Marvel Films MCU Phase IV!

[Kuwolski]

At this point we should get used to the idea that Ms.Marvel and Iron Heart are coming. Like I said earlier, we're at the point in the MCU where the creative choices will become more polarizing as more obscure or newer characters inevitably come into the fold.

 

[Kuwolski]

I can't believe how salty some people can get over something so stupid.

If you don't have anything to contribute then don't reply to me at all.

I'm salty about legacy characters I'm generally not interested in and even stated that Iron Heart and Ms. Marvel are two of them? Yeah 'fail in a spectacular way' is not based on anything legitimate other then personal preference or anecdotal evidence. As it's been stated by other, some of these newbies have strong followings and Marvel's track record speaks for itself.

 

[Bach]

I'm salty about legacy characters I'm generally not interested in and even stated that Iron Heart and Ms. Marvel are two of them? Yeah 'fail in a spectacular way' is not based on anything legitimate then personal preference. As it's been stated by other, some of these newbies have strong followings and Marvel's track record speaks for itself.

The same could be applied in the opposite way. There haven't been any films of legacy characters therefore we can't know they will be sucessful, and a "strong following" in the comics doesn't necessarily translate to a strong following in film. Not to mention we both know there's a huge difference between the comic book audience and film audience in terms of size. Yeah, Marvel Studios may be sucessful no matter what they release, but to say that their films are all of excellent quality would be dumb. I personally don't measure the quality of a film by how popular they are or how much money they make, but by the experience they give. You're just disregarding my opinion because you disagree with it.

 

[Abudefduf]

There haven't been any films of legacy characters therefore we can't know they will be sucessful

Into the Spider-Verse and Captain Marvel would like to have a word with you. One won Sony an Oscar, the other is one of the most successful MCU movies

 

[Bach]

Into the Spider-Verse and Captain Marvel would like to have a word with you. One won Sony an Oscar, the other is one of the most successful MCU movies

Into the Spider-Verse isn't part of the MCU, and Captain Marvel is a legacy character of who in the MCU exactly? And successful in what sense are we talking about?

 

[Kuwolski]

The same could be applied in the opposite way. There haven't been any films of legacy characters therefore we can't know they will be sucessful, and a "strong following" in the comics doesn't necessarily translate to a strong following in film. Not to mention we both know there's a huge difference between the comic book audience and film audience in terms of size. Yeah, Marvel Studios may be sucessful no matter what they release, but to say that their films are all of excellent quality would be dumb. I personally don't measure the quality of a film by how popular they are or how much money they make, but by the experience they give. You're just disregarding my opinion because you disagree with it.

No, I don't think every MCU film is great, so my issue wasn't with that at all. Sorry. My issue is the hyperbole that legacy character films will 'fail spectacularly' because....just because.

We didn't know Guardians would be successful. Captain Marvel was supposed to fail in some circles. Yet here we are. I'll trust a track record at this point over your self-assured post.

 

[Bach]

No, I don't think every MCU film is great, so my issue wasn't with that at all. Sorry. My issue is the hyperbole that legacy character films will 'fail spectacularly' because....just because.

We didn't know Guardians would be successful. Captain Marvel was supposed to fail in some circles. Yet here we are. I'll trust a track record at this point over your self-assured post.

Okay, so you didn't even get the point. Congrats.

I've already explained my reasoning, but in short what I said is that the attempt of replacing Iron Man will backfire in a spectacular way, in the sense that it just won't work. Unless it's an incredibly good written and directed film, I think that's what is going to happen. I never said it will 'fail spectacularly', because it will make money regardless of its quality.

And Guardians has nothing to do with this discussion. They were obscure characters that became successful, so? Yeah, it may not be the same team as in the comics but in the eyes of the MCU and its fans, the Guardians of the film are the first team. Captain Marvel is just another mediocre film that made money, like Fast and Furious and Transformers. Nothing impressive.

 

[Kuwolski]

Okay, so you didn't even get the point. Congrats.

I've already explained my reasoning, but in short what I said is that the attempt of replacing Iron Man will backfire in a spectacular way, in the sense that it just won't work. Unless it's an incredibly good written and directed film, I think that's what is going to happen. I never said it will 'fail spectacularly', because it will make money regardless of its quality.

And Guardians has nothing to do with this discussion. They were obscure characters that became successful, so? Yeah, it may not be the same team as in the comics but in the eyes of the MCU and its fans, the Guardians of the film are the first team. Captain Marvel is just another mediocre film that made money, like Fast and Furious and Transformers. Nothing impressive.

Yeah, that's where opinion of what is great or what 'works' comes into play. I'm certain I can easily find relevant people (like James Gunn) who's favorite MCU film is Iron Man or industry people who think Black Panther is great. So the way others perceive things may not gel with your ironclad consensus of what is a 9, or even well written or directed.

And Guardians is relevant because people were already placing absolutes on it right after it was announced, perscriptions for what It would need to be successful or else..

 

[Bayne]

It does. Tony will forever be associated with the Iron Man suit. Someone wearing it or an amalgam of it is treading on his identity and the very the one he proclaimed "I am Iron Man."

A) You've completely switched arguments. 'Treading on his identity' is not about being a copycat, it's some weird 'disrespecting saint Tony' bs.

B) Ironheart would not 'tread on his identity' anymore than War Machine and Rescue already have.

C) Marvel already made a movie about Scott Lang becoming Ant-man by literally stealing Hank Pym's suit. They clearly don't give a **** about this hang-up you seem to have.

 

[Lookhowfunnyiam]

Into the Spider-Verse isn't part of the MCU, and Captain Marvel is a legacy character of who in the MCU exactly? And successful in what sense are we talking about?

Into the Spider-Verse is relevant because you were talking about a film about a legacy character being undone and unproven. It was JUST done, the fact that it wasn’t MCU is irrelevant and actually strengthens the point because it didn’t have the MCU’s rep driving its success.

How’s Ant-Man then?

In what way has Spider-Man not been a legacy character to Iron Man in the MCU?

 

[Lookhowfunnyiam]

I don’t know why people are acting like Ms Marvel would be a retread of Captain Marvel or is some storyline that would have to be in a Captain Marvel movie. She’s a Pakistani teenager in modern New Jersey who has a goofy tone of humor and her powers are closer to Mr Fantastic than Captain Marvel. Her movie would be way closer to Spider-Man than anything. She takes the name for ideological reasons, it’s entirely likely/possible that she wouldn’t meet Captain Marvel until the post-credits or the sequel.

We JUST saw critics and audiences embrace a movie about Miles Morales featuring Spider-Gwen. Spider-Man is basically a legacy character to Iron Man in the MCU. War Machine definitely is. Ant-Man is a legacy character, so is Wasp. Teen Groot debatably is too lol. We just saw Cap pass the shield. Why are we pretending that legacy characters are gonna be where the casual audience draws the line?

And trust me, some I’d way rather see than others. I’d way rather see Ms Marvel than say a Jane Foster Thor movie.

 

[Kuwolski]

I love Spider-Gwen, but I don't really see her as a legacy character the way Miles is. She has her own universe where things are turned upside down, which works in the context of a solo film or multiverse storyline. I wouldn't want her in the MCU unless they explore the multiverse though, which I expect at some point.

 

[JtheDreamer]

A) You've completely switched arguments. 'Treading on his identity' is not about being a copycat, it's some weird 'disrespecting saint Tony' bs.

B) Ironheart would not 'tread on his identity' anymore than War Machine and Rescue already have.

C) Marvel already made a movie about Scott Lang becoming Ant-man by literally stealing Hank Pym's suit. They clearly don't give a **** about this hang-up you seem to have.

War Machine and Rescue were never given their own solo movies/shows the latter of which was a 2min fan wank cameo. They also never spent 10+ years building out Hank Pym's Ant-Man like they did with Tony.

 

[Bayne]

War Machine and Rescue were never given their own solo movies/shows the latter of which was a 2min fan wank cameo. They also never spent 10+ years building out Hank Pym's Ant-Man like they did with Tony.

And? It doesn't magically become more 'disrespectful' by having more screentime. And I'd pretty much guarantee any eventual Ironheart movie would co-star Rescue (and possibly have some kind of role or cameo for War Machine), too.

One can argue to some extent whether audiences will respond to Ironheart or not specifically because of how related she is to Iron Man (and that could just as easily be considered a possible boost as it can a possible danger), but that has nothing to do with whether the movie will be good. Nor does it have anything to do with legacy characters in general since Tony Stark is basically the only character around who exists on that level at this point.

As has been mentioned before Ms. Marvel would be a far more original character to introduce to the MCU at this point than most of the 'original' characters that are actually currently rumored. And even someone like Mile Morales or Kate Bishop would be no more repetitive than them, either.

 

[Flash525]

Well Marvel can't do a she hulk movie probably because of Universal, while a Spider-Woman is probably tied with Sony. So I guess Iron Heart would be mcu's answer for their first legacy hero movie as Hank Pym didnt have his own film before Scott Lang headlined his Ant-Man movie.

A Hank Pym trilogy wouldn't be totally impossible; Captain Marvel was a prequel, why couldn't they recast Hank, and do a prequel with him and Janet? Not right now, but in a few years, it's well within the realm of possibilities.

At the same time we've had twenty years of X-Men films whose characters and powersets we'll see again in the MCU. They'll be different enough and exist in the MCU, but in many respects we'll have seen it all before. In that way they'll be measured by the legacy of the Fox universe, however good, bad or indifferent it was.

This'll be controversial, but I don't want the X-Men in the MCU.

If the MCU wishes to include certain X-Men characters, then I'd prefer for them to be a) limited, and b) simply enhanced, like Wanda and her brother. I don't care for the X gene running around within the MCU. The likes of Xavier, Eric, Logan (etc) simply wouldn't have (not) been involved with global events that have occurred if they were already in the field. No explanation is going to account for that.

At this point we should get used to the idea that Ms.Marvel and Iron Heart are coming. Like I said earlier, we're at the point in the MCU where the creative choices will become more polarizing as more obscure or newer characters inevitably come into the fold.

In hindsight, I wouldn't mind a few of them coming around, but ... not yet. We've just lost Tony, lets wait a good few years before we start introducing similar characters.

B) Ironheart would not 'tread on his identity' anymore than War Machine and Rescue already have.

Because they'd be relevant in their own big screen stories, wouldn't they?

 

[Bayne]

Because they'd be relevant in their own big screen stories, wouldn't they?

Like I said, Rescue is pretty much guaranteed a co-star spot in the Ironheart movie. Hell as long as everything is still rumor, for all we know, it could be a Rescue movie co-starring Ironheart, or it could be co-starring both of them and titled something completely different. If she never does anything else outside of hanging out with Ironheart, that probably has more to do with Gwyneth Paltrow not necessarily being interested in a major ongoing time investment than anything else (especially now that Disney+ opens up the options).

War Machine is a character I could see going almost any direction from where he is now so I have absolutely no idea what will ultimately happen with him.

 

[Abudefduf]

Random reminder that She-Hulk rules and deserves her own movie.

Into the Spider-Verse isn't part of the MCU

Does it matter? It's a great movie starring a legacy character. And not just any legacy character... the successor of the world's most popular superhero (arguably).

Iand Captain Marvel is a legacy character of who in the MCU exactly? And successful in what sense are we talking about?

Again, does it matter? She's a legacy character in the comics, the 5th or 6th person to hold the mantle of Captain Marvel. Marvel made her movie work and as a result they earned one billion. That's how successful it was.

C) Marvel already made a movie about Scott Lang becoming Ant-man by literally stealing Hank Pym's suit. They clearly don't give a **** about this hang-up you seem to have.

That's right, I forgot Scott Lang.

 

[psylockolussus]

War Machine and Rescue were never given their own solo movies/shows the latter of which was a 2min fan wank cameo. They also never spent 10+ years building out Hank Pym's Ant-Man like they did with Tony.

Yeah its not like we got Hank Pym to star his own films and joined the Avengers and Scott Lang replaced him to lead the Ant-Man films. The general public probably doesn't know that Hank Pym was the more essential character/ has the longer comics history as Ant-Man than Scott Lang. Though even with their decision, I wish they had Hank / Janet in the action as Ant-Man and the Wasp over the legacy characters from the comics. If I was an Ant-Man or Wasp or Avengers fan, I would have been pissèd off.

The Ant-Man case wouldn't be the same if Iron Heart, Ms. Marvel, Miles Morales got their own films in the mcu as we already got Tony and Peter headlined their films with their respective superhero name. Even if Carol wasn't called Ms. Marvel in the mcu, she's still THE Ms. Marvel to me.

Speaking of Carol Danvers, to me before her film was released, she was already more familiar to me than Mar-Vell so I didn't mind they tossed Mar-vell over Carol. However, they should have kept the Ms. Marvel identity as (before the movie came out) it was more iconic, personally speaking.

And people say, that some of the legacy characters are more interesting than their precedessors... then why in the world they were turned into a legacy character by taking the mantle of an already popular or well developed superhero? Iron Heart will always be seen as Iron Man 2.0 no matter how great she is in the comics. Miles will always be called the 2nd Spider-Man or replacement or another version of Spider-Man, not the OG or the definitive Spider-Man.

And yes Lazyness was part of their creation, because for Marvel Comics it would be easier to build up Miles / Gwen as the new Spider-people... instead of selling them to the public as Grasshopper Man / Butterfly-Gwen. Its the reason why we have so many Spider-people, Wolverines, characters with the American flag, inspired costume similar to Steve, characters that can turn into the Hulk... its coattailing the popularity of a certain character. Next thing we'd get is a legacy character of Dr. Strange and Shang-Chi in the comics.

 

[Xarus]

Spider-man is NOT Iron Man's legacy character in the MCU. Some of you missed the point completely in FFH. It's even said out loud in the film: "You will never be the next Iron Man".

 

[Bayne]

Yeah its not like we got Hank Pym to star his own films and joined the Avengers and Scott Lang replaced him to lead the Ant-Man films. The general public probably doesn't know that Hank Pym was the more essential character/ has the longer comics history as Ant-Man than Scott Lang. Though even with their decision, I wish they had Hank / Janet in the action as Ant-Man and the Wasp over the legacy characters from the comics. If I was an Ant-Man or Wasp or Avengers fan, I would have been pissèd off.

The Ant-Man case wouldn't be the same if Iron Heart, Ms. Marvel, Miles Morales got their own films in the mcu as we already got Tony and Peter headlined their films with their respective superhero name. Even if Carol wasn't called Ms. Marvel in the mcu, she's still THE Ms. Marvel to me.

Speaking of Carol Danvers, to me before her film was released, she was already more familiar to me than Mar-Vell so I didn't mind they tossed Mar-vell over Carol. However, they should have kept the Ms. Marvel identity as (before the movie came out) it was more iconic, personally speaking.

And people say, that some of the legacy characters are more interesting than their precedessors... then why in the world they were turned them into a legacy character by taking the mantle of an already popular or well developed superhero? Iron Heart will always be seen as Iron Man 2.0 no matter how great she is. Miles will always be called the 2nd Spider-Man or replacement or another version of Spider-Man.

And yes Lazyness was part of their creation, because for Marvel Comics it would be easier to build up Miles / Gwen as the new Spider-people... instead of selling them to the public as Grasshopper Man / Butterfly-Gwen. Its the reason why we have so many Spider-people, Wolverines, characters with the American flag, inspired costume similar to Steve, characters that can into the Hulk... its coattailing the popularity of a certain character. next thing we'd get is a legacy character of Dr. Strange and Shang-Chi in the comics.

How is 'replacing a long running popular character' in any way a relevant objection to Ms. Marvel or Miles Morales? Her story doesn't even work as well if Captain Marvel goes away (which she obviously won't) and if he ever appears in the MCU it'll be in addition to Peter Parker, who isn't going anywhere unless Sony pulls the plug, in which case Miles goes with him.

As for the point of attaching them to the legacy of other characters - because those are interesting stories to tell. They go to some fundamental concepts of heroism. Making a difference. Inspiring others. Living up to legendary examples. They are interesting types of characters to explore and offer story possibilities that single heroes establishing their own legacy from scratch don't offer. As well as enriching the world-building of the MCU in general, by establishing a sense of legacy beyond generic pronouncements of how beloved character x is by 'people'. This obsession of cutting out legacy characters because 'lazy' is just bulldogged impoverishment of the narrative possibilities for no good reason.

And Ironheart has never been Iron Man 2.0 for me, probably for others, too. Maybe the general audience views her that way, maybe not. In the past you'd've said the same thing about any number of characters who have sinced established their own separate identities (or even eclipsed their predecessors), though, so I see no reason to take that obviously biased opinion as fact.

 

[Flash525]

Like I said, Rescue is pretty much guaranteed a co-star spot in the Ironheart movie. Hell as long as everything is still rumor, for all we know, it could be a Rescue movie co-starring Ironheart, or it could be co-starring both of them and titled something completely different. If she never does anything else outside of hanging out with Ironheart, that probably has more to do with Gwyneth Paltrow not necessarily being interested in a major ongoing time investment than anything else (especially now that Disney+ opens up the options).

Didn't Gwyneth specifically say that Endgame would be her last MCU appearance?

War Machine is a character I could see going almost any direction from where he is now so I have absolutely no idea what will ultimately happen with him.

I doubt we'll see Rhodes, Sam or Bucky on the big screen again anytime soon, at least not short of cameos. Despite getting the Shield, I don't think they're going to be turning Sam into Captain America II.

 

[psylockolussus]

In the past you'd've said the same thing about any number of characters who have sinced established their own separate identities (or even eclipsed their predecessors), though, so I see no reason to take that obviously biased opinion as fact.

I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Bayne]

Didn't Gwyneth specifically say that Endgame would be her last MCU appearance?

I doubt we'll see Rhodes, Sam or Bucky on the big screen again anytime soon, at least not short of cameos. Despite getting the Shield, I don't think they're going to be turning Sam into Captain America II.

She said she was too old to be in a suit anymore. She also said if they needed her for a day or something, she'd be there in a heartbeat and that she was happy she got talked into doing the MCU in the first place. I suspect if you give her the opportunity to play mentor to the first black female superhero to get her own movie, she'd happily let herself get talked into that, too. Worst case scenario maybe she says 'No Rescue, just Pepper'. And if not, she'd at least be there for a small appearance of some kind.

As for the others, I don't see how you have Sam as Cap and not include him in the Avengers, though there are the rumors that there won't be any more Avengers movies for a bit. There's also the question of how the Disney+ shows will interact with the movies, but so far they seem very determined to create the impression that characters will move back and forth, not just get stuck on Disney+ forever.

I'd say War Machine cameos at least are a certainty, because the character hasn't had any sort of closure and has no particular place to shuffle off to, though its hard to say what those cameos might be or what movies they might happen in. Personally I'm rather inclined to the idea of him taking over Thunderbolt Ross's job for a while, especially if Ross's career gets screwed up with the Thunderbolts movie, which I expect it will. But he could do almost anything they want him to.

 

[MbJ]

 

[Detective Conan]

The guy who originally reported on Marvel developing a 60’s period piece Fantastic Four film(he’s been pretty reliable in the past) posted his prediction for the movies Marvel will announce on Saturday.

I think this is mostly on point but I’m not confident Marvel will actually have a FF related annoucement this Saturday. I think a Captain Marvel sequel will likely be announced before FF.