Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[T'Jai]

gimmie 5 mins on 1, 2 ain't that far off but we'll get into it and seeing as how the majority of Americans in power are white, it doesn't take a majority

 

[mwm1331]

Dude, look at your sig, if that's your thoughts...

"ooh, I can offend people on a mass scale!"

So becasue I chose not to hide my views as many american x-pats who were living overseas did at the time I am somehow unitelligent?
The simple fact is I saw no reason to hide my own views when others were demonstrating for the explicit purpose of making their known. Why should i not respond to the preponderance of "America is the worlds greatest sponser of terrorism" shirts i saw while there? Becasue my views might ofend them? They had no concern that theirs might offend me, what makes me less worthy of expression?
Again you show an inabillity to discuss a subject rationally without resorting to sophistic comments or ad himinem attacks.
Either address the issues we are discussing, or leave the adults alone, and go play at the kiddie table.

 

[Varient]

he's gonna make me do it...

Don't go there,.. it's obvious he lives in a place truly isolated.

Consider,.. he's asking about terms,.. not actions or doublespeak.

Whites don't say "our people" they say "Our kind" or "those like us"

Whites don't have to call any place "vanilla city" I can Point to places in EVERY MAJOR CITY where whites , (not well off, not military, not government, not corporate - BUT WHITES), have All white communities that Minorities have yet to live there - I only know they exist due to my dealings in Law enforcement. Entire communities of upper middleclass and above that don't talk isolation,.. they network and do "vanilla city."

All his points are from the position of someone who just does not know.

Consider the "lack of support" for Obama? THE poster puts us all as being wrong for not being monoethnic,...

You ask a Black what they mean by "not Black enough" and most of the answers come down to "culture".
He's not been where a lot of blacks are and those blacks don't feel he would have their best interests at heart because of it. The poster labels this as "racism".

Consider also how he ignores the main reason why we have organizations that start with "black" or exclude "whites".

Each and every one of those organizations were formed because blacks were either excluded from the white version of the same organization OR they were formed to PROTECT the black community from something that the white community remained obtuse on.

Why is it racist for blacks to form a blacks only organization in direct response from being refused access to a white one?
????

His entire mindset is scary on his blindness to cause and effect.

 

[hippy fascist]

So becasue I chose not to hide my views as many american x-pats who were living overseas did at the time I am somehow unitelligent?
The simple fact is I saw no reason to hide my own views when others were demonstrating for the explicit purpose of making their known. Why should i not respond to the preponderance of "America is the worlds greatest sponser of terrorism" shirts i saw while there? Becasue my views might ofend them? They had no concern that theirs might offend me, what makes me less worthy of expression?
Again you show an inabillity to discuss a subject rationally without resorting to sophistic comments or ad himinem attacks.
Either address the issues we are discussing, or leave the adults alone, and go play at the kiddie table.

Your "views" were intended to get a reaction.

America IS the worlds greatest sponsor of terrorism. Or do you not remember their funding of the IRA, the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein?

 

[T'Jai]

Dammit Varient beat me 2 it... but I will add soon as my call is dun.

 

[mwm1331]

Don't go there,.. it's obvious he lives in a place truly isolated.

If south florida can be considered truly isolted then you are correct. Hoever givent hat WHites were (and still are) a minority in miami, (where I gre up) and barely a majortiy where I curently live ( fort lauderdale) I don't think you can make a rational case for this assertion.

Consider,.. he's asking about terms,.. not actions or doublespeak.

Whites don't say "our people" they say "Our kind" or "those like us"

Not from muy experience, If that were the case I would have mentioned it becasue the terms are analagous.

Whites don't have to call any place "vanilla city" I can Point to places in EVERY MAJOR CITY where whites , (not well off, not military, not government, not corporate - BUT WHITES), have All white communities that Minorities have yet to live there - I only know they exist due to my dealings in Law enforcement. Entire communities of upper middleclass and above that don't talk isolation,.. they network and do "vanilla city."

The same can be said for blacks, asians, latinos etc.
There are neighborhoods here that are all muslims of middel easten descent, which are by far the smalles minority in America.

All his points are from the position of someone who just does not know.

Consider the "lack of support" for Obama? THE poster puts us all as being wrong for not being monoethnic,...

No I was pointing out the reason for his lack of support. Whihc is inherantly racist. Sorry but "not being black enough" is not even a real reason.

You ask a Black what they mean by "not Black enough" and most of the answers come down to "culture".
He's not been where a lot of blacks are and those blacks don't feel he would have their best interests at heart because of it. The poster labels this as "racism".

I grew up in a black majority neighborhood as one of very few whites.

Consider also how he ignores the main reason why we have organizations that start with "black" or exclude "whites".

Each and every one of those organizations were formed because blacks were either excluded from the white version of the same organization OR they were formed to PROTECT the black community from something that the white community remained obtuse on.

And yet when those who have the same goals ask to join they are excluded, not becasue they are obtuse, or predators, but becasue they are not black.

Why is it racist for blacks to form a blacks only organization in direct response from being refused access to a white one?
????

Racism, even if reactionary is still racism.

His entire mindset is scary on his blindness to cause and effect.

Not in the least, However I do challenge the validity of employing as an effect the casue which led to that effect in the first place. You seem to belive the correct response to racism is racism, which is simply irrational.

 

[mwm1331]

Your "views" were intended to get a reaction.

And a mass protest/demonstrationis not?

America IS the worlds greatest sponsor of terrorism. Or do you not remember their funding of the IRA, the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein?

Nighty night.

 

[Darthphere]

Is this the Klan meeting? Oh snap, wrong thread.

 

[T'Jai]

If south florida can be considered truly isolted then you are correct. Hoever givent hat WHites were (and still are) a minority in miami, (where I gre up) and barely a majortiy where I curently live ( fort lauderdale) I don't think you can make a rational case for this assertion.



Not from muy experience, If that were the case I would have mentioned it becasue the terms are analagous.

The same can be said for blacks, asians, latinos etc.
There are neighborhoods here that are all muslims of middel easten descent, which are by far the smalles minority in America.



No I was pointing out the reason for his lack of support. Whihc is inherantly racist. Sorry but "not being black enough" is not even a real reason.

I grew up in a black majority neighborhood as one of very few whites.


And yet when those who have the same goals ask to join they are excluded, not becasue they are obtuse, or predators, but becasue they are not black.

Racism, even if reactionary is still racism.



Not in the least, However I do challenge the validity of employing as an effect the casue which led to that effect in the first place. You seem to belive the correct response to racism is racism, which is simply irrational.

just to start an interesting part of your viewpoint is that reversed it is exactly that of reactionary blacks...

 

[mwm1331]

just to start an interesting part of your viewpoint is that reversed it is exactly that of reactionary blacks...

In what way?
I ma not calling for racial preferences to protect "the white race" nor do I belive in racially segregated organisations. I am not asking for privaleges or preferences and merely want to end the pass given to black racism. IMO all ameicans should be held to the same standards.
I aslo don't belive that whites are on the whole being opressed by blacks, allthough i recognise that behavior analagous to the behavior of jim crow era whies is being perpetrated in predomiantly black neighborhoods.
If anything my comments are motiated by the desire to see all americans view themselves as americans rather than as "insert race here"a americans.
My issue is that as Black racism becomes more and more prevalent, especially the truly destructive victim-centric racism, Blacks are placing themselves further and further from any type of chance of success. The stigma against "acting white" hurts blacks the most. As the does the current thug-life persona many adopt in an attempt to be "authentically black"
Personally I want to see an end to there being such a thing as "white americans" or "Black amerians" because o me theres only two types of people, Americans, and Non.
However based on what i can see the biggest stubleing block to a "color-blind" America today is blacks themselves.

 

[hippy fascist]

And a mass protest/demonstrationis not?

It's intended to get attention for the truth. Something the bush administration has tride to squash at every step.

Nighty night.

That's documented FACT. You can't win that one so the sarcasm comes out...

 

[mwm1331]

It's intended to get attention for the truth. Something the bush administration has tride to squash at every step.

Uhhuh. Nighty night, go play and let the grown ups talk kay?

That's documented FACT. You can't win that one so the sarcasm comes out...

Uhuh.
Nighty night.

 

[hippy fascist]

Uhhuh. Nighty night, go play and let the grown ups talk kay?


Uhuh.
Nighty night.

Seriously, you're going to accuse me of being childish after pulling out the "la, la,la, I'm not not listening" routine?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm

http://www.upmj.co.uk/No GUns No GOv.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,,551037,00.html

Try reading something that hasn't been vetoed to **** by the bush administration. The facts are there, you just don't want to believe them...

 

[Varient]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varient
Don't go there,.. it's obvious he lives in a place truly isolated.

If south florida can be considered truly isolted then you are correct. Hoever givent hat WHites were (and still are) a minority in miami, (where I gre up) and barely a majortiy where I curently live ( fort lauderdale) I don't think you can make a rational case for this assertion.

This of course is only your opinion as one person in ONE place,.. I speak of twenty years serving all over the country where I was exposed to a much larger enviroment than you've claimed to date,... I believe it makes my believe that you really don't have enough to speak on this "viable". You Preface EVERYTHING you say with "in fort Lauderdale" and you'll not here a peep from me.

Quote:
Consider,.. he's asking about terms,.. not actions or doublespeak.

Whites don't say "our people" they say "Our kind" or "those like us"

Not from muy experience, If that were the case I would have mentioned it becasue the terms are analagous.

Again I bring to your attention where you live vice where I've been,... I add that in addition to my years in the military I was raised as a Military Brat,.. and lived in six states before I left home,...So I know I have a more data to pull from than you do on this topic. Outside of your bubble,.. I've heard too many whites use the terms I've coined.

Quote:
Whites don't have to call any place "vanilla city" I can Point to places in EVERY MAJOR CITY where whites , (not well off, not military, not government, not corporate - BUT WHITES), have All white communities that Minorities have yet to live there - I only know they exist due to my dealings in Law enforcement. Entire communities of upper middleclass and above that don't talk isolation,.. they network and do "vanilla city."

The same can be said for blacks, asians, latinos etc.
There are neighborhoods here that are all muslims of middel easten descent, which are by far the smalles minority in America.

Nope,.. you misunderstand, (probably on purpose), There are COMMUNITIES in AMERICA where they are COMPOSED of WHITES soliciting ONLY whites to join their communities where it would take GOVERNMENT intervention for a Minority to move into those neighborhoods.
Whereas the "black, asian's, and latino" communities are formed based on LACK of money or employment,.. Whites can EASILY move into those communities w/o anyone trying to obstruct them.

And before you make the ignorant statement that they don't because it wouldn't be safe - I'll say I was Born in North Philly and we had a black community with whites living amongst us. The only whites there that I saw getting beat on either put on a tude or ran with a gang who then stepped on someone elses "turf".


Quote:
All his points are from the position of someone who just does not know.

Consider the "lack of support" for Obama? THE poster puts us all as being wrong for not being monoethnic,...

No I was pointing out the reason for his lack of support. Whihc is inherantly racist. Sorry but "not being black enough" is not even a real reason.
SIGH

Quote:
You ask a Black what they mean by "not Black enough" and most of the answers come down to "culture".
He's not been where a lot of blacks are and those blacks don't feel he would have their best interests at heart because of it. The poster labels this as "racism".
I grew up in a black majority neighborhood as one of very few whites.
And? It's still not racism to say that someone can't relate with where you come from,... otherwise I could call you racist.

Quote:
Consider also how he ignores the main reason why we have organizations that start with "black" or exclude "whites".

Each and every one of those organizations were formed because blacks were either excluded from the white version of the same organization OR they were formed to PROTECT the black community from something that the white community remained obtuse on.

And yet when those who have the same goals ask to join they are excluded, not becasue they are obtuse, or predators, but becasue they are not black.
What are you missing here? Why should ANY minority accept or allow whites who share the same views or goals into their organizations formed because of the exclusion of minorities from the white equivs?
It's like you saying that the Black Panther Party,.. originally formed to protect the black community from groups like the KKK should let Whites patrol our neighborhoods with guns while the KKK outside of Canada has YET to recruit a blackman in any capacity. You show a definative change to society where these "black" groups are not needed and they will "go away" there would be no need to "intergrate" or allow Whites to join,.. because the WHITE organizations that caused their formation would have an open door policy.

Quote:
Why is it racist for blacks to form a blacks only organization in direct response from being refused access to a white one?
????
Racism, even if reactionary is still racism.
Oooookay,.. so any response in self defense is "racist" Hooboy,.. that is twisted. You believe that even though your own may do dirt,.. that minorities are just as wrong for not letting you do as your people obstruct or prevent us to do. scary.


Quote:
His entire mindset is scary on his blindness to cause and effect.
Not in the least, However I do challenge the validity of employing as an effect the casue which led to that effect in the first place. You seem to belive the correct response to racism is racism, which is simply irrational.

No,.. these are your labels for reactions that have brought us to where we are today. The organizations you call "racist" made it possible for us to have this conversation. They formed their own colleges when whites were not letting us in,.. they formed groups in the empty place where whites were quite happy with the status quo to give blacks the same opertunities that whites take for granted. Based on the track record of your people as a group,.. they don't believe that having you in these groups would be any sort of improvement.
You can challenge the concept,.. but you are in error for believing as you do because it comes from a position of not having gone through the stuff that the people you have isuue with have.

Thats all.

peace

 

[T'Jai]

After this opening line I see need for further comment.
None taken. This is all based on my personal experience. However I see little evidence of widespread racism among whites, as opposed to a lot for widespread racism among the majortiy of blacks.

by your very own statements you have invalidated this comment, as you live in a predominantly non-white area

Think about it, how many black leaders in politics use "my people" to refer only to blacks?

dunno haven't heard that much of late please give me some examples... and I need Black political figures (read active in politics a.k.a.holding some sort of office) not celebs that they throw on camera every time there is a black issue

How many times do you hear some underecated unintellgible idiot complain that everything bad that happens to him is becasue "all whites are racists"?(which is ironic given that it is in and of itself a racist comment)

quite often actually and I ask you how many of the reporters holding the mike in those situations is black...hmmm

Even the lack of support for obama for not being "black enough" indicates the belief that "blacks" and "whites" are two seperate communities rather than two ethnically diverse parts of the same community.

actually it indicates that many blacks believe he is not immersed in the culture enough to be concerned with what they would call our issues there by eliminating his attractiveness as a potentially sympathetic candidate

Look at the Congressional Black caucaus which refuses to allow any non-whites to join, even those who have the same politcal and social goals. Is this not the same behavior that was enforced via the jim crow laws of yesteryear?

negative, cause the black caucus is still a minority and limited in it's ability to effect change

From what I can see white youths in black neighborhoods suffer far more racially based violence and discrimination than black youths in white neigborhoods.

reactionary violence something I despise and it does happen to blacks in more subtle cutting ways

Now much of what I am pointing to is adnecdotal which I freely admit. But the idea of a "white peoples" is delegated to the fringes of american culture, only to be espoused by the most ignorant, yet save for a few notable exceptions,

because in it of itself White culture is american culture that's like me asking if I can get support behind "black" hip hop

the idea of the "black peoples" as a seperate group is heavily prevalent. IMO it goes far beyond a simple concept of "racial identity" (which I would find problematic enough given its biological inaccuracy) to a form of racial superiority.

most of these individuals are actually reaching for racial equality, defining themselves by the "blackness" that they feel they have been defined by (again not that I agree with it)

Others may disagree with these observations, as is thier right,

it's not so much the statements you make more the context under which you perceive them

however when was the last time you heard of a White mayor refusing to hire blacks as was the case (in reverse) recently in chicago?

not familiar with the case please point out a related link

When was the last time you heard a white politcal leader calling for a "vanilla city" as was the case recently in New Orleans.

are you talking about the city that was recently flooded and left to sit in it's own ...juices for five days before any federal aid came to assist you know the black "looters" as opposed to the white "foragers", now why would they want their community to pull together?

When was the last time you have heard any white, accuse any other, of not being "white enough" as is the case with Obama, Gumbel, Cosby, and in truth virtually any other black who is well spoken, educate, and a successful professional that does not fit into the sterotype of "blackness" in America today?

not sure how that's relevant to the point I believe you are trying to make, but to be honest the not really black thing started on the other side of the color line and was actually developed as a tool to control slaves by causing them to police themselves and make controlling them that much easier it's a house ****** field ****** thing that has survived sown through the ages and is just as often if not more often touted by non blacks...

 

[hippy fascist]

The weird thing is, up until 2 days ago I didn't even know varient was black!

People like mwm would have us believe that most black people are rascist and have a martyr complex but how is that possible if I have had many conversations with varient over the last 9 months and never realised.

Maybe, because he doesn't make a big deal about his race unless someone does something to cause it?

Likewise with anubis (till 2 months ago I had no idea)

Also, dude, you're going to deny the facts about america arming terrorists for which there is evidence, yet you make up a stat that 5% of white people are rascist on the spot and that's supposed to be taken as fact?

 

[mwm1331]

Seriously, you're going to accuse me of being childish after pulling out the "la, la,la, I'm not not listening" routine?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm

http://www.upmj.co.uk/No GUns No GOv.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,,551037,00.html

Try reading something that hasn't been vetoed to **** by the bush administration. The facts are there, you just don't want to believe them...

I really tried to give you a chance to walk away and you were too stupid to take it.

First of all the US never fundeed the IRA. Citizens, primarily of Irish descent, Primarily form the boston area did. Even then it was never direct as the funding went not to the IRA but too Sin Fein, which was a legtimate politcal wing with reps sitting in the english parliment.

Second in regards to OBL we funded, equipped, and trained many Mujhaeddin, during the Afghanistan war, since they were fighting against an agressive attempt to take over thier country.

The Iran/Iraq war was a situation in which we supported Saddam as the lesser of two evils as The iranian regime had already perpertrated an act of war against us. Furthermore while he was by no shakes a "nice guy" he had recently won the nobel peace prize and his propensity to slaughter his citzens were not well known. Once they came to light we ended our support of his regime.

Finally even if all of these "examples" were used as proof they still pale in comparison to the funding of terrosits elements doen by the Soviet Union during the clod war, all of which fit the defintion of terrorism far better as they were actusl insurgency forces attempting to overthrow the legitmate governments of the day, as opposed to a rebellion against a foreign invasion, (afgahnistan) or a sovereign recognised governemnt fighting a foreign enemy who had not yet committed acts of war against us (Iraq, by virtue of the 1992 cease fire agreements, had already given us legal justification for going to war with them before Bush ever took office)

This is why I said you should leave the conversation to the grown ups, like all children you lack the abillity to look at issues in context of the times in which they happened, or the circumstances. Or to even know the facts pertaining to what you are talking about.

Furthermore, your assertion that the peace protests were an attempt to disseminate the "truth" shows a basic lack of honesty in matters in which the "truth" is a subjective princimple. Like i said before, go back to the kiddie table, the adults are talking.

 

[T'Jai]

In what way?
I ma not calling for racial preferences to protect "the white race" nor do I belive in racially segregated organisations. I am not asking for privaleges or preferences and merely want to end the pass given to black racism. IMO all ameicans should be held to the same standards.
I aslo don't belive that whites are on the whole being opressed by blacks, allthough i recognise that behavior analagous to the behavior of jim crow era whies is being perpetrated in predomiantly black neighborhoods.
If anything my comments are motiated by the desire to see all americans view themselves as americans rather than as "insert race here"a americans.
My issue is that as Black racism becomes more and more prevalent, especially the truly destructive victim-centric racism, Blacks are placing themselves further and further from any type of chance of success. The stigma against "acting white" hurts blacks the most. As the does the current thug-life persona many adopt in an attempt to be "authentically black"
Personally I want to see an end to there being such a thing as "white americans" or "Black amerians" because o me theres only two types of people, Americans, and Non.
However based on what i can see the biggest stubleing block to a "color-blind" America today is blacks themselves.

this statement does not match the tone of your previous posts

you come off (to me) as seeing yourself as oppressed by the favoritism shown to and by blacks for blacks
in many places your statements come off (to me) as accusatory and biased not concerned and hopeful
IMO your inability to see the live and well state of racism today blinds you to the reactionary (which still doesn't make it right) nature of many of the areas that house your complaints

and who controls the music business and what you see on TV blacks... not likely the decision makers base there moves primarily on the cash it will generate right now and with the sales figures that the "thug" image produce it's gonna take us a while to shake that ( take a moment to look at the demographics buying these albums as well might surprise you)

 

[T'Jai]

I really tried to give you a chance to walk away and you were too stupid to take it.

First of all the US never fundeed the IRA. Citizens, primarily of Irish descent, Primarily form the boston area did. Even then it was never direct as the funding went not to the IRA but too Sin Fein, which was a legtimate politcal wing with reps sitting in the english parliment.

Second in regards to OBL we funded, equipped, and trained many Mujhaeddin, during the Afghanistan war, since they were fighting against an agressive attempt to take over thier country.

The Iran/Iraq war was a situation in which we supported Saddam as the lesser of two evils as The iranian regime had already perpertrated an act of war against us. Furthermore while he was by no shakes a "nice guy" he had recently won the nobel peace prize and his propensity to slaughter his citzens were not well known. Once they came to light we ended our support of his regime.

Finally even if all of these "examples" were used as proof they still pale in comparison to the funding of terrosits elements doen by the Soviet Union during the clod war, all of which fit the defintion of terrorism far better as they were actusl insurgency forces attempting to overthrow the legitmate governments of the day, as opposed to a rebellion against a foreign invasion, (afgahnistan) or a sovereign recognised governemnt fighting a foreign enemy who had not yet committed acts of war against us (Iraq, by virtue of the 1992 cease fire agreements, had already given us legal justification for going to war with them before Bush ever took office)

This is why I said you should leave the conversation to the grown ups, like all children you lack the abillity to look at issues in context of the times in which they happened, or the circumstances. Or to even know the facts pertaining to what you are talking about.

Furthermore, your assertion that the peace protests were an attempt to disseminate the "truth" shows a basic lack of honesty in matters in which the "truth" is a subjective princimple. Like i said before, go back to the kiddie table, the adults are talking.

in all seriousness what happen to non reactionary?

 

[T'Jai]

...great where the hell is he!?!

well it's bout 10 am and I ain't slept yet hit u poozers in a few...

 

[mwm1331]

This of course is only your opinion as one person in ONE place,.. I speak of twenty years serving all over the country where I was exposed to a much larger enviroment than you've claimed to date,... I believe it makes my believe that you really don't have enough to speak on this "viable". You Preface EVERYTHING you say with "in fort Lauderdale" and you'll not here a peep from me.

No I was impl pointing oput that your, "he from a isolated area" comment was innacurate. I have lived to date, In South Florida, Pennslyvania, New York, Texas, New Orleans, Georgia, and Tennessee.

Again I bring to your attention where you live vice where I've been,... I add that in addition to my years in the military I was raised as a Military Brat,.. and lived in six states before I left home,...So I know I have a more data to pull from than you do on this topic. Outside of your bubble,.. I've heard too many whites use the terms I've coined.[/COLOR]

See above.

Nope,.. you misunderstand, (probably on purpose), There are COMMUNITIES in AMERICA where they are COMPOSED of WHITES soliciting ONLY whites to join their communities where it would take GOVERNMENT intervention for a Minority to move into those neighborhoods. Whereas the "black, asian's, and latino" communities are formed based on LACK of money or employment,.. Whites can EASILY move into those communities w/o anyone trying to obstruct them.

No I didn't.
I can point to racially self segregated areas that are middle class as well. I also have a greatd deal of trouble beliveing that whites in an area could exercise that much control over whom a seller sells his hometo. There is an entire town in central florida that is all black. (then again we have a town which is built at half size becasue all of the residents are mifgets. ) and it isn't due to a lack of economic opportunity.

And before you make the ignorant statement that they don't because it wouldn't be safe - I'll say I was Born in North Philly and we had a black community with whites living amongst us. The only whites there that I saw getting beat on either put on a tude or ran with a gang who then stepped on someone elses "turf".

Tell you what, you don't try to put words in my mouth, and I won't point out how ignorant doing so is kay?


[/COLOR]

You ask a Black what they mean by "not Black enough" and most of the answers come down to "culture".
He's not been where a lot of blacks are and those blacks don't feel he would have their best interests at heart because of it. The poster labels this as "racism".

That you are defending it without even realising it is makes me think perhaps you are the one with racial prejudices. [/COLOR]
As a man running for president his job isn't to look out for blacks, or whites, or half-whites hafl-blacks. Its to do the best job for all of us. And unlike you I do mean both blacks and whites when I say us. And yes the idea that there is such a thing beyond skin color as "blackness" is not only racist it is ignorant.

And? It's still not racism to say that someone can't relate with where you come from,... otherwise I could call you racist.

Yes actually it is. I would assume anyone who has grown up as a minority living with a beliggerent majority can understand where i come from regardless of race. In fact While living overseas I knew a Rom, (gypsy) who grew up in England and experienced much the same things.

What are you missing here? Why should ANY minority accept or allow whites who share the same views or goals into their organizations formed because of the exclusion of minorities from the white equivs?
It's like you saying that the Black Panther Party,.. originally formed to protect the black community from groups like the KKK should let Whites patrol our neighborhoods with guns while the KKK outside of Canada has YET to recruit a blackman in any capacity. You show a definative change to society where these "black" groups are not needed and they will "go away" there would be no need to "intergrate" or allow Whites to join,.. because the WHITE organizations that caused their formation would have an open door policy.

Do you even realise you just made my point for me?
Think about it, you want to folloow the same policies as the KKK? Only from a black perspective, and its not racist? Since when is limiting membership to any organisation based only upon an apllicants race, not racist?
Furthermore to even suggest that any oragnisation should take its sues fro the policies of the KKK is inane. Much less a congresional caucas in antiona which belives the law should treat all ethnicties equally. Furthermore the mission statement of the CBC is

With a focus on Education, Public Health, Economic Development and African Globalism, CBCF is the premier organization that creates, identifies, analyzes and disseminates policy-oriented information critical to advancing African Americans and people of African descent towards equity in economics, health and education.

Now given the goals it would seem that any legislator that is intersted in these goals would be elligble regardless of that legislators race. Or are you saying that only black can be interested in helping black?
Racism is a problem not a solution.



Racism, even if reactionary is still racism.

Oooookay,.. so any response in self defense is "racist" Hooboy,.. that is twisted. You believe that even though your own may do dirt,.. that minorities are just as wrong for not letting you do as your people obstruct or prevent us to do. scary.

If that organisation uses racist means to do so yes. For example the Untied way is not racist, it aims to help all who are poor, many of whom are black. The way to defend against racism is not to be racist oneself. The correct response tot he KKK is to create a "black KKK" the correct response is to create org which stand agsint both.

No,.. these are your labels for reactions that have brought us to where we are today. The organizations you call "racist" made it possible for us to have this conversation. They formed their own colleges when whites were not letting us in,.. they formed groups in the empty place where whites were quite happy with the status quo to give blacks the same opertunities that whites take for granted. Based on the track record of your people as a group,.. they don't believe that having you in these groups would be any sort of improvement.You can challenge the concept,.. but you are in error for believing as you do because it comes from a position of not having gone through the stuff that the people you have isuue with have.
Thats all.

peace

Forming a all black college when colleges would not accept blacks is not racist, forming an all black college when colleges accept people of all races is. Yes there was a time and place where all black org were necessary. To maintain them as racially seperate institutions today is inane. Show me one "whites only" congressional caucaus, colelge, corporation etc. There is no such thing beyond organsations such as the KKK which are inheratnly racist and powerless.

Again if racism is the problem it can't also be the solution.

 

[Anubis]

Actually, whites are allowed in black colleges. It's that not that many actually apply.

But anyway, what were all the series from the Milestone line? I know about Static, Icon, and Hardware, but what were the others?

 

[Tropico]

Blood Syndicate and Xombi.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I'm still waiting for someone to give me the lowdown on what happened in the battle between Storm and Clor? Or did that issue not street yet?

 

[mwm1331]

by your very own statements you have invalidated this comment, as you live in a predominantly non-white area dunno haven't heard that much of late please give me some examples... and I need Black political figures (read active in politics a.k.a.holding some sort of office) not celebs that they throw on camera every time there is a black issue

I used to, at the moment i live in a very mixed area, lots of whites,blacks, asians, and hispanics.
As to political figures. Jesse Jackson, Al sharpton, Ray Nagin, Cynthia Mckinney just in the last 6 months or so and off the top of my head.

quite often actually and I ask you how many of the reporters holding the mike in those situations is black...hmmm

Honestly it depends on the station. I am not just talking about interviews though.

actually it indicates that many blacks believe he is not immersed in the culture enough to be concerned with what they would call our issues there by eliminating his attractiveness as a potentially sympathetic candidate

Heres my problem what are "black issues"
Dsicrimination effets blacks, latinos, whites, asians etc.
Poverty? Globalisation? Law enforcemnt? Etc?
What are "your: issues that don't also effect me or anyone else?

negative, cause the black caucus is still a minority and limited in it's ability to effect change

Im not talking about its impact, but the behavior itself. Granted the Black caucaus can't have as big of an impact, but that has nothing to do with the wether or not they are engaging in the same behaviors/.

reactionary violence something I despise and it does happen to blacks in more subtle cutting ways because in it of itself White culture is american culture that's like me asking if I can get support behind "black" hip hop

Im sorry but thats simply not true. American culture has been influenced by, and was created by, whites, blacks, latinos, native americans etc. Define "black culture" I mean seriously think about, most of the traits associated with black culture are exactly the same as traits associated with redneck culture. Hell As I pointer out earlier in the thread many of the jokes told By chris Rock and Jeff FOxworthy are interchangable.
Fill in the blank in this joke "you can't give a _________ money"
Is it Ni**er (rock) or redneck (foxworthy)
Its both.

most of these individuals are actually reaching for racial equality, defining themselves by the "blackness" that they feel they have been defined by (again not that I agree with it)

Then why support it? Why endorse it. WHy defend it?

it's not so much the statements you make more the context under which you perceive them

Huh?
Could you elaborate?

not familiar with the case please point out a related link

I am looking but I can't find links to the orginal articles just to the commentary. Ther were recently cases with the ADA in NO, With the Police chief in Philly, and the mayor in chicago though.

are you talking about the city that was recently flooded and left to sit in it's own ...juices for five days before any federal aid came to assist you know the black "looters" as opposed to the white "foragers", now why would they want their community to pull together?

A couple points.
One the whole "looters" V "foragers" thing was the result of the AP, and even that was overblown. Second After andrew it took the exact same 5 days for federal aid to arrive. I know I was here. Third, the fault lies iN Nagin, A black mayor, for sticking the poorest of NO's citizens in a damn football staduim. Fourth - Those citizens while predominantly black included whites Fifth - NO has been a majority black city, with a majority black government for years so I have a hard time beliving racism was invloved. At the end of the day, FEMA did what its always done, which is to take forever to get **** moving. However the fact that a Black mayor bussed that many people to a football stadium while he got his ass out of there is hardly evidence of racism.

not sure how that's relevant to the point I believe you are trying to make, but to be honest the not really black thing started on the other side of the color line and was actually developed as a tool to control slaves by causing them to police themselves and make controlling them that much easier it's a house ****** field ****** thing that has survived sown through the ages and is just as often if not more often touted by non blacks...

I am aware of the history, However its Not WHite polticans or voters who are saying it. Its not white comedians who talk white, its not white comedians putting on black face etc. I agree that the popular conception of what it means to be black is poisonous, i have pointed this out before, However its not whites who ae perpetuating it, or intimidating black kids from studying or calling them oreos