MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[metaphysician]

Do you guys consider Deadpool apart of the MCU? I Mean, it's rumored that he will straight up crossover into the MCU. Can he and his gang be considered a MCU guys?

Not *yet*, strictly speaking. They've not appeared in any actual canonical MCU story. However, unlike any other former Fox characters, its at least reasonable to presume that he *will be* canon. . . or at least, that his new state will be such as to blur lines and render questions of canonicity loose and largely a matter of opinion ( or punchline ).

As for Avengers vs the Black Order? I generally favor the Avengers for most of the reasons mentioned, but feel like the Black Order is being underestimated in a couple areas:

-Tony Stark currently has a *much* more primitive armor, specifically one not made of shapeshifting self repairing nanotechnology. He absolutely *can't* afford to get into a fight with Ebony Maw. If the Maw gets a chance to engage him, Tony will be stripped out of his armor in a second and rendered useless if not dead.

-Cull Obsidian was only ultimately killed by a combination of Hulkbuster tech slamming him into a force field that vaporized orbital drop ships the size of skyscrapers. I'm not at all willing to say that such wouldn't be able to kill the Hulk, too. The Hulk may well be able to fight him, but it wouldn't be some easy victory, but a long hard battle that would keep the Hulk just as occupied.

-Corvus Glaive is a ninja assassin with the mother of all spears. He maimed the Vision, vibranium body and all, with one blow. There is no member of the Avengers who can afford to be backstabbed by him.

So basically, the Avengers win. . . but only if they keep Corvus Glaive in sight at all times, and keep Ebony Maw fighting someone other than Iron Man. Either of those mistakes would probably be fatal.

 

[Docker2.0]

Not *yet*, strictly speaking. They've not appeared in any actual canonical MCU story. However, unlike any other former Fox characters, its at least reasonable to presume that he *will be* canon. . . or at least, that his new state will be such as to blur lines and render questions of canonicity loose and largely a matter of opinion ( or punchline ).

As for Avengers vs the Black Order? I generally favor the Avengers for most of the reasons mentioned, but feel like the Black Order is being underestimated in a couple areas:

-Tony Stark currently has a *much* more primitive armor, specifically one not made of shapeshifting self repairing nanotechnology. He absolutely *can't* afford to get into a fight with Ebony Maw. If the Maw gets a chance to engage him, Tony will be stripped out of his armor in a second and rendered useless if not dead.

-Cull Obsidian was only ultimately killed by a combination of Hulkbuster tech slamming him into a force field that vaporized orbital drop ships the size of skyscrapers. I'm not at all willing to say that such wouldn't be able to kill the Hulk, too. The Hulk may well be able to fight him, but it wouldn't be some easy victory, but a long hard battle that would keep the Hulk just as occupied.

-Corvus Glaive is a ninja assassin with the mother of all spears. He maimed the Vision, vibranium body and all, with one blow. There is no member of the Avengers who can afford to be backstabbed by him.

So basically, the Avengers win. . . but only if they keep Corvus Glaive in sight at all times, and keep Ebony Maw fighting someone other than Iron Man. Either of those mistakes would probably be fatal.

Finally someone who makes an argument that it isn't so one sided. I to think the Avengers would win but not as simple as it seems to be.

Also, Deadpool is probably going to be inserted in the MCU as is and I wanted to try and use the characters even though some have not made it into the MCU yet, especially the ones that are comic accurate, like Colossus and Juggernaut. But wanted to get people's opinion before I do so.

 

[Batmannerism]

Not *yet*, strictly speaking. They've not appeared in any actual canonical MCU story. However, unlike any other former Fox characters, its at least reasonable to presume that he *will be* canon. . . or at least, that his new state will be such as to blur lines and render questions of canonicity loose and largely a matter of opinion ( or punchline ).

As for Avengers vs the Black Order? I generally favor the Avengers for most of the reasons mentioned, but feel like the Black Order is being underestimated in a couple areas:

-Tony Stark currently has a *much* more primitive armor, specifically one not made of shapeshifting self repairing nanotechnology. He absolutely *can't* afford to get into a fight with Ebony Maw. If the Maw gets a chance to engage him, Tony will be stripped out of his armor in a second and rendered useless if not dead.

-Cull Obsidian was only ultimately killed by a combination of Hulkbuster tech slamming him into a force field that vaporized orbital drop ships the size of skyscrapers. I'm not at all willing to say that such wouldn't be able to kill the Hulk, too. The Hulk may well be able to fight him, but it wouldn't be some easy victory, but a long hard battle that would keep the Hulk just as occupied.

-Corvus Glaive is a ninja assassin with the mother of all spears. He maimed the Vision, vibranium body and all, with one blow. There is no member of the Avengers who can afford to be backstabbed by him.

So basically, the Avengers win. . . but only if they keep Corvus Glaive in sight at all times, and keep Ebony Maw fighting someone other than Iron Man. Either of those mistakes would probably be fatal.

Agree that Maw is the big threat but also a glass cannon - if he's distracted Hawkeye or Widow would literally kill him. Also, he was able to deflect large objects thrown at him but not groups of small objects ( could he contain an explosion like Wanda ? Doubt it) if Tony uses his missiles or darts then Maw might have a problem. I see Maw getting fried by Thor pretty quickly though. Maw's biggest weakness is his propensity to talk his opponents to death - which would give someone like Widow a chance to sneak up and bust a cap in his dome.

Cull.... well the force field killed him but so did being stomped on by Giant Man. IMO Hulk or Thor beats him to a pulp.

Glaive..... great at backstabbing but Okoye ( with no superpowers) killed him with a single spear thrust. The Avengers have a numerical advantage so surprise attacks may not be so easy. Sure if he manages to sneak up on Thor and impale him from behind the Avengers are in trouble but in a straight up fight that seems unlikely.

So agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Docker2.0]

One of the Russo's alluded to Ebony Maw being a wizard, not just telekinetic, meaning he's probably above Dr. Strange as he was able to handle him easily with no problems so I doubt either Wanda or Clint would be able to get close to him at all.

 

[Docker2.0]

Avengers win 4-0 over the Black Order. Next up:
Ultron

Vs. the Guardians of the Galaxy

So far I'm guessing I'm 0-1 for including the Deadpool-verse in the MCU in this thread, though he and Ryan Reynolds are clearly going there. Vote guys so I can know if I could/should.

 

[random_havoc]

Ultron

 

[Luigi]

GOTG

As always, Rocket is the GOTG's ace in the hole and would come up with something to disable Ultron. Not to mention, Ultron's vibranium suit isn't as durable as it seems.

Man, this would have been a fun clash of personalities. Wish this could have taken place in the MCU.

 

[Batmannerism]

One of the Russo's alluded to Ebony Maw being a wizard, not just telekinetic, meaning he's probably above Dr. Strange as he was able to handle him easily with no problems so I doubt either Wanda or Clint would be able to get close to him at all.

Well, Maw couldn't undo Strange's spell on the amulet ( hence the torture session on the doughnut ship) so he can't be much of a sorceror. How he beat Strange is by stopping him from casting spells by physically restraining him - if Strange can't do his jazz hands to activate the eye of agomotto or cast groovy spells then he's in trouble - the reason Strange was.able to take.on Thanks ( who had 4 infinity stones) was because he could freely cast spells. Maw didn't use magic, he exploited a weakness.

As far as him being able to handle surprise attacks, he didn't stop Tony blasting a hole in the hull, or stop himself being sucked out into space.

He threw a whole mess of sharpened bricks at Strange and Wong, who threw them straight back - and Maw got clipped by one.

IMO if he sees an attack coming he's got good defensive skills with his power - if he's distracted he's vulnerable. He might be crushing Tony with some rocks or fighting off Thor or whoever and Clint puts an arrow through his back or Widow lines up a shot ( she's hit Bucky in the face at a distance with a hnad gun) and he's finished.

On an unrelated note, after Wanda nearly killed Thanos by herself I think we should revisit the idea that Maw could beat her.

 

[Batmannerism]

Avengers win 4-0 over the Black Order. Next up:
Ultron

Vs. the Guardians of the Galaxy

So far I'm guessing I'm 0-1 for including the Deadpool-verse in the MCU in this thread, though he and Ryan Reynolds are clearly going there. Vote guys so I can know if I could/should.

GOTG take this, although not easily. Cap could go one on one with Ultron so Drax, Nebula and Gamora can too. While Ultron would knock them around Quill and Rocket would come up with a way to disable him or a gadget to take him out. Mantis would be utterly useless here but at least would be a momentary distraction.

 

[Docker2.0]

Ultron

You actually left the Marvel comics forum?!

 

[Docker2.0]

GOTG edge Ultron 2-1. Next up:

Iron Man

vs. The Abomination

So..............Deadpool-verse in the MCU?..............yes or no?...................

 

[Bayne]

Realistically, Iron Man was only able to 'beat' the Hulk because he was still woozy and confused from Wanda's mindgames. Iron Man doesn't have the technology to take down a hulk level threat by himself. Abomination wins.

Re Deadpool: I remain agnostic as to whether and in exactly what capacity he will actually show up in the MCU, but for the purposes of a thread like this, who cares? Bring him on. The more the merrier.

 

[Docker2.0]

Realistically, Iron Man was only able to 'beat' the Hulk because he was still woozy and confused from Wanda's mindgames. Iron Man doesn't have the technology to take down a hulk level threat by himself. Abomination wins.

Re Deadpool: I remain agnostic as to whether and in exactly what capacity he will actually show up in the MCU, but for the purposes of a thread like this, who cares? Bring him on. The more the merrier.

Thanks! So far 1-1 for DP.

 

[Batmannerism]

Which Iron Man ? Even pre nanotech Iron Man has a chance - Hulkbuster definitely does.

One of the things that hasn't been considered about Iron Man vs Hulk is that Iron Man was only trying to subdue Hulk , who is one of his best friends (Bruce Banner).

Against Abomination - where killing him is a preferred option then Tony has a good chance. The Abomination may not be able to endure Tony' s tankbuster missiles or cutting lasers to his face.

I'm going with Tony on this one.

 

[Bayne]

^As far as we know, killing a Hulk is literally impossible. Certainly with conventional weapons like missiles. You maybe can knock him out with enough force in order to end the fight which is what the Hulkbuster armor achieved, but only because Hulk was distracted and confused and only after being repeatedly shredded by the Hulk (without those reinforcement parts Friday sent, Tony would've been street pizza). The Nanotech version would be less in need of constant replacement parts, but even that wasn't unbreakable as we saw in Endgame.

 

[metaphysician]

Ultron vs Guardians of the Galaxy:

Assuming this is *just* Ultron Prime and not the whole giant army? I'd say worse than a coin flip. People mentioning Cap fighting Ultron have forgotten that Cap fought the *earlier* version of Ultron, not the final vibranium body form, who got into direct slugging matches with people like Vision and Thor, and otherwise took an absurd amount of damage over the movie.

Can the Guardians win? *Maybe*, and it all depends on Rocket coming up with some techno-wizardry. Even with numbers, though, its going to be a blood bath. Probably comes down to whether they can distract Ultron from realizing how threatening Rocket is, and/or otherwise keep him angry and focused on someone else. This is the kind of strategy that has a fairly high chance of "Peter Quill dead with an vibranium fist punched through his chest", is the thing.

Iron Man vs the Abomination:

Obviously, like every Iron Man fight, this boils down to "Which armor?" That said? The fundamental fact is that the Abomination is an inferior Hulk. As long as Tony has something Hulkbuster or later, he should win the fight the majority of the time. Sure, it'll be a long fight, but he has far better range and mobility, he can afford to have the fight take longer.

( Why do I say the Abomination is an inferior Hulk? Because the Hulk had the fewest, worst feats of power in TIH compared with his other appearances, and despite this, the Abomination *lost*, even though he was, theoretically, an elite soldier with full human intelligence versus a childlike Hulk with no fighting skill worth noting. )

 

[Docker2.0]

Ultron vs Guardians of the Galaxy:

Assuming this is *just* Ultron Prime and not the whole giant army? I'd say worse than a coin flip. People mentioning Cap fighting Ultron have forgotten that Cap fought the *earlier* version of Ultron, not the final vibranium body form, who got into direct slugging matches with people like Vision and Thor, and otherwise took an absurd amount of damage over the movie.

Can the Guardians win? *Maybe*, and it all depends on Rocket coming up with some techno-wizardry. Even with numbers, though, its going to be a blood bath. Probably comes down to whether they can distract Ultron from realizing how threatening Rocket is, and/or otherwise keep him angry and focused on someone else. This is the kind of strategy that has a fairly high chance of "Peter Quill dead with an vibranium fist punched through his chest", is the thing.

Iron Man vs the Abomination:

Obviously, like every Iron Man fight, this boils down to "Which armor?" That said? The fundamental fact is that the Abomination is an inferior Hulk. As long as Tony has something Hulkbuster or later, he should win the fight the majority of the time. Sure, it'll be a long fight, but he has far better range and mobility, he can afford to have the fight take longer.

( Why do I say the Abomination is an inferior Hulk? Because the Hulk had the fewest, worst feats of power in TIH compared with his other appearances, and despite this, the Abomination *lost*, even though he was, theoretically, an elite soldier with full human intelligence versus a childlike Hulk with no fighting skill worth noting. )

Bring your ass to these fights on time!

 

[Luigi]

Iron Man

Abomination struggled to defeat a weaker version of the Hulk.

 

[Docker2.0]

Iron Man wins 3-1. Next up:

The Vision

vs Ronan the Accuser

Next round will include Deadpool characters since it's pretty much a given that he will be going ton MCU with Ryan Reynolds and crew. The votes were 2-1.........

 

[Batmannerism]

Iron Man wins 3-1. Next up:

The Vision

vs Ronan the Accuser

Next round will include Deadpool characters since it's pretty much a given that he will be going ton MCU with Ryan Reynolds and crew. The votes were 2-1.........

Vision takes this. Against Ronan with no power stone, it's a curb stomp - Ronan's physical strength probably not as great as Vision's, and in hand to hand Vision can use his density control ( like he did against Hawkeye).

With the power stone it gets more interesting - although Vision has a big advantage in that because he's not organic he could simply rip the power stone out of Ronan's hammer. Ronan is very durable ( which I suspect comes from the stone) but could he take a blast from the mind stone, followed up by Vision's strength ? I doubt it.

 

[Luigi]

Vision

Superior strength and density control gives him a huge advantage.

 

[Docker2.0]

Oh my bad guys! Ronan does have the power stone. Vision has the mind stone so it's only fair right?

 

[Batmannerism]

Oh my bad guys! Ronan does have the power stone. Vision has the mind stone so it's only fair right?

That's cool. I still pick the Vision - because he's not organic, as well as being super powerful.

They would both be messed up at the end of the fight but I see Vision's density control and flight giving him the edge.

 

[Docker2.0]

Vision wins.........2-0. Two votes. but hopefully the thread picks up. Up next:

Quiksilver

vs the Amazing Spiderman

Who we got people?

 

[Imjenn]

This is a fun one to think about. Despite the speed advantage, I think Spider-man has more mobility, at least as far as being able to utilize the air vs being stuck on the ground.

I'll have to watch Age of Ultron again. Does this version of Quicksilver have the ability to run up walls? That would make a huge difference to me.

When Quicksilver was fighting the avengers they appeared nearly motionless from his perspective. I think Spidey is a bit faster then them individually, but I'm unsure where to go. I think Spider-man would win, just based on being able to use the third dimension, and I could see his webbing being a problem with Quicksilver.

I vote Spidey but could be persuaded otherwise.