Kingdom of Heaven vs Troy: which sent you to sleep quicker?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I heard the directors cut of Kingdom was 100 times better.

Ha, I am so sick of hearing this. How about, the god damned suits let the DIRECTOR...DIRECT the movie, so the movie that they release, that the DIRECTOR DIRECTED will be the DIRECTOR'S CUT?

Wouldn't that be novel.
Of course now that they can sell you the theatrical version and then a few months later offer you the director's superior version, this will rarely be the case ever again.


either that or they should stop saying "Ridley Scott's....ALIEN" or "Stanley Kubrick's....Eye's Wide Shut" all dramatically with the gravelly voice and should instead say, "Ridley Scott, Herman Shwartz, Vic Bonacci, Timothy Sepulveda, Trina Esterhouse, Glen Wallace, Samuel Dipshicz, Shuki Levy and Toby McGraw's.....ALIEN".

 

[logansoldcigar]

Ha, I am so sick of hearing this. How about, the god damned suits let the DIRECTOR...DIRECT the movie, so the movie that they release, that the DIRECTOR DIRECTED will be the DIRECTOR'S CUT?

Wouldn't that be novel.
Of course now that they can sell you the theatrical version and then a few months later offer you the director's superior version, this will rarely be the case ever again.

happens so much now, i reckon most of the directors are in on it anyway. get a % of sales on the directors cut or something.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

yeah.

I can't sleep so I'm really wishing I had KoH or Troy here right now if they're so boring.

 

[chosen1]

Troy was awesome!

 

[silver_arrow]

none. Orly never bores me. All he needs is stand and everything is right.

 

[LordSimen]

I love both movies and found niether boring in any way, shape or form.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I've just watched them both again and Troy, I have to apologize to, it's a good film, and it kept me intrested if not thrilled.

 

[DACrowe]

Both good flawed films. I'll say this though, Kingdom of heaven had amazing acting and visuals and hte director's cut I think will be genuinely great.

As now, they're just decent.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I'll say this though, Kingdom of heaven had amazing acting and visuals and hte director's cut I think will be genuinely great.

KoH unfortunetly wastes a wonderful group of actors and spends 80% of the time on Orlando Bloom. It takes a hell of an actor to carry an epic on his own, and most epics (like Troy) are ensemble pieces. KoH makes good use of Alexander Siddig, but Jeremy Irons and David Thewlis are completely wasted.

 

[Cinemaman]

I think Gladiator was the best hystorical movie!

 

[unknownuser]

Boredom of Heaven

 

[NOFX]

None of them put me to sleep but Kindom of Heaven is a much better movie, Troy was toooo Hollywood!

 

[jaydawg]

Troy rocked!!

 

[Sava]

Troy was good, best hystorical movie of resent times HAS TO BE Braveheart, simply awesome film

 

[Prognosticator]

Troy. I never felt like I was really going anywhere w/the characters, the story, or the action??!!

But I loved 'kingdom of heaven'. I thought it was great and showed some fantastic if not close to realistic portrayals of people/culture in that time period.

 

[DACrowe]

Troy's script was a mediocre adaptation of The Illiad and Trojan Cycles benefiting from a great eye of a director (Peterson is just good but his eye for directing is phenomenal and eye candy is his trade mark) and I will say that Brad Pitt was much worse than Orlando Bloom was in KOH. And Bloom was worse than Pitt in Troy. What saved that movie was great visuals, stirring action and the turning of Hector into the ultimate tragic hero and such a powerful performance by Eric Bana, who made that movie good along with Peter O'Toole who outacts Brad Pitt times 5 in the greatest scene in the movie and the only scene (besides the Hector vs. Achilles fight) that actually achieves the level of epic it was shooting for (grandiose Hollywood glory a la Ben-Hur and Sparticus).

Kingdom of Heaven was going for a much more naturalistic and quasi-history type film with much more complex and deeper themes. Unfortunately the studio butchered it and only left in the action scenes. For example, did you know Sybilla (played by the lovely Eva Green who was seemingly wasted in the theatrical cut) had a son who she loved and turned out to have lyproacy and after seeing what her dead brother's face looks like drowns her own son and that is the "great evil" she did "for a greater good" and the reason she goes insane at the end?

Makes the movie better right there. That as well as more of Liam Neeson, David Thewlis and Edward Norton are what make me think that the director's cut will be something special.

Kingdom of heaven is (slightly) better written in terms of diologue, has much more complex characters, better overall acting (Liam Neeson, David Thewlis, the actor who plays Saladin whose name escapes me at the moment, the empathetic and memorable Edward Norton, and the underused Jeremy Irons) and a weak lead like Troy (Balian needed a Christian Bale or Ewan McGreggor and got an Orlando Bloom, while he was in over his head he put his heart into it and was believable if boring, unlike Brad Pitt who looked like he was phoning in his performance from 50 miles away and outside of the fight scenes seemed completely bored), however I will say for the simple fact of effort Bloom was better than Pitt in this regard (strange, eh?).

Yet, Troy has much more violence in a much glorifying presesntation (even if the war is presented das wrong the bloodshed is much more celebrated by the camera than the condoning eye in KOH) and without a strong second lead in KOH like Eric Bana, Troy is just more entertaining. However I think Ed Norton as King Baldwain IV is the best performance out of the two movies combined and I think once her scenes are restored Sybilla will easily surpass Kruger's boring Helen and the boring Bresis who was one giant cliche.



Neither are great, both have huge flaws but one is a huge flawed summer popcorn flick with very basic philosophy about war and some awesome violence and nudity and the other is a hugely flawed period piece drama about the nature of religion and war. I like both but once the DC is out I suspect KOH will be better. It already has better cinematography and outside of Bana and O'Toole blows Troy away in acting too.

 

[DACrowe]

P.S. Gladiator is much better than either and Braveheart for that matter as well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Kingdom of Heaven always felt incomplete to me. What is there is good, and in someways very good. But it feels not finished. The Director's Cut is going to be great.

Troy is terrible. How anyone can tell me that is worth watching is beyond me. Outside of Bana it was was almost pain inducing.

 

[Movies205]

Ridley Scott is the one who made the cuts to Kingdom of Heaven after a bad screening of it, then when the movie came out and it was hacked to pieces and no one liked it, the DC showed it's head... At least this is what I read somewhere a while ago so perhaps this isn't true but I'm sure it is. Whether or not the studios would have forced Ridley Scott to change it, well who knows.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ridley Scott is the one who made the cuts to Kingdom of Heaven after a bad screening of it, then when the movie came out and it was hacked to pieces and no one liked it, the DC showed it's head... At least this is what I read somewhere a while ago so perhaps this isn't true but I'm sure it is. Whether or not the studios would have forced Ridley Scott to change it, well who knows.

What i read was that the film was butchered by the studio and Scott and few of the actors were quite pissed. But hey who really knows.

 

[Obsidian]

Ridley Scott is the one who made the cuts to Kingdom of Heaven after a bad screening of it, then when the movie came out and it was hacked to pieces and no one liked it, the DC showed it's head... At least this is what I read somewhere a while ago so perhaps this isn't true but I'm sure it is. Whether or not the studios would have forced Ridley Scott to change it, well who knows.

Apparently the studio demanded the movie be shorter so that there would be more showings of the film, hence more money. Plan backfired though

 

[Movies205]

I believe the studio story but I'm pretty sure I read something along those lines and I might be getting the stories mixed up with another movie, who knows.

 

[herakles]

With the exception of the Akhilles Hektor fight Troy sucked ass!! Kingdom was not much better but at least it wasn't a halfass attempt as was Troy IMO

 

[WormyT]

I think KOH is a better film but at the time of its release, everyone was burnt out on sandles and swords, and Pretty Boy just hasn't got the carisma to carry a movie this big.

 

[JOELLY]

Troy was great, but the drama could be shorter.Kingdom of Heaven wasnt that good,but it did look beautiful.