MCU Fantastic Four Box Office Predictions

[DarthSkywalker]

I agree, but I think Marvel had filmed a lot of “junk” before Iger dropped the hammer and told them to knock it off and cut back on the quantity. For a while there, they were just pumping out so much and it was overwhelming the base. So, I feel they had to just go ahead and release Agatha, Echo, Ms.?Marvel, Cap 4, Thunderbolts, She-Hulk and other projects because the production money was spent already. The problem is, no one asked for Echo. Or Ironheart. Or even Thunderbolts.

It’s like a candidate running for political office. Marvel has been going to the far left/far right of its audience, giving us content we don’t really want just to fill up their production calendar. What they need to do is run to the center: Give the base the core Marvel characters they care about: Avengers, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Hulk, Spider-Man, etc. They exhausted the goodwill of the audience by inundating them with the other noise, and now folks have tuned out when the FF have finally arrived. This is a strategy failure on their part—just really poor planning.

Disney+ is separate from this (She-Hulk was peak though). There is a very long gap from now until their next movie. They could've released one at the end of last year, this year, or even at the beginning of next. The compact schedule was unnecessary.

I think overall the issue has been "too many characters" without follow ups for any of them. Both on film and streaming. I'm still waiting for my Kate Bishop follow up!

 

[ReadyOReady]

Damn. I would not want to be Kevin Feige tonight. I’m calling it now: I think change is coming to Marvel. Iger is not going to continue tolerating this downward trajectory. And sadly, It’s not even about the fans and what we want. It’s about shareholders lining their pockets and those pockets became very swollen from Marvel’s previous reign at the box office. It’s clear to me that Feige has lost to plot with the MCU—and not just because of what’s been happening with this year’s Marvel films. It’s the entirety of the brand’s performance across the board—TV and film. Where is it all leading? No one really can answer that. Why? Because the cohesion is gone.

And one of the ways to manage PR damage is to “make a change.”

I personally disagree.

 

[Sithborg]

Damn. I would not want to be Kevin Feige tonight. I’m calling it now: I think change is coming to Marvel. Iger is not going to continue tolerating this downward trajectory. And sadly, It’s not even about the fans and what we want. It’s about shareholders lining their pockets and those pockets became very swollen from Marvel’s previous reign at the box office. It’s clear to me that Feige has lost to plot with the MCU—and not just because of what’s been happening with this year’s Marvel films. It’s the entirety of the brand’s performance across the board—TV and film. Where is it all leading? No one really can answer that. Why? Because the cohesion is gone.

And one of the ways to manage PR damage is to “make a change.”

Iger is not going to be the one to drop Feige. If anything, that is a move that the new CEO will do, as a lot of these *******s love "making big changes" when they come in. And even then, his job is dependent on Doomsday/Secret Wars. They are not ditching their prime scapegoat if those films underperform beforehand.

 

[Nightshift]

Called the drop off. Feige had close to a decade to fix this mess.

 

[Nightshift]

Iger is not going to be the one to drop Feige. If anything, that is a move that the new CEO will do, as a lot of these *******s love "making big changes" when they come in. And even then, his job is dependent on Doomsday/Secret Wars. They are not ditching their prime scapegoat if those films underperform beforehand.

What new CEO? Iger will do anything to remain in power. At this rate DD and SW isn't looking good. I think Spider-Man BND is the only film with the chance of crossing the 1B $ mark. Besides having the OG X-Men partially back and RDJ trying to take on Doom nothing is really looking good. There's barely any set up for a new Avengers movie.

 

[Spider-Fan]

What new CEO? Iger will do anything to remain in power. At this rate DD and SW isn't looking good. I think Spider-Man BND is the only film with the chance of crossing the 1B $ mark. Besides having the OG X-Men partially back and RDJ trying to take on Doom nothing is really looking good. There's barely any set up for a new Avengers movie.

I think Iger only has like a year left and he was talking about retiring again. So unless he changes his mind, we should have a new CEO

 

[Nightshift]

Disney+ is separate from this (She-Hulk was peak though). There is a very long gap from now until their next movie. They could've released one at the end of last year, this year, or even at the beginning of next. The compact schedule was unnecessary.

I think overall the issue has been "too many characters" without follow ups for any of them. Both on film and streaming. I'm still waiting for my Kate Bishop follow up!

The issue is not utilizing your top selling characters, but using their derivatives whose comics never really made their numbers. I still can't get over the fact how they messed up She-Hulk. Such a fantastic character. Breaks my heart.

Endgame should have been followed by a limited Series bout Cap returning the Stones. You needed a Mandalorian effect for Marvel Studios on D+. Feige failed that assignment, by making Loki being kicked in the b***s multiple times by Sif.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The issue is not utilizing your top selling characters, but using their derivatives whose comics never really made their numbers. I still can't get over the fact how they messed up She-Hulk. Such a fantastic character. Breaks my heart.

Endgame should have been followed by a limited Series of returning the Stones. You needed a Mandalorian effect for Marvel Studios on D+. Feige failed that assignment, by making Loki being kicked in the b***s multiple times by Sif.

How did they mess up She-Hulk?

Disney+ issue was trying to be too tied to the movies. It should've been it's own thing. Like Netflix was. Then you cross over for events. Turning it into movie material not only led to a lot of bad extended fake shows, it also gave audiences too much homework.

 

[Nightshift]

I think Iger only has like a year left and he was talking about retiring again. So unless he changes his mind, we should have a new CEO

Fair enough, but let's be reasonable. We saw how it went with Chapek. Iger, even if he's stepping down from CEO will still want a seat at the board or even chairman. Noway is this guy letting go. Feige also needs to retire. Maybe bring back Jeremy Latcham or setup brain trust Team at Marvel Studios like during IM1.

 

[Spider-Fan]

How did they mess up She-Hulk?

Disney+ issue was trying to be too tied to the movies. It should've been it's own thing. Like Netflix was. Then you cross over for events. Turning it into movie material not only led to a lot of bad extended fake shows, it also gave audiences too much homework.

Also should have been more focused on cheaper characters. Like Netflix was. Don't spend 250 mil on a Falcon show. Spend like....a third of that on cheaper and still popular characters that can hold a series still. Like a lot of your street level characters. Or if you have a supporting character, use cheaper concepts. She-Hulk as a lawyer show was a good idea to do. Or I had the idea of at some point if you had Alicia Masters and Ben Grimm dating in a future movie, maybe do a Meet The Parents style show about Ben meeting the Puppet Master. A bit pricier cause of the CG, but less action set pieces and more focused on comedy. Stuff like that

 

[Nightshift]

How did they mess up She-Hulk?

Disney+ issue was trying to be too tied to the movies. It should've been it's own thing. Like Netflix was. Then you cross over for events. Turning it into movie material not only led to a lot of bad extended fake shows, it also gave audiences too much homework.

The changed the origin, Bruce getting lectured by Jen on her first world problems even though Bruce has lost more than she did. The writers of show the never read She-Hulk comics. Terrible CGI, horrible stunts (court room scene). The online trolls reflecting the narcissism of the writers room and also the timing when it came out.

I agree, the Netflix approach with Marvel was way more superior with more room for interpretation. Netflix Daredevil might just be the best Comicbook Show ever made - At least S1. i would also argue that the shows they picked to be created for D+ were bad choices in general. With the post Endgame momentum and all the money in the world you could have done so much more.

 

[Nightshift]

Also should have been more focused on cheaper characters. Like Netflix was. Don't spend 250 mil on a Falcon show. Spend like....a third of that on cheaper and still popular characters that can hold a series still. Like a lot of your street level characters. Or if you have a supporting character, use cheaper concepts. She-Hulk as a lawyer show was a good idea to do. Or I had the idea of at some point if you had Alicia Masters and Ben Grimm dating in a future movie, maybe do a Meet The Parents style show about Ben meeting the Puppet Master. A bit pricier cause of the CG, but less action set pieces and more focused on comedy. Stuff like that

Maybe do a political thriller, with Hawkeye, Black Widow and Winter Solder in Budapest. Should have made Bucky the next Captain America. WandaVision started good, but ended idiotic. Loki should have been made more serious, but the whole TVA, Kang nonsense, making the infinity stones and free will meaningless was stupid. I like the Ben Grimm idea. That's what happens when you hire Rick and Morty writers - Feige idea. Go figure.


Thought we would see like a dating show moment in the film which the teaser at SDCC hinted at, but guess not. I wanted to see more Thing - best character of FFFS.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The changed the origin, Bruce getting lectured by Jen on her first world problems even though Bruce has lost more than she did. The writers of show the never read She-Hulk comics. Terrible CGI, horrible stunts (court room scene). The online trolls reflecting the narcissism of the writers room and also the timing when it came out.

How did the change in origin "ruin" She-Hulk?

How dare a woman be frustrated!

Show was good, so I guess they never needed to read a She-Hulk comic.

CGI was fine. That's a budget issue and it worked well enough. Honestly better then a lot of their movies.

Stunts worked perfectly well imo.

"The narcissism of the writers room". Nah, just making fun of a bunch of bigots online.

I agree, the Netflix approach with Marvel was way more superior with more room for interpretation. Netflix Daredevil might just be the best Comicbook Show ever made - At least S1. i would also argue that the shows they picked to be created for D+ were bad choices in general. With the post Endgame momentum and all the money in the world you could have done so much more.

Endgame should've had nothing to do with their D+ content. They should've made a few TV shows. Had them yearly.

 

[Nightshift]

How did the change in origin "ruin" She-Hulk?

How dare a woman be frustrated!

Show was good, so I guess they never needed to read a She-Hulk comic.

CGI was fine. That's a budget issue and it worked well enough. Honestly better then a lot of their movies.

Stunts worked perfectly well imo.

"The narcissism of the writers room". Nah, just making fun of a bunch of bigots online.

Endgame should've had nothing to do with their D+ content. They should've made a few TV shows. Had them yearly.

Lord Skywalker, I by no means, mean to upset you.

It's not about a woman not being frustrated. She literally whined about being cat called, to a guy, who's Ex sacrificed herself for an infinity stone, I guy who tried to commit suic**e, but his inner monster stopped him. Her comic backstory made way more sense as well, then the lazy writing of the show.

Look, it's just an opinion. Imo they messed up a truly fabulous character from the comics. If anything the audience score, Disney cancelling a second season and the main star going after the CEO of Disney should speak volumes.

She Hulk CGI was horrid lol. Maybe we both watched a different show.
I mean one stunt in the court room fight scene She Hulk throws back the table and didn't even hit Titania, she just fell back and the table fell on top of her. lol

I mean Jen Walters was part of the F4 at some point, you could have done so much with the character instead of the Rick and Morty writer who hasn't read the comics making Jen this women that sleeps with anybody and complains. It wasn't relatable except to some that focused on their perhaps personal experience with online trolls. Be my guest. lol. You could have easily adapted a John Byrne run. I mean the blueprint was there.

So you don't like my political thriller in Budapest proposal post Endgame? i'm crushed! Yearly would have worked or even twice a year, sort of like Andor quality.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Lord Skywalker, I by no means, mean to upset you.

It's not about a woman not being frustrated. She literally whined about being cat called, to a guy, who's Ex sacrificed herself for an infinity stone, I guy who tried to commit suic**e, but his inner monster stopped him. Her comic backstory made way more sense as well, then the lazy writing of the show.

Look, it's just an opinion. Imo they messed up a truly fabulous character from the comics. If anything the audience score, Disney cancelling a second season and the main star going after the CEO of Disney should speak volumes.

She Hulk CGI was horrid lol. Maybe we both watched a different show.
I mean one stunt in the court room fight scene She Hulk throws back the table and didn't even hit Titania, she just fell back and the table fell on top of her. lol

I mean Jen Walters was part of the F4 at some point, you could have done so much with the character instead Rick and Morty writer who hasn't read the comics makes Jen this women that sleeps with anybody and complains. It wasn't relatable except to some that focused on their perhaps personal experience with online trolls. Be my guest. lol. You could have easily adapted a John Byrne run. I mean the blueprint was there.

So you don't like my political thriller in Budapest proposal post Endgame? i'm crushed! Yearly would have worked or even twice a year, sort of like Andor quality.

Yeah, it's about a woman being frustrated. And if you don't want people to think that, I wouldn't list sexual harassment as a, "first world problem".

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Disney+ is separate from this (She-Hulk was peak though). There is a very long gap from now until their next movie. They could've released one at the end of last year, this year, or even at the beginning of next. The compact schedule was unnecessary.

I think overall the issue has been "too many characters" without follow ups for any of them. Both on film and streaming. I'm still waiting for my Kate Bishop follow up!

I don’t see Disney+ as a separate issue from this whatsoever. I think for general audiences it’s very much tied together. In addition to the quality output, there are two other reasons:

1.) Too Much Homework: People often believe that they have to watch all of those shows to be interconnected with what’s happening in the films. If audiences feel they are “behind” on the details, they won’t tune in for a film. This is a REAL perception issue and that’s why Feige & Co. made such a big deal about “no homework required” to watch First Steps. Perception can either be a powerful encouraging or dissuading factor for consumers.

2.) I’ll Just Stream It Later: Disney is effectively cannibalizing the success of their own films with its streaming platform. I’m willing to bet thousands of people—if not more—reasoned they would skip First Steps in theaters because they knew it will be out on Disney+ in 2 or 3 months. It’s become a cost-saving safety net function for them, and who can blame them in this economy?

So when it comes to pacing and scheduling these films, I don’t know how you can separate the Disney+ factor out. It is all interconnected and literally influencing people’s perception of Marvel Studios as a brand. We can’t split hairs and believe that it’s not having a bearing on this situation.

 

[Nightshift]

Yeah, it's about a woman being frustrated. And if you don't want people to think that, I wouldn't list sexual harassment as a, "first world problem".

I'm not saying it's not a problem in general. It didn't really work for the TV Show though. The show failed and that's that. It all could have been avoided if you just focused on the comics by John Byrne.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don’t see Disney+ as a separate issue from this whatsoever. I think for general audiences it’s very much tied together. In addition to the quality output, there are two other reasons:

1.) Too Much Homework: People often believe that they have to watch all of those shows to be interconnected with what’s happening in the films. If audiences feel they are “behind” on the details, they won’t tune in for a film. This is a real issue and that’s why Feige & Co. made such a big deal about “no homework required” to watch First Steps. Perception can either be a powerful encouraging or dissuading factor for consumers.

2.) I’ll Just Stream It Later: Disney is effectively cannibalizing the success of their own films with its streaming platform. I’m willing to bet hundreds of thousands—if not more—people reasoned they would skip First Steps in theaters because they knew it will be out on Disney+ in 2 or 3 months. It’s become a cost-saving safety net function for them, and who can blame them in this economy?

So when it comes to pacing and scheduling these films, I don’t know how you can separate the Disney+ factor out. It is all interconnected and literally influencing people’s perception of Marvel Studios as a brand. We can’t split hairs and believe that it’s not having a bearing on this situation.

The specific issue I was talking about is how they stuffed a bunch of theatrical releases into a small window. Audiences gave up on Disney+ a long time ago and so has Disney with how they dumped everything other then Daredevil. It's not a issue with how these films were release.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm not saying it's not a problem in general. It didn't really work for the TV Show though. The show failed and that's that. It all could have been avoided if you just focused on the comics by John Byrne.

Your argument is she shouldn't be whining about sexual harassment with her cousin, who is there to listen to her. And I have a hard time believing you take in seriously "in general" because you decided to label it a, "first world problem" downplaying it's significance.

 

[Nightshift]

Your argument is she shouldn't be whining about sexual harassment with her cousin, who is there to listen to her. And I have a hard time believing you take in seriously "in general" because you decided to label it a, "first world problem" downplaying it's significance.

I see. I never used that word you did and it's not that one argument I made, but the one you chose.. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it of course. I still believe her whining to Bruce didn't help the over all show, but whatever. We'll just have wait for season 2 I guess.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

The specific issue I was talking about is how they stuffed a bunch of theatrical releases into a small window. Audiences gave up on Disney+ a long time ago and so has Disney with how they dumped everything other then Daredevil. It's not a issue with how these films were release.

If memory serves, Marvel had a November 2025 theater date reserved on the schedule and then they abandoned it and pushed Brave New World, Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four together into six-month release window. Why?? Some people believe that Feige & Co. moved First Steps closer to Superman to handicap the latter's success. Who knows if that's true or not (we know that studios can be petty asf--Example: Fant4stic), but it's not vindictive, then it definitely reads negligent. First Steps would've done so much better in the Fall because it doesn't really come across as a summer popcorn film. It's truly a sci-fi exploration movie with a hint of action. And that's 100% fine--and the way the FF are supposed to be--but not in close proximity with dinosaurs and the Son of Krypton.

I just can't shake this perception that the heads at Marvel actually don't have a plan or know what the hell they're doing. It all feels kinda aimless. All of these after credit scenes with no payoff. Characters like Moon Knight, Shang-Chi and others set up nicely, only to be disappeared with no connective tissue to whatever the "greater storyline" is supposed to be. Where is all of this headed? First Steps did very little to advance Doomsday and it'll be here a year from now. I don't get it.

 

[Nightshift]

If memory serves, Marvel had a November 2025 theater date reserved on the schedule and then they abandoned it and pushed Brave New World, Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four together into six-month release window. Why?? Some people believe that Feige & Co. moved First Steps closer to Superman to handicap the latter's success. Who knows if that's true or not (we know that studios can be petty asf--Example: Fant4stic), but it's not vindictive, then it definitely reads negligent. First Steps would've done so much better in the Fall because it doesn't really come across as a summer popcorn film. It's truly a sci-fi exploration movie with a hint of action. And that's 100% fine--and the way the FF are supposed to be--but not in close proximity with dinosaurs and the Son of Krypton.

I just can't shake this perception that the heads at Marvel actually don't have a plan or know what the hell they're doing. It all feels kinda aimless. All of these after credit scenes with no payoff. Characters like Moon Knight, Shang-Chi and others set up nicely, only to be disappeared with no connective tissue to whatever the "greater storyline" is supposed to be. Where is all of this headed? First Steps did very little to advance Doomsday and it'll be here a year from now. I don't get it.

Don't you also feel like they are a little late? Disney purchase of Fox completed in 2019. By 2018 they could have set up bread crumps for Doom and they introduce F4. I remember theories of F4 buying the old Avengers tower. Although I am happy they F4 are set in a different and contained universe. The pivoting from Kang really hurt the overall structure of the next phase. As you mentioned it does seem aimless.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I see. I never used that word you did and it's not that one argument I made, but the one you chose.. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it of course. I still believe her whining to Bruce didn't help the over all show, but whatever. We'll just have wait for season 2 I guess.

What word?

What was she "whining" about?

 

[Nightshift]

What word?

What was she "whining" about?

I think Season 2 would be great if they adapt a John Byrne run.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If memory serves, Marvel had a November 2025 theater date reserved on the schedule and then they abandoned it and pushed Brave New World, Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four together into six-month release window. Why?? Some people believe that Feige & Co. moved First Steps closer to Superman to handicap the latter's success. Who knows if that's true or not (we know that studios can be petty asf--Example: Fant4stic), but it's not vindictive, then it definitely reads negligent. First Steps would've done so much better in the Fall because it doesn't really come across as a summer popcorn film. It's truly a sci-fi exploration movie with a hint of action. And that's 100% fine--and the way the FF are supposed to be--but not in close proximity with dinosaurs and the Son of Krypton.

I just can't shake this perception that the heads at Marvel actually don't have a plan or know what the hell they're doing. It all feels kinda aimless. All of these after credit scenes with no payoff. Characters like Moon Knight, Shang-Chi and others set up nicely, only to be disappeared with no connective tissue to whatever the "greater storyline" is supposed to be. Where is all of this headed? First Steps did very little to advance Doomsday and it'll be here a year from now. I don't get it.

I agree they wanted to effect Superman. That seems to have backfired.

I also agree they don't have a plan. Or at least didn't have a real one until recently. There should of bee an Avengers flick with Carol, Sam, Shang-Chi, Bruce, Rhodes, Strange, and others in 2023. They should of had sequels of Phase 4 movies in Phase 5. They've really made it up as they went along and flooded the zone with too many characters and content.

Now I think their plan is to "reset" after the Avengers flicks. Which feels very far away.