Logan Logan - news & discussion - Part 3

[BlueLanternKal]

We live in a post 2012 Avenger's World

And who gets to decide that Avengers is the be-all? You? What if a film maker dreamed of filming something other than what society had intended? What if a film maker aspired to something greater?

 

[X-Maniac]

And who gets to decide that Avengers is the be-all? You? What if a film maker dreamed of filming something other than what society had intended? What if a film maker aspired to something greater?

It's a franchise, a series consisting of sequels and prequels and spin-offs involving the continuing/preceding adventures of the same characters. In what wacko world does that not involve planning and co-ordination?

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I'm speaking broadly here. I'm not saying that these films shouldn't connect to each other. I'm saying that they should be able to stand on their own first and foremost and shouldn't be shackled by what comes before or after.

Mangold's "200 million dollar episode" critique rings true. If I had skipped 4-5 movies before Civil War how much of that would make sense to me? How invested would I be able to get? I thought Civil War was average at best because of that. Also that it wasn't a Captain America film, but Avengers 2.5.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

And who gets to decide that Avengers is the be-all? You?

The 10 billion in world wide box office return in 8 years compared to X-Men's 4 billion in 16 . The people have clearly spoken.

What if a film maker aspired to something greater?

That's why we're stuck with Singer's **** universe in the first place.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Glad you ignored what I wrote after. Complacency and being derivative is what killed the Western. I don't want that happening to the Comic Book genre.

And people don't often know what they want until they get it.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm speaking broadly here. I'm not saying that these films shouldn't connect to each other. I'm saying that they should be able to stand on their own first and foremost and shouldn't be shackled by what comes before or after.

Mangold's "200 million dollar episode" critique rings true. If I had skipped 4-5 movies before Civil War how much of that would make sense to me? How invested would I be able to get? I thought Civil War was average at best because of that. Also that it wasn't a Captain America film, but Avengers 2.5.

I wasn't blown away by Civil War or Age of Ultron but the bigger picture shows that fans, critics and audiences were definitely interested, invested and responding well:

Avengers: Age of Ultron - RT score 75 per cent, WW box office $1.4 billion
Captain America: Civil War - RT score 90 per cent, WW box office $1.1 billion

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I wasn't blown away by Civil War or Age of Ultron but the bigger picture shows that fans, critics and audiences were definitely interested, invested and responding well:

Avengers: Age of Ultron - RT score 75 per cent, WW box office $1.4 billion
Captain America: Civil War - RT score 90 per cent, WW box office $1.1 billion

And I raise you a Deadpool. We wouldn't have gotten that if Fox had played it safe.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I'm speaking broadly here. I'm not saying that these films shouldn't connect to each other. I'm saying that they should be able to stand on their own first and foremost and shouldn't be shackled by what comes before or after.

I am pretty sure this is the frame of mind of FOX and the Producers.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Glad you ignored what I wrote after.

I answered perfectly.


FoX doesnt care about X-MEN or any of the characters in it.

They bought X-MEN IP because the Animated Series was popular on FoX.

They only care about profit from these movies.


So if another company has lapped them in profits in half the time that's a problem.


X-Men need to Evolve. They've grossed 3rd to Marvel & DC every time they come out with movies the same year. The ****s stale and when they go away from Singer's model they get praised Logan/Deadpool

X-Men is a weak franchise when people care about spin offs more than the main IP

And people don't often know what they want until they get it.

Well they obviously prefer other comic book movies after getting Singer based X-MEN movies all these years

And I raise you a Deadpool. We wouldn't have gotten that if Fox had played it safe.

FoX didn't want to make that movie that's a fact. Deadpool earning more than Apoclypse shows how much X-MEN is a failure under Fox. Especially when the loudest joke reactions came when Deadpool makes FUN OF FoX & X-Men. There's a problem

 

[LoganPool]

I'm speaking broadly here. I'm not saying that these films shouldn't connect to each other. I'm saying that they should be able to stand on their own first and foremost and shouldn't be shackled by what comes before or after.

Mangold's "200 million dollar episode" critique rings true. If I had skipped 4-5 movies before Civil War how much of that would make sense to me? How invested would I be able to get? I thought Civil War was average at best because of that. Also that it wasn't a Captain America film, but Avengers 2.5.

Then you weren't paying attention. This isn't the place to talk about it, but Captain America is the focus of the entire movie. The other "Avengers" got about 25 minutes. Definitely not an Avengers 2.5.

Ok, carry on.

 

[Filmfan93]

The 10 billion in world wide box office return in 8 years compared to X-Men's 4 billion in 16 . The people have clearly spoken.

Exactly this. Sorry to disappoint, but Avengers IS the go-to when it comes to benchmarking in the superhero genre. It does continuity and consistency better than Fox, DC or anyone else in the superhero genre.

And it has paid off both BO and critically-wise.

 

[The Endless]

you may find it hard to believe but some X-Men fans don't think don't think deadpool is greatest film of all time or think deadpool is be all of x universe.

nobody hear is defending last stand or origins but some who want to piss on
franchise inless it's deadpool doesn't want to let it go.

colossus is nothing more than one big joke ind eadpool and punching bag for villains.and deadpool does same except thing that others complain about other films piss on contunity.

Deadpool is the best X-Men related film for me. It fully embraces everything about the X-Men even whilst taking the piss. It is also the most successful. Comfortably.

Singer still thinks it's the early 2000s. He hasn't evolved and he STILL stuffs his films with cardboard cut outs with super powers. How many great X-Men characters has he wasted?

Colossus was an actual character with a personality in Deadpool. Tim Miller and his team did more justice tof Colossus in one film than Singer ever did.

 

[2kt09]

Deadpool didn't undo Wolverine Origins entirely. Some parts of the movie still exist in the timeline like:

with the butterfly effect it's entirely selective, especially when the timetravel you've [DOFP] utilized involves stepping into other universes where the history is different from the start.

Why I said the X-Men universe beat The Flash to the punch.

-Wolverine meeting William Stryker (based on their brief encounter in DOFP).
AND
-the weapon X experiment (based on Wolverine's cameo in X-men: Apocalypse).

These events occur differently and at different points in their lives.

Apocalypse also showed Cyclops and Quicksilver reliving the same events as WO so in a way, the film was never erased just like X1 wasn't erased after hearing what the Logan trailer just told us.

I don't recall Quicksilver in WO. Cyclops isn't captured by Sabretooth (whom he seemed to recognize), nor is he escaping the facility with Emma Frost.
While those events could still occur after the revised Wpn X scene, there are still some crucial details that keep them from happening.
How he meets Xavier for the first time is different.
Victor would have to stop by the Xavier Institute.

 

[Snikt]

The thing with the MCU making over $10 billion is as you said, a different time. Pretty much any MCU film post Avengers is making $500 million plus worldwide. The X-Men films since then have been keeping up in terms of Box Office.

Since 2012, The Wolverine made $414 million WW, DOFP made $747 million WW, Deadpool made $782 million WW and Apocalypse made $543 million WW.

All in line with MCU films. Prior to Avengers, their biggest hits (rightfully so) were the Iron Man films (which both made more than any other X-Men film).

Captain America, The Incredible Hulk and Thor all made less than X3.

But as you said, post Avengers, it's a different world. Plus the MCU is releasing more films than FOX. So of course they're making more money. And I won't deny Apocalypse would've more money had it been a better film

 

[JEM]

Just one thing: 200 million domestic in 2000 the same thing that 200 million in 2016. Adjusted with inflation, X3 made $304,492,300, X2 $303,353,500, X1 $248,352,600.

If we talk about audience, X3 and X2 sold nearly same amount a ticket that Iron Man 1, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool.

So people say X-Men Franchise was never a phenomenon are revisionist.
In 2000's, big 3 were Spiderman, Batman and X-Men.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Deadpool is the best X-Men related film for me. It fully embraces everything about the X-Men even whilst taking the piss. It is also the most successful. Comfortably.

Singer still thinks it's the early 2000s. He hasn't evolved and he STILL stuffs his films with cardboard cut outs with super powers. How many great X-Men characters has he wasted?

Colossus was an actual character with a personality in Deadpool. Tim Miller and his team did more justice tof Colossus in one film than Singer ever did.

Singer isn't even directing anymore.colossus is nothing more than a joke in deadpool.Deadpool doesn't embrace anything about X-men.there is nothing that says in deadpool mutants face any discrimnation at all.

 

[GuestStar2004]

There is nothing that says in deadpool mutants face any discrimnation at all.

It depends how much discrimination you are expecting in the X-Men universe.

Ways of life change through the decades and attitudes along with it but discrimination never truly disappears.

 

[The Endless]

If all X-Men stories have to be about discrimination etc then well... there's your problem right there. It's just same old same old. People are bored of that ****. 5 ****ing movies with the same themes... yaaaawn.

And Colossus wasn't a joke in Deadpool. He had a fully formed personality. What was he in Singers films? Basically a mute. His "4 or 5 moments" speech at the end of Deadpool elevates the character beyond anything Singer did with the character.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Just one thing: 200 million domestic in 2000 the same thing that 200 million in 2016. Adjusted with inflation, X3 made $304,492,300, X2 $303,353,500, X1 $248,352,600.

If we talk about audience, X3 and X2 sold nearly same amount a ticket that Iron Man 1, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool.

So people say X-Men Franchise was never a phenomenon are revisionist.
In 2000's, big 3 were Spiderman, Batman and X-Men.

very true.one of things to consider if first class cast just isn't as appealing to
domestic general audence the way original cast was.even the 75 million budget X-Men when adjusted for inflation grossed more than 200 million budgeted DOFP.so for only DOFP and deadpool has appealed to general audences domesticly.If logan beats First class and Apocalypse domestic box office that is further indictment of first class cast appeal.

some don't want X_men to have ever be seen as successful.there atitude is for fox to give it to disney so X-Men can be sucessful finaly.

Even the much maligned amazing spider-man 2 did better domesticly than first class or apocalypse.

as for franchises of the 200's a shame fox was so cheap under rothman that is went for prequels that led to new timeline reboot feauturing cast that doesn't appeal to ga.just as shame spider-man is now avengers supporting character where his outfit and most of equipment comes from stark and stark shows up in his own film.spider-man doesn't in this contunity even get a origin.just as shame after acclaimed dark knight trilogy batman is holding to life the terrable DCEU

 

[marvelrobbins]

If all X-Men stories have to be about discrimination etc then well... there's your problem right there. It's just same old same old.

And Colossus wasn't a joke in Deadpool. He had a fully formed personality. What was he in Singers films? Basically a mute.

X_Men is uspose to be relcuent heroes sworn to defend a world that hates and fears then not about jokes.and colossus was total joke in deadpool.I get with deadpool breaking the fourth wall and deadpool being comedy everything is suspose to be joke but problem is when people put everything on deadpool as great and say all other x films are crap.

 

[The Endless]

X_Men is uspose to be relcuent heroes sworn to defend a world that hates and fears then not about jokes.and colossus was total joke in deadpool.I get with deadpool breaking the fourth wall and deadpool being comedy everything is suspose to be joke but problem is when people put everything on deadpool as great and say all other x films are crap.

No, Deadpool treats Colossus as a joke... because that's in the nature of the character.

Colossus was stoic and righteous... he even tried to appeal to the good buried within Wade. He was a fully formed character.

I'd say Singer treated him as a joke by using him as a mute card board cut out with super powers... like most of the mutants in Singers films.

Deadpool might have been a violent and juvenile film. But it had heart and treated the characters with respect. The film makers weren't ashamed of the bizarre and colourful side to the comics.

 

[marvelrobbins]

DOFP (1973) -> Apocalypse (1983) -> Deadpool (201X) -> DOFP (2023) -> LOGAN (2029)

added first Class(1962) and you have timeline of the films untill the post logan films come about.

 

[marvelrobbins]

No, Deadpool treats Colossus as a joke... because that's in the nature of the character.

Colossus was stoic and righteous... he even tried to appeal to the good buried within Wade. He was a fully formed character.

I'd say Singer treated him as a joke by using him as a mute card board cut out with super powers... like most of the mutants in Singers films.

Deadpool might have been a violent and juvenile film. But it had heart and treated the characters with respect. The film makers weren't ashamed of the bizarre and colourful side to the comics.

I would rather colossus be member of X-Men than as punching bag for vilains and but of deadpool's jokes.

 

[GuestStar2004]

No, Deadpool treats Colossus as a joke... because that's in the nature of the character.

Colossus was stoic and righteous... he even tried to appeal to the good buried within Wade. He was a fully formed character.

Well Colossus was used for comedy a fair bit and i dunno whether that made him out to be a joke or not because of that as the part that always comes to mind for me was colossus giving the rightous speech to convince deadpool to do the right thing and not kill the guy and i remember straight away knowing deadpool was just gonna shoot the guy during the speech because it would be funny and of course deadpool shot the guy and colossus threw up while being all BUT WHY? I GAVE THE RIGHTOUS SPEECH!

They gave him personality yeah but was it for the right reason or for deadpool? i dunno.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

They gave him personality yeah but was it for the right reason or for deadpool? i dunno.

Colossus Singer Dialogue

X2 "I can help you!" That's all he said

X3 Can't remember but definitely wasnt anything special

In DoFP he said one word "Mystique"


God I hate the singer verse

there is nothing that says in deadpool mutants face any discrimnation at all.

"****ing Mutant's"

That's at the very beginning of Deadpool