MCU Fight: Captain Marvel Vs. Hela

[Mjolnir Reborn]

The weapons in Asgard are not power-ups, imo. They are tools capable of channeling these magical beings’ powers. So being the “greatest weapon in Asgard” doesn’t mean much to me other than “oh it’s even more indestructible than Mjølnir was supposed to be, and hey look it can smash and chop!” The Bifrost power is a nice bonus, but won’t be much help in this fight.

That doesn't seem like a good explanation to me. Mjolnir was basically indestructible so being slightly more indestructible (which we don't know if it is) than that doesn't really make a weapon greater, especially not in a way that would make a legendary smith like Eitri boast about it. Something that makes a weapon great is something that actually comes into play when you use it. Not to mention that the weapons have their own might in both the comics and the myths.

Also, since when was Wolverine-like healing part of Thor's powers? He has to have it if the weapon only channels his powers.

 

[flickchick85]

That doesn't seem like a good explanation to me. Mjolnir was basically indestructible so being slightly more indestructible (which we don't know if it is) than that doesn't really make a weapon greater, especially not in a way that would make a legendary smith like Eitri boast about it. Something that makes a weapon great is something that actually comes into play when you use it. Not to mention that the weapons have their own might in both the comics and the myths.

Also, since when was Wolverine-like healing part of Thor's powers? He has to have it if the weapon only channels his powers.

Mjølnir healed him in the first Thor too. It’s just a thing that seems to happen when they get their weapons, lol. I assumed it a part of “channelling the god-like power” or something.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Mjølnir healed him in the first Thor too. It’s just a thing that seems to happen when they get their weapons, lol. I assumed it a part of “channelling the god-like power” or something.

It wasn't Mjolnir itself that healed him though, it was him getting his innate godly powers restored, which Odin had temporarily taken from him and locked away in Mjolnir. He wasn't dying as Thor the Asgardian, it was the mortal he had been transformed into that was dying. We never saw his wounds heal from holding Mjolnir when he was at his normal power.

Stormbreaker healed the god of thunder at pretty much the peak of his power (up until that point). Although as I said, I don't necessarily expect Thor to constantly be that invulnerable so we might get some inconsistency in the future, but for now we only have what we've seen.

 

[Fosterson]

Again, speed. There’s no way he’d be fast enough to do that, especially not with a weapon even clunkier than Mjølnir.

What makes you think that Stormbreaker is "clunky"? And for that matter, why do you think that Mjolnir was clunky?

You can hardly call a weapon that can do this clunky:

It is "terribly well balanced", after all.

She was SUPER fast compared to him.

Not really. She may have had a small speed advantage,but far more important were her strength and durability advantages, both of which Stormbreaker nullifies. Thor didn't really have too much trouble tagging Hela (even in the throne room fight). The problem was that he lacked the proper tools to put her down. Now he does.

Y’all just seem to want to declare Stormbreaker some sort of catch-all weapon, and I see no evidence of that being the case. To me it appeared to be just another Mjølnir, but stronger (as in, able to survive more), with Bifrost power, and as an axe.

I highly doubt that Thor would have risked his life just to obtain a weapon no better (or even marginally better) than what he had before. Eitri literally states that Stormbreaker is the most powerful Asgardian weapon and that it was made to be wielded by the king. And Thor explicitly states that it would have been suicide to face Thanos without it.

As Odin explained in Ragnarok, Mjolnir was just a medium through which Thor could learn to focus his powers. Stormbreaker, on the other hand, clearly amps them beyond what Thor would be capable of producing on his own.

It doesn’t suddenly make him unbeatable, just the same guy as before with a better, more utilitarian weapon. He can smash AND chop now AND teleport now!

Nobody said it makes him unbeatable. However it clearly elevated him to a level beyond what we've seen from Thor previously.

 

[flickchick85]

It wasn't Mjolnir itself that healed him though, it was him getting his innate godly powers restored, which Odin had temporarily taken from him and locked away in Mjolnir. He wasn't dying as Thor the Asgardian, it was the mortal he had been transformed into that was dying. We never saw his wounds heal from holding Mjolnir when he was at his normal power.

Stormbreaker healed the god of thunder at pretty much the peak of his power (up until that point). Although as I said, I don't necessarily expect Thor to constantly be that invulnerable so we might get some inconsistency in the future, but for now we only have what we've seen.

Well I won’t consider it an inconsistency, because to me it just seems like a thing that happens when he’s separated from his weapons and gains them back (for the first time), like it gives him a power surge, or a “jump” if he were a car.

Stormbreaker doesn’t “nullify” any previous weakness to me.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Well I won’t consider it an inconsistency, because to me it just seems like a thing that happens when he’s separated from his weapons and gains them back, like it gives him a power surge, or a “jump” if he were a car.

Stormbreaker doesn’t “nullify” any previous weakness to me.

But he wasn't dying in Thor because he didn't have Mjolnir, he was dying because Odin had taken his godly powers away. Normal Thor wouldn't have been seriously hurt by that strike from the Destroyer. It wasn't Mjolnir he needed, other than that Mjolnir was at that point temporarily the vessel of what he needed. He needed his own essence returned, which Odin's enchantment did as soon as its conditions were met. Had Odin stored it in something else then he'd have been saved by that item.

Stormbreaker didn't return anything to Thor as he already had all his power. Ergo it must have added something new. Something that might make a legendary weaponsmith to call it the greatest weapon in Asgard.

 

[flickchick85]

He was still dying, and still got healed by a jolt of his divine godly powers via his new weapon.

Look, y’all wanna make Stormbreaker into this OP thing after seeing it for all of 5 minutes, that’s fine. I just think it’s funny that when I speculate what Carol can do after seeing her powers for the same length of time, it’s all “you don’t know she could do that! We haven’t seen it!” Even though my speculation is based on what we HAVE seen (and the people behind the movies back me up). But when it comes to Thor’s new weapon against the TRULY OP Hela, that kind of speculation’s suddenly totally cool.

Anyway, I’ve said my piece, and am going to peace-out of this discussion which ain’t even on-topic, as I have no desire to keep putting down my fave MCU Avenger in these silly discussions. Have fun, Thor fans.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

He was still dying, and still got healed by a jolt of his divine godly powers via his new weapon.

Look, y’all wanna make Stormbreaker into this OP thing after seeing it for all of 5 minutes, that’s fine. I just think it’s funny that when I speculate what Carol can do after seeing her powers for the same length of time, it’s all “you don’t know she could do that! We haven’t seen it!” Even though my speculation is based on what we HAVE seen (and the people behind the movies back me up). But when it comes to Thor’s new weapon against the TRULY OP Hela, that kind of speculation’s suddenly totally cool.

Whoa there, don't go attributing opinions to me that I haven't stated. I mean exactly what I write and I've not written anything about comparing Thor vs Carol or Hela. My argument has solely been that Stormbreaker has given Thor something that he didn't have before, which is the entire point of his arc in Infinity War. Both Thor and Thanos are seeking out new power on similar paths and eventually face off in the end, only to have Thor's traditional hero's arc subverted and everyone loses.

 

[flickchick85]

I wasn’t referring to you with that comment, sorry I know it appeared that way.

And I’ll just add that Thor’s arc you just described works whether Stormbreaker is OP or not, because it simply gives Thor the tool he needs to use to kill Thanos. And the metaphor of what it represents for him doesn’t change regardless of its power.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I wasn’t referring to you with that comment, sorry I know it appeared that way.

And I’ll just add that Thor’s arc you just described works whether Stormbreaker is OP or not, because it simply gives Thor the tool he needs to use to kill Thanos. And the metaphor of what it represents for him doesn’t change regardless of its power.

Alright, no problem.

Getting Stormbreaker to specifically kill Thanos does in itself say that it's incredibly powerful as if other weapons around were likely to do it there's no need to risk your life to make the axe. That Thor does other things with it that he's never been seen do before is just icing on that cake, and the cherry on top is that it actually managed to overpower that specific use of the gauntlet at the end (which of course still doesn't make it even remotely close to as powerful as the gauntlet in general).

 

[Stormborn]

For every other version of Thor I 100% agree Hela takes him (although by the end of Ragnarok he at least put up a respectable fight):

Spoiler

Thor with Mjolnir vs Hela: Hela easily catches and crushes Mjolnir, they trade a few blows inside the bifrost where Hela clearly has the advantage and then Thor falls to Sakaar.

Thor with Gungnir vs Hela: Thor opens the fight by impaling Hela but that's not enough to put her down. Thor shows enough skill to keep trading blows with Hela for maybe a minute at most but she clearly has the advantage at all times, disarms Thor, takes his eye and then decides to gloat rather than finishing him off.

Ragnarok Thor vs Hela: Thor summons the "biggest lightning blast in the history of lightning" and it's enough to ragdoll/stun Hela and she falls limp onto the stone hundreds of feet below.

She later comes back completely unharmed, we see Thor's lightning cloak can block/disintegrate Hela's blades if he sees the attack coming, we see Thor's lightning charged blades put Hela onto the backfoot and leave her diving backwards to avoid his hits and we see that Thor's durable enough to recover from being hit by her blades multiple times and keep fighting. It's a much closer fight but ultimately she still has Thor outskilled and none of Thor's attacks are powerful enough to put her down.

Stormbreaker Thor is on another level though. He's still got the strength/skill/durability to contend with Hela in close quarters and survive hits from her, possibly more than when they last fought (his best strength/durability feats are in Infinity War). He's got the lightning that can stun her and block her attacks. And now he has Stormbreaker which gives him full on flight, seems to amp his healing and gives him an attack that's powerful enough to put Hela down if he can land a clean hit. It'll be a hell of a fight but if he plays to his strengths I think he can take her.

Back on topic: I'd put Carol closer to Ragnarok Thor's level than Hela's level. If she plays to her strengths (flight/speed/photon beams) she'll be able to give Hela a respectable fight but she just doesn't have the firepower to take Hela out whereas Hela's got a huge skill advantage and OP weapons.

I doubt we'll ever see Hela again, as it's possible the destruction of Asgard killed her- or Cate Blanchett is just too busy.

If we ever get a Thor 4 I wouldn't rule it out. She's the Goddess of Death and Odin was pretty clear that the Asgardians have some kind of afterlife. I'd love to see Heimdall's "I see you leading us to Hel" line from Age of Ultron turn out to be literal.

 

[Batmannerism]

He's unlikely to make that mistake twice and when did Hela ever decapitate anyone? IIRC, her blades were fairly thin and more useful at stabbing than slashing.

And those giant things she threw at Surtur really resembled spears more than swords tbh.

OTOH, a big axe is the perfect weapon to lop arms and heads off with.

Well, Hela does slash Thor a couple of times in the Throne room one of which hurt him and the other which cost him an eye.

I take @flickchick85 's point about Stormbreaker being bigger than Mjolnir and taking longer to swing. In close quarters it would suffer compared to Hela's swords and her speed/strength advantage.

Maybe Thor could distract Hela with a massive lightning blast and then throw it at her from a distance and it would embed itself in her, or cut off her head - a body hit probably won't do the trick.

Really we'll probably never know - I think Stormbreaker gives Thor a chance against Odin's firstborn. Maybe he's going to win 2/10 encounters. If he had fought Hela alone at the end of Ragnarok, without Val's help he might not have survived - remember he was only trying to delay her, because he knew that's all he could do.

Still I think we can safely say that the actual question of this thread has been answered - almost nobody thinks CM has a hope against the Goddess of death!

 

[Fosterson]

Well, Hela does slash Thor a couple of times in the Throne room one of which hurt him and the other which cost him an eye.

There's a big difference between a small cut and a full-blown decapitation.

I take @flickchick85 's point about Stormbreaker being bigger than Mjolnir and taking longer to swing. In close quarters it would suffer compared to Hela's swords and her speed/strength advantage.

What, so Stormbreaker is both barely more powerful than Mjolnir AND more cumbersome? Sounds like the worst weapon ever.

People forget that Mjolnir was hardly small to begin with, and it got progressively bigger over time to the point where the size difference between them arguably isn't that big IMO.

Besides, he's wielded MUCH bigger weapons effectively before:

That War Hammer dwarfs Stormbreaker in size and he was quite literally dancing around Hulk (who is no slow poke, let's remember) while wielding it.

Maybe Thor could distract Hela with a massive lightning blast and then throw it at her from a distance and it would embed itself in her, or cut off her head - a body hit probably won't do the trick.

Don't see why he wouldn't be able to given that Thor is now capable of raining down dozens of lightning bolts at once, even while simultaneously carrying out a larger AOE attack:

(Look at the corners of the screen)

And that's in addition to the lightning that's naturally coming off of his body and forming a kind of shield. Suffice to say, there'd be a lot of lightning coming Hela's way, and more than she'd be capable of no-selling IMO. I admit that the lightning wouldn't be enough to take her down, but all it needs to do is temporarily incapacitate her (like it did twice in Ragnarok, let's remember) to give Thor an opportunity to end her with Stormbreaker.

 

[Batmannerism]

There's a big difference between a small cut and a full-blown decapitation.

I don't know what you're talking about here, but Hela was toying with Thor during the Throne room fight. She could have killed him after She cut out his eye, but didn't bother because she didn't see him as much of a threat. We see Hela not even flinch from full on impalement by Asgardian swords and take a stab from Gungnir with no effect.

What, so Stormbreaker is both barely more powerful than Mjolnir AND more cumbersome? Sounds like the worst weapon ever.

People forget that Mjolnir was hardly small to begin with, and it got progressively bigger over time to the point where the size difference between them arguably isn't that big IMO.

Not sure how much more powerful Stormbreaker is than Mjolnir but probably quite a bit. However it has a significantly longer handle so swinging it is going to take more time - thats obvious right we don't need to do the maths on that do we ? Also Stormbreaker is constructed differently than Mjolnir, and probably isn't as well balanced because it has an axe head and a hammer head - where as Mjolnir is one continuous shape with it's weight distributed evenly.

One thing Stormbreaker can do that Mjolnir can't is spin after being thrown ( because it has a different balance ro Mjolnir) and which worked very well in the final battle of IW.

Besides, he's wielded MUCH bigger weapons effectively before:

That War Hammer dwarfs Stormbreaker in size and he was quite literally dancing around Hulk (who is no slow poke, let's remember) while wielding it.

I have seen Ragnarok bunch of times - I love that movie, but I suspect that Stormbreaker still has a longer handle and also Hulk is nowhere near as fast or skillful as Hela. Thor clearly outclasses Hulk but I think we disagree on Hela's speed advantage over Thor - there's no way he's going to dance around Hela. She would easily avoid those swings and her blades are much much faster than that in close quarters as she can create them and stab or slash in the same motion - as she showed when she wiped out Asgard's army.

Don't see why he wouldn't be able to given that Thor is now capable of raining down dozens of lightning bolts at once, even while simultaneously carrying out a larger AOE attack:

(Look at the corners of the screen)

And that's in addition to the lightning that's naturally coming off of his body and forming a kind of shield. Suffice to say, there'd be a lot of lightning coming Hela's way, and more than she'd be capable of no-selling IMO. I admit that the lightning wouldn't be enough to take her down, but all it needs to do is temporarily incapacitate her (like it did twice in Ragnarok, let's remember) to give Thor an opportunity to end her with Stormbreaker.

This is Thor's best chance. I think we'll disagree about how much effect Thor's lightning had on Hela. It destroyed the balcony and she fell but shortly after Thor himself state that " It did nothing".
With Stormbreaker Thor might at least be able to distract her with lightning long enough to land a decisive blow, although given how little effect Gungnir had on her one hit may not be enough.

That lightning is very effective against Zombie warriors and generic space monsters but against the Goddess of death, someone with a better claim on the Throne of Asgard than King Thor ? Hard to say.

I still go with Hela, but I say that Thor has a chance, which is a lot more than he had in Ragnarok. Even if Thor did defeat her, he'd be pretty horribly injured in the process and might end up losing a limb or two.

 

[Finarfiniel]

I've finally seen Captain Marvel, so now I can with no hesitation say Hela would win against CM, Hela is not only nigh invulnerable but she's a supremely deadly warrior with literally thousands of years combat experience. She'd slice Carol to ribbons without too much trouble.

Hela would beat Thor with Stormbreaker too, especially if she could separate him from it. Unlike some, Hela doesn't need cheat weapons or magical cosmic stones to beat powerful opponents, the weapons she uses come from her own body and are created using her own innate power.

 

[THORin]

I've finally seen Captain Marvel, so now I can with no hesitation say Hela would win against CM, Hela is not only nigh invulnerable but she's a supremely deadly warrior with literally thousands of years combat experience. She'd slice Carol to ribbons without too much trouble.

Hela would beat Thor with Stormbreaker too, especially if she could separate him from it. Unlike some, Hela doesn't need cheat weapons or magical cosmic stones to beat powerful opponents, the weapons she uses come from her own body and are created using her own innate power.

How did you like the film?

 

[Fosterson]

I don't know what you're talking about here, but Hela was toying with Thor during the Throne room fight. She could have killed him after She cut out his eye, but didn't bother because she didn't see him as much of a threat. We see Hela not even flinch from full on impalement by Asgardian swords and take a stab from Gungnir with no effect.

There's a big difference between cutting someone's eye and cutting their head off. That's what we're discussing here.

However it has a significantly longer handle so swinging it is going to take more time - thats obvious right we don't need to do the maths on that do we ? Also Stormbreaker is constructed differently than Mjolnir, and probably isn't as well balanced because it has an axe head and a hammer head - where as Mjolnir is one continuous shape with it's weight distributed evenly.

This is all speculation. Visually, it didn't seem to inhibit him at all:

And I still don't understand why Thor would go to such great lengths to get a weapon that actually makes him MORE vulnerable in combat.

I have seen Ragnarok bunch of times - I love that movie, but I suspect that Stormbreaker still has a longer handle and also Hulk is nowhere near as fast or skillful as Hela.

They look about the same size to me.

I grant you that Hela is a lot more skilled than Hulk. But faster? Not necessarily. Hulk casually catches RPGs and ejector seats. He's not exactly slow

Thor clearly outclasses Hulk but I think we disagree on Hela's speed advantage over Thor - there's no way he's going to dance around Hela. She would easily avoid those swings and her blades are much much faster than that in close quarters as she can create them and stab or slash in the same motion - as she showed when she wiped out Asgard's army.

And Thor can block her blades, as he showed in the Rainbow Bridge battle.

This is Thor's best chance. I think we'll disagree about how much effect Thor's lightning had on Hela. It destroyed the balcony and she fell but shortly after Thor himself state that " It did nothing".

It didn't damage her, but she was off screen for over two minutes during the Immigrant Song scene, so she must have been at least temporarily stunned. Similarly, when Thor blasted her on the Rainbow Bridge it took her over a minute to re-surface and attack Surtur. So again, unless she was hanging out with Asgard's aquatic life, she must have been temporarily incapacitated.

With Stormbreaker Thor might at least be able to distract her with lightning long enough to land a decisive blow, although given how little effect Gungnir had on her one hit may not be enough.

MCU Gungnir never really struck me as being particularly impressive though. Loki stabbed Thor with it in the first movie and he shrugged it off fairly easily (albeit not as nonchalantly as Hela). Aside from that, we only saw Odin use it to kill fodder Frost Giants and Dark Elves.

Stormbreaker is pretty clearly a lot more powerful IMO.

 

[metaphysician]

Eh. . . I am actually skeptical to what extant Stormbreaker is actually a power up for Thor, as opposed to simply being an extremely powerful weapon. In particular, Thor's best feat in the movie, arguably, he did before Stormbreaker was even created ( restarting Nidavelir ). "All" Stormbreaker gave to Thor was a weapon with enough raw offensive oomph that it could mortally wound Thanos even through his own countering beam.

As for the fight, Hela takes it. The only thing that actually substantially hurt ( killed? ) her was Surtur obliterating all of Asgard, and that is vastly beyond anything Carol came close to doing. She is otherwise facing a foe who has better reflexes, far greater skill, and who can largely no-sell her attacks while countering with firepower sufficient to maim or kill.

 

[BigThor]

I've finally seen Captain Marvel, so now I can with no hesitation say Hela would win against CM, Hela is not only nigh invulnerable but she's a supremely deadly warrior with literally thousands of years combat experience. She'd slice Carol to ribbons without too much trouble.

Hela would beat Thor with Stormbreaker too, especially if she could separate him from it. Unlike some, Hela doesn't need cheat weapons or magical cosmic stones to beat powerful opponents, the weapons she uses come from her own body and are created using her own innate power.

Idk if I would classify Stormbreaker as a "cheat weapon" since he actually forged it himself, Mjolnir would classify more as a cheat weapon.

 

[flickchick85]

Stormbreaker is MORE of a cheat weapon because it doesn't have any real established rules (yet). People here claim it's more powerful, but other than adding the Bifrost capabilities, there's very little basis for that beyond, "it can withstand the Gauntlet and stab Thanos!" Which, honestly tells us very little other than it's about as indestructible as a weapon can be. But an indestructible axe hardly puts Thor in another power bracket. The other stuff Thor was doing with it could've been done with (and some even without) Mjolnir. So I'm with @metaphysician in not seeing the great "power-up" y'all go on about.

 

[Stormborn]

Hela is clearly incredibly OP but I'd say Thor put up a more respectable fight in Ragnarok than some are giving him credit for:

Spoiler

Thor lands the first hit in the throne room fight against Hela:

Thor's lightning ragdolls Hela, stunning her enough that she falls limp onto the stone hundreds of feet below, leaving her out of the fight for the next two minutes (which according to the script is because the lightning knocked her out):

Thor's lightning disintegrates Hela's projectiles:

Whilst Hela has an edge in skill, once Thor unlocks his lightning he has her on the backfoot at times:

Thor eventually goes down because he takes his remaining eye off the fight to tell his people to flee:

These gifs are in chronological order, we've seen him take multiple stab wounds but other than the eye (presumably too complicated for his healing power) he completely recovers and does this:

Since then we've had Infinity War; Thor's shown ridiculous new strength/durability feats and Stormbreaker clearly amps at least some of his powers and let him practically one shot a nigh invulnerable villain.

Spoiler

Survived a power stone explosion intended to kill him:

Pulls open and holds open the gigantic Iris of the Nidavellir forge and survives the full force of a Neutron Star:

Plays tug of war with Rocket's ship and dislodges Nidavellir's frozen colossal Mega Rings

Casually slices through ships that are able to survive atmospheric re-entry

Overpowers a beam made from all 6 stones in the completed Infinity Gauntlet

 

[Batmannerism]

While Stormbreaker may be powerful enough to harm Hela Thor's durability and strength haven't changed since the end of Ragnarok, although at last he's got some impressive feats.

IMO the real difference from Ragnarok is that he has a new feeling of loss and desperation to motivate him.
Despite that there's nothing to suggest that Hela isn't still significantly stronger, faster and tougher than him.

In the Throne room fight Hela pretty much owns Thor, he gets in the first hit - which does nothing and then she's blocking the spear with her bare hands then throwing him around, slashing hims and cutting out his eye and then gloating while he's on his knees. She's got time to quip and be nasty to him and then lifts him up with one hand.

On the Bifrost his lightning does make a big difference because it blocks her death blades - but let's be honest the real reason he doesn't die is that Hela has to occasionally deal with Valkyrie - who lands an utterly ineffective kick before Hela casually tosses her aside.

With Val's help ( a complete impalement from behind) and the distraction of Surtur destroying Asgard he's able to knock her into the ocean.

Something people seem to be ignoring is that Thor wins in the end through having the insight to see the hard choice and then having the courage and wisdom to make it: that's what really shows he's ready to be a king ( something Hela couldn't do because she's just a conqueror but not really a Queen). It's not about how powerful he's become because he doesn't overpower or even come close to matching Hela - something he admits.

Winning in the way he did is much much more impressive than some display of strength or power.

Would Stormbreaker give him sufficient power to kill Hela ? Maybe, we'll probably never know. Same weight class ? Hmmmmm.......maybe, but she's still the champ and he's a contender.

 

[THORin]

I love how this CM vs Hela fight quickly became a Hela vs Thor rematch

(Hela still wins)

 

[jaqua99]

I'm not choosing to ignore anything. Hela would kick his ass any day of the week, new axe or not. I'm just not seeing the all-powerful, all-durable Thor in these movies that you guys are. Hell, the Thor I see gets injured in just about any fight with someone who comes close to matching his power. Sorry, he just ain't the ultimate unbeatable force to me he is to you guys. Still my favorite MCU Avenger, though.

If anyone's that unbeatable force, it's Hela. Even more so than Thanos - she's Cosmic Tier, imo.

The way I see it, Thor's weapons are simply a tool through which he channels his inherent power. They allow him more focused blasts of lightning. They don't "power him up," though. Only new power he gained from Stormbreaker that he didn't have with Mjolnir was the Bifrost. And of course it happens to be a sharp weapon needed for piercing Thanos' thick hide, and strong enough to survive any blast thrown at it. But it would have little effect on Hela. As we've seen, sharp things don't hurt her. Neither does his lightning.

To start, Thor's lightning did incapacitate her, albiet very briefly. These fights are to KO. If she's KO'd even if its just for a minute, and she recovers fine after a minute, its still a loss, using standard battle rules.

Mean no disrespect, but this take is full of bias within the context of our system. For the tier rankings, we use the same battles rules on most battle forums, feats > everything. Thor was able to fight a losing fight against Hela after his power up.

Thor got a VERY evident, quantifiable power up in IW. It doesn't matter if there aren't canon explanations for it. Thor has a greater strength feat, and arguably equal durability feats to Hela. Saying She was stronger and more durable (which she WAS) does not make a difference, because since then, Thor has had new feats that are superior to Hela's. Not to mention, Stormbreaker's MacGuffin like essence in that movie, and overpowering the blasts of the IG (even though the Russos confirmed it wasnt a full blast), puts IW Thor above Hela.

Same with CM. She was impressive, but feats win out here. Disagreeing doesn't make it wrong.

Hela absolutely does NOT meet our criteria for cosmic tier. When I initially typed up the tier rankings, each tier had a brief explanation as to what the minimum and maximum power displays were for each tier. The minimum criteria for cosmic tier is planetary level power. Hela took over Asgard with skill, and her own power. But her raw power was not planetary/continental or whatever you want to call it. Surtur had the power to decimate Asgard (and Hela), Ego controlled matter and energy as a celestial being on a planetary scale. The celestial with the power stone destroyed a planet. Odin supposedly defeated Surtur, although I am VERY ambivalent about his placement. Dormammu, well.. there's nothing to be said there. Strange with the time stone? Nothing to be said.

Surtur was below two or 3 characters within the cosmic tier, Hela couldn't do anything to him and he one shot her...a mid-low cosmic tier character. She belongs no where near the cosmic tier and she is accurately ranked based on the system we created.

Based off our tier system here, they way we've constructed it for a year and a half, and the format we used, It seems ironically that Hela is the one who is getting overrated here by a few specific posters within the context of the ranking system BT, Surfer and I created.


Most importantly, BT, Surfer and I put A LOT of time, thought and collaboration into creating this system, and I mean a lot...we got to know each other a bit, and we feel its a very solid representation of power levels in the MCU. In my personalized opinion, stating Hela belongs in the cosmic tier, and that Thor is overrated marginalizes and disregards the work and thought we put into this. People don't have to like where a character ends up, but based off of the tier criteria and the system we have created- the methods used to rank them, these characters are accurately ranked, like it or not.

 

[jaqua99]

Also, why did this turn into another Thor vs Hela thread? That's not what BT created. Keep it on topic guys.