Matt insults a classic movie (Now insulting Superman: The Movie)

[Matt]

I actually think this is probably one of my favourite movies.

(fyi, also a favourite of Matt Groening and David Mirkin)

It emotionally resonates for me particularly strongly, and it captures the feeling of numb directionless youths so well that I can't help but love it.
I also love how so many of the scenes are in one, or just a few, shots and often with part of the screen obscured. It's something you could see Mike Nichols straining towards in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, a movie I also love, but here it's finally used to full advantage.

And hey, even if you don't like the movie, do you seriously not like that "April Come She Will" montage?
'cause holy ****. Few representations of depression and numbness have ever come close to the stinging reality of THAT.

I won't defend the second half of the movie too much, 'cause it's not as great, and it definitely drops off in quality once he starts stalking Elaine.

But that first half is beautiful.

(Please don't put me down for a "Bad movie" vote. In my opinion, it's a good movie that just happens to not be for you.)

The April montage was pretty much the high light of the movie in my opinion. THe only part I enjoyed. But since you asked to not be put down for a bad movie, I'm going to go ahead and assume you meant to vote "Worst movie," and edit the poll accordingly.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

I actually think this is probably one of my favourite movies.

(fyi, also a favourite of Matt Groening and David Mirkin)

It emotionally resonates for me particularly strongly, and it captures the feeling of numb directionless youths so well that I can't help but love it.
I also love how so many of the scenes are in one, or just a few, shots and often with part of the screen obscured. It's something you could see Mike Nichols straining towards in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, a movie I also love, but here it's finally used to full advantage.

And hey, even if you don't like the movie, do you seriously not like that "April Come She Will" montage?
'cause holy ****. Few representations of depression and numbness have ever come close to the stinging reality of THAT.

I won't defend the second half of the movie too much, 'cause it's not as great, and it definitely drops off in quality once he starts stalking Elaine.

But that first half is beautiful.

(Please don't put me down for a "Bad movie" vote. In my opinion, it's a good movie that just happens to not be for you.)

Now see, I loved Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? too. And I thought it was far superior to the Graduate, which is simply a good, but fairly dated film.

 

[Matt]

You should definitely read the stuff JLBats and I posted.

My main problem with what you and JLbats are arguing, is that it is essentially a claim that theme and style trump good story telling and an engaging plot and character (neither of which The Graduate had in my opinion). A good theme means nothing if your plot does not work with the theme and engross the audience in it, and a stylistic movie means nothing if the movie is crap.

 

[Dr Strange]

I would say the film is over-rated but when i watched it i enjoyed it, its all opinion in the end.

 

[GhostPoet]

In the older films...pre-60's, the acting tended to be much too over the top. Too over-dramatic to the point it comes off cheesy and fake. Sure, they put emotion into it...but it's typically so over-the-top the mood is ruined. (for me)

Acting style seemed to improve once the mid 60's hit and beyond that. That's where I found acting to improve...but directing style got a little lazy. There were a few gems...but for the most part directing became a bit bland. (i'm talking in terms of the camera and not the directing of the actual actors)

This is of course all my own personal opinion. So, I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

My main problem with what you and JLbats are arguing, is that it is essentially a claim that theme and style trump good story telling and an engaging plot and character (neither of which The Graduate had in my opinion). A good theme means nothing if your plot does not work with the theme and engross the audience in it, and a stylistic movie means nothing if the movie is crap.

No, we're arguing for the effectiveness of the storytelling.

I myself feel that the Graduate falters in certain places, especially the second half of the movie in regards to the way Ben's character was handled. But I still contend that it's a classic for a reason, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge or appreciate why so many others do. And there's something to be said for stylistically well made movies with throwaway plots and characters. Who says they can't be good? Tim Burton's Batman has a mediocre script, but superb art direction and good performances from the leads. Same for Batman Returns, where art direction, cinematography and acting are what make that film so excellent. Movies are a visual medium after all.

 

[Zephyr Alexian]

I won't defend the second half of the movie too much, 'cause it's not as great, and it definitely drops off in quality once he starts stalking Elaine.

That's one of my major problems with the film. His attachmental fiasco to try and shape or control a situation was self-defeating due to his prior stance.

You should definitely read the stuff JLBats and I posted.

I'm sorry, but a lot of the things that happen in this film seem like they only do so because the script called for it, and not because the characters would really act that way.

I respect your opinion and JL's, but Elaine's indecisiveness is annoying and immature at best. There's no suitable explanation for it.

And what's up with the bus ride at the ending? They jump on a bus and their future is undetermined? Give me a break. That's taking the easy way out.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

That's one of my major problems with the film. His attachmental fiasco to try and shape or control a situation was self-defeating due to his prior stance.



I'm sorry, but a lot of the things that happen in this film seem like they only do so because the script called for it, and not because the characters would really act that way.

I respect your opinion and JL's, but Elaine's indecisiveness is annoying and immature at best. There's no suitable explanation for it.

And what's up with the bus ride at the ending? They jump on a bus and their future is undetermined? Give me a break. That's taking the easy way out.

I don't see it that way at all. I feel completely differently in that the characters don't feel like slaves to the script at all, rather they seem fairly vibrant and distinct. Especially Mrs. Robinson.

 

[Addendum]

I always thought the easy way out was wrapping up everything neatly and people live happily ever after

 

[Matt]

I feel the same way. I hate the whole "life doesn't have an ending..." Well if I wanted to watch life, I'd go to the park and people watch for free. I paid 8 bucks to see a movie and I damn well want my ending. The entire "Real life doesn't have an ending," argument is such a cop-out. I feel the same way about The Sopranos. I paid for HBO for how long to see how it ends? I endured the f'n Johnny Cakes story line and I wanted to see a real ending! I wanted to see a bloody masacre where Tony gets whacked damnit

If I wanted a movie to leave the ending up to me, I wouldn't go to the damn movie.I would sit at home, save my money, and imagine a movie. I paid for a movie, not a cop out.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Come on. Just because a story doesn't execute the idea well doesn't invalidate the tone of a slice of life piece. American Graffiti pulls it off nicely.

 

[Zephyr Alexian]

Okay, Franklin. I could agree with that estimation.

I don't see it that way at all. I feel completely differently in that the characters don't feel like slaves to the script at all, rather they seem fairly vibrant and distinct. Especially Mrs. Robinson.

To me, one of the film's themes is 'rite of passage', yet it doesn't provide closure, so that's why I didn't enjoy the ending as much. Of course, there really isn't any closure at their age in the film, but it ends with no specific decision. It leads you to a dead end so to speak.

What is so appealing about Mrs. Robinson to you? The seductive nature? Her need to feel youth through the bond with a younger male? The familial events surrounding it? What? I want your feedback.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Movies 205, Kevin Roegele, I'm coming for you guys :heart.

Bring it on, baby-!!

And congratulations on the birth of your daughter.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Insult The Graduate all you like...

....but I won't tolerate a word against Straw Dogs. No sir.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Ive never seen it, Dustin Hoffman as MILF-hunter has just never appealed to me.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

Okay, Franklin. I could agree with that estimation.



To me, one of the film's themes is 'rite of passage', yet it doesn't provide closure, so that's why I didn't enjoy the ending as much. Of course, there really isn't any closure at their age in the film, but it ends with no specific decision. It leads you to a dead end so to speak.

What is so appealing about Mrs. Robinson to you? The seductive nature? Her need to feel youth through the bond with a younger male? The familial events surrounding it? What? I want your feedback.

Anne Bancroft brings the character to life, her seductiveness is a large part of what makes her so great. But also, her need for a younger male was also fleshed out rather compellingly in my opinion. She had a liveliness to her that was absent from some of the supporting characters.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Insult The Graduate all you like...

....but I won't tolerate a word against Straw Dogs. No sir.

Word. This movie kicks ass. Saw it once, thought it was ok, thought it might have had something to do with the fact that i saw it on a old, crappy VHS tape. Watched it again on DVD and was blown away by how good it was.

I've never seen The Graduate, but i've heard good things. I want to see it. But i kind of agree with where Matt is coming from. I'm not a fan of Citizen Kane. At all. The kicker is that i'm a film student. I applaud it's innovations with HOW to make a movie and all that, because i LOVE the way it's filmed. But i can't get into the story at all. I like the beginning with Kane as a child, and i love the end, with how Welles goes about revealing "Rosebud", but the story doesn't do anything for me, and some of the acting i can't stand. So i don't really understand why it's considered the greatest movie ever made. You have to have innovative camera work and innovative story structure to get that title? What about the story itself? If your story sucks, who cares? Casablanca in that aspect is waaay better than Citizen Kane. And i'd place Casablanca over Kane any day, but "Greatest Movie Ever Made" is ridiculously subjective. But for the record, i WILL say that Kane's first wife was a total babe!t:

On the flipside, "Velvet Goldmine" by Todd Haynes, is basically similar in concept and structure and it's one of my favorite movies. The story is about a rock star who fakes his assassination of stage and disappears from the public eye shortly thereafter. And years later, Christian Bale has to write a news piece about the rock star on his 20th anniversary of his faked assassination, by interviewing people who knew him. Roughly the same idea, but i can watch Velvet Goldmine any day i want. I can't say the same for Citizen Kane.

 

[JLBats]

The April montage was pretty much the high light of the movie in my opinion. THe only part I enjoyed. But since you asked to not be put down for a bad movie, I'm going to go ahead and assume you meant to vote "Worst movie," and edit the poll accordingly.

This is serious misuse of mod powers, and pretty lame of you:

 

[JLBats]

Now see, I loved Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? too. And I thought it was far superior to the Graduate, which is simply a good, but fairly dated film.

Oh, don't worry, I prefer Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, I'm just pointing out that that particular style of shot is used more in The Graduate.

 

[JLBats]

My main problem with what you and JLbats are arguing, is that it is essentially a claim that theme and style trump good story telling and an engaging plot and character (neither of which The Graduate had in my opinion). A good theme means nothing if your plot does not work with the theme and engross the audience in it, and a stylistic movie means nothing if the movie is crap.

When I posted that, I wasn't trying to say "Look at the lighting! Look at the mise-en-scene! Story? Who cares?"

In my mind, FORM and SUBSTANCE are interwoven. I wasn't arguing form over substance. I truly believe film is a medium where the two work together, and for me the brilliance of a lot of the formal elements in The Graduate are consistently used to enrich and further the story.

And it makes me laugh.

 

[WompuM]

Excited about the future Matt viewings.

 

[Matt]

This is serious misuse of mod powers, and pretty lame of you:

Yes, it was a misuse of power, only I think you mean awesome instead of lame. Yep...even more awesome than the Fett-man.

When I posted that, I wasn't trying to say "Look at the lighting! Look at the mise-en-scene! Story? Who cares?"

In my mind, FORM and SUBSTANCE are interwoven. I wasn't arguing form over substance. I truly believe film is a medium where the two work together, and for me the brilliance of a lot of the formal elements in The Graduate are consistently used to enrich and further the story.

And it makes me laugh.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion. All I'm saying is it is absolutely wrong and mine is right.

Excited about the future Matt viewings.

Oh, there will be plenty. I'm thinking about tearing Citizen Kane a new one next

 

[Matt]

Bring it on, baby-!!

And congratulations on the birth of your daughter.

Thanks Kev

 

[JLBats]

Yes, it was a misuse of power, only I think you mean awesome instead of lame. Yep...even more awesome than the Fett-man.



Look, you're entitled to your opinion. All I'm saying is it is absolutely wrong and mine is right.

...

What HAPPENED to you?

 

[Matt]

The Graduate is what happened. It took away 2 hours of my life that I'll never get back and now I'm bitter