman who obviously was deeply in love with someone else ? To me if Jason is Superman I can see Richard "stepping aside" & him & Lois simply being Friends.

Actually that's the scenario I want. For the child to be Supes' and for Richard to step aside because he is a good man. And I think the writers made him Supes-like for that very reason.

What I was trying to convey though was Superman's perspective because really a person can only control their own actions. Supes can't decide for Richard or guess what Richard will do. From Supes' perspective, Superman is not about breaking up any family just because he is the biological father. It definitely will take Richard to make the move for it to happen.

 

[DorkyFresh]

he already did that

he left her yes.....but if the kid is Richard's he'd have to leave Lois alone PERIOD. i don't think Supes/Clark was expecting Lois to have married and had a kid during his trip to Krypton...

If the child is Supes', it doesn't give him a pass to break up Lois' family. There is a child involved, a child that calls Richard "daddy". Richard is as much Jason's father as Jonathon Kent was Clark's father. It isn't as simple has shoving Richard out of the way. The conflict of wanting to be with his son and not break up a family is a much more intense dilemma. There is a deeper investment.

put yourself in this situation...

...you come back to your hometown to find that your sweetheart has married and moved on with a kid but you still have strong feelings for her and you're gonna have to work with her everyday. you know you can't screw her family life up (a family you have no involvement in) but you can't help but feel the need to hold her because she feels that same need. this is a much tougher situation than if you knew that the child in the family is yours.....because if the child is yours then there's a much better chance that you can hook back up with your sweetheart. if the child isn't yours...you have to go through the everyday drama of resisting the urge to be with her for fear that you'll screw someone ELSE'S family (that's not your own) up.

Having Lois jump into bed with another man so fast when she loves Superman, pretty much would kill the love story for me. It's just not a love story if there is no hope for Supes and Lois ending up together. If Richard were the father, then Superman comes off as a homewrecker. There is nothing romantic about watching infidelity on any level. And in the long run, it is much better for a child to have two parents that love him and each other very much, as well as another dad that loves him, rather than watching his mother pine after Superman and his daddy become increasingly unhappy because he knows Lois loves Superman.

well i'm glad to have read what YOUR idea of a love story is...but not all love stories have a happy ending. a love story doesn't HAVE to end with the 2 characters being together......just look at Titanic. yes, they were together after Rose died, but she still had to lose Jack and move on with her life.

the ONLY prerequisite for a story to be a love story is that the 2 main characters love each other...no if's, and's or but's. it doesn't matter if the story is tragic, hopeful, happy, sad, depressing, uplifting, sweet, horrible.....if the 2 characters love one another, it's a love story.

 

[DorkyFresh]

It isn't as simple has shoving Richard out of the way.

Actually that's the scenario I want. For the child to be Supes' and for Richard to step aside because he is a good man..

huh? isn't that 'shoving Richard out of the way' from the creator's POV?

 

[DorkyFresh]

edit: double post....sorry

 

[TrailerMusic]

huh? isn't that 'shoving Richard out of the way' from the creator's POV?

Not at all shoving Richard out of the way = Richard being left out period. Richard & Lois just simply being Friends & Richard sticking around for Jason is not shoving Richard out of the way

 

[MoreCowbell]

...you come back to your hometown to find that your sweetheart has married and moved on with a kid but you still have strong feelings for her and you're gonna have to work with her everyday. you know you can't screw her family life up (a family you have no involvement in) but you can't help but feel the need to hold her because she feels that same need. this is a much tougher situation than if you knew that the child in the family is yours.....because if the child is yours then there's a much better chance that you can hook back up with your sweetheart. if the child isn't yours...you have to go through the everyday drama of resisting the urge to be with her for fear that you'll screw someone ELSE'S family (that's not your own) up.

If Clark knows anything it's genetics don't determaine YOUR family. It's love. Regardless if Clark is the biological dad, it's not Clark's family. Richard is Jason's father in every other way, as was Jonathon Kent to Clark. The story will still do the things you say it will do if Richard is not Jason's biological father.

well i'm glad to have read what YOUR idea of a love story is...but not all love stories have a happy ending. a love story doesn't HAVE to end with the 2 characters being together......just look at Titanic. yes, they were together after Rose died, but she still had to lose Jack and move on with her life.

the ONLY prerequisite for a story to be a love story is that the 2 main characters love each other...no if's, and's or but's. it doesn't matter if the story is tragic, hopeful, happy, sad, depressing, uplifting, sweet, horrible.....if the 2 characters love one another, it's a love story.

You have a compelling arguement. I said eariler that it was an empty threat that Clark and Lois wouldn't end up together, but you're right. He never got the girl in the movies.

 

[LuvSupes]

because if the child is yours then there's a much better chance that you can hook back up with your sweetheart.

You're not thinking like Superman. For Superman, there is no breaking up homes. There is a child involved, the fact that it is his child makes his decision that much harder.

well i'm glad to have read what YOUR idea of a love story is...but not all love stories have a happy ending.

Superman is about hope.

A love story doesn't HAVE to end with the 2 characters being together......just look at Titanic. yes, they were together ...

Exactly, they were together. In tragic love stories, the hero and heroine do end up together even if they die right afterwards. There is no, I must leave you because I slept with this other dude.

huh? isn't that 'shoving Richard out of the way' from the creator's POV?

No, because it is Richard's decision to make and in character. Having Richard die however would be a cop-out.