MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Batmannerism]

Ikaris wins. Next up:

Shang chi

vs US Agent

Who you got peeps?!

Shang Chi vs Walker no rings, no serum ..Shang Chi wins.

Shang Chi with Rings beats Walker, even with the serum.

Shang Chi no rings vs Walker post-serum
Should be Walker 10/10.
Shang Chi may operate under wuxia bull**** rules but he's human. He shouldn't be able to hurt Walker- Razorfist, despite having the world's dumbest prosthetic is still only human.

The feats that even barely trained supersoldiers perform- even in that piece of **** FATWS far outstrip anything Shang Chi does.

Bucky jumps out of a low flying plane hits a bunch of trees and jogs on. Walker bends a steel pipe effortlessly and supports the weight of an armoured truck.

****ing Karli kills a normal man with a single punch - Walker who's bigger, stronger and better trained should be splattering human level opponents.

So Walker by a mile.

Loki vs Carnage

Should be Loki. Loki from the movies, wins no problem - casts an illusion and stabs Cletus in the ****ing head.

Loki from his own show.....depends if he's got the powers he never had before and suddenly manifests because the writers are ****.

Lady Loki beats Carnage easily, because he's part of the patriarchy ....**** off show !

 

[Luigi]

In the battle of superpowered beings with daddy issues, Loki takes the win handily.

 

[Batgirl0202]

Loki for sure. All he would need to do is teleport the symbiote into a volcano or the sun and it would be game over lol...

10/10

 

[Spider-Aziz]

LOKI

 

[InCali]

Stop it. Loki got beat by a couple of TSA guys.
*looks for a Batmannerism rant*

Hey, those Transportation Security Administration guys are NOT to be messed with.

 

[Docker2.0]

Shang Chi vs Walker no rings, no serum ..Shang Chi wins.

Shang Chi with Rings beats Walker, even with the serum.

Shang Chi no rings vs Walker post-serum
Should be Walker 10/10.
Shang Chi may operate under wuxia bull**** rules but he's human. He shouldn't be able to hurt Walker- Razorfist, despite having the world's dumbest prosthetic is still only human.

The feats that even barely trained supersoldiers perform- even in that piece of **** FATWS far outstrip anything Shang Chi does.

Bucky jumps out of a low flying plane hits a bunch of trees and jogs on. Walker bends a steel pipe effortlessly and supports the weight of an armoured truck.

****ing Karli kills a normal man with a single punch - Walker who's bigger, stronger and better trained should be splattering human level opponents.

So Walker by a mile.

Loki vs Carnage

Should be Loki. Loki from the movies, wins no problem - casts an illusion and stabs Cletus in the ****ing head.

Loki from his own show.....depends if he's got the powers he never had before and suddenly manifests because the writers are ****.

Lady Loki beats Carnage easily, because he's part of the patriarchy ....**** off show !

That's it?! That's all you going to give me?!

 

[Batmannerism]

That's it?! That's all you going to give me?!

If I start on the Loki series....where will it end? When a fascist character like Judge Renslayer has more agency than Loki ( who can be manhandled by humans - remember when he threw Tony Stark out a window with one hand and survived a beating from the Hulk ?) Well **** that ****, I'm pretending it never happened.

They couldn't even be bothered getting an A lister to play Kang - useless bastards.

 

[metaphysician]

Loki vs Carnage:

Loki every time, for more or less the same reason as Thor. He's just out of Carnage's league.

( Also, the TVA would *also* beat up Carnage, at least if they have the advantage of setting the terms of the battle or having the fight on their home turf where the laws of physics are what they say they are. The TVA are dudes whose tech lets them control time and obliterate realities, they are not small potatoes in the slightest. )

 

[metaphysician]

Also, a reminder, "Supernatural kung fu training" is an entirely valid origin in a comic book setting. You *absolutely* can gain superpowers via training.

 

[Batmannerism]

Also, a reminder, "Supernatural kung fu training" is an entirely valid origin in a comic book setting. You *absolutely* can gain superpowers via training.

Measure the feats of bull**** wuxia ....sorry I mean
Supernatural Kung Fu training against the effects of the super soldier serum. Even the untrained, and surprisingly flabby looking Flag Smashers have better feats. Although Shang Chi clearly has testicle super healing powers, because getting a solid kick in the groin slows a man down- well, a real man anyway.

If Shang Chi's kung fu training allowed him to jump out of a plane, hit a bunch of trees and jog on - at at least 40 kph,- and punch a man across a room so hard that he dies on impact. Well that would put him in supersoldier Weight class.
But.....that doesn't happen.

Maybe if he was in Ta Lo had had ambiguous Ta Lo powers he could take on Walker, but otherwise....just no.


I distinguish bull**** wuxia from what we see in Iron Fist because that wasa very specific kind of training and there are quite defined limitations on its use.

Bull**** wuxia has a big following and I get that people love the intricate ballet of the fight scenes. Don't get me wrong I admire the athleticism and skill required to create these scenes. But for me most of them they hold zero weight as they're just bloodless kicking and punching until the plot requires someone to win or lose.

A distinct exception would be the film Reign of Assassins, because those fight scenes have a lot of weight.

 

[Docker2.0]

Loki wins. Next up:

Kurse

Vs the White Vision

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I can't elaborate further than flight and laser beam, still have no means to gauge the abilities of either one besides that.

FAKE VISION

 

[Batmannerism]

Loki wins. Next up:

Kurse

Vs the White Vision

Who you got peeps?!

I am going to disagree with my friend @Spider-Aziz and say Kurse 8/10.

Kurse is so durable that he can swat away Mjolnir and piercing attacks don't even slow him down. It's unclear how much damage Vision's lasers would do.

Also, in hand to hand Kurse can either generate heat or suck the life out of people by grabbing them which he did to dozens of Asgardian soldiers.

It says a lot about how much of a ***** he though Thor was, that he didn't bother to use this power and settled for beating him to a pulp ( and this is Thor who's stood up to an enraged Hulk).

If Vision gets into hand to hand range then Kurse might have the raw strength to harm him, and that heat attack may damage him even when he's phasing. If Vision tries to phase through Kurse, he may find him too dense, or able to withstand the density attack long enough to respond.

For me Kurse is one of the most underrated and dangerous MCU bad guys, and could probably give Thanos and Hela a decent fight.

 

[Luigi]

^ Can't disagree with that strong argument.

 

[Batgirl0202]

I am going to disagree with my friend @Spider-Aziz and say Kurse 8/10.

Kurse is so durable that he can swat away Mjolnir and piercing attacks don't even slow him down. It's unclear how much damage Vision's lasers would do.

Also, in hand to hand Kurse can either generate heat or suck the life out of people by grabbing them which he did to dozens of Asgardian soldiers.

It says a lot about how much of a ***** he though Thor was, that he didn't bother to use this power and settled for beating him to a pulp ( and this is Thor who's stood up to an enraged Hulk).

If Vision gets into hand to hand range then Kurse might have the raw strength to harm him, and that heat attack may damage him even when he's phasing. If Vision tries to phase through Kurse, he may find him too dense, or able to withstand the density attack long enough to respond.

For me Kurse is one of the most underrated and dangerous MCU bad guys, and could probably give Thanos and Hela a decent fight.

Nothing more to say

 

[metaphysician]

Kurse vs White Vision:

Yeah, this is a tough one because we have very little info about Kurse, but I lean in the direction of Kurse. White Vision seemed to be roughly the same power level as normal Vision, which places him as a peer of Thor. Kurse. . . kind of kicked the crap out of Thor. I suppose he could try doing phasing attacks on Kurse, but being outright stabbed by an Asgardian using an Asgardian weapon didn't do much to him, I'm iffy on whether any plausible phasing attack is likely to do more. I suppose Vision could just hang out at a distance raining down energy attacks while phasing through any thrown objects? But that feels more like a draw than anything else.

 

[Docker2.0]

Kurse wins. Next up:

NetflixCU Daredevil

vs MCU Kingpin

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Did they power Kingpin up further for the new material?

DAREDEVIL, can catch a brick because he's such a good lawyer.


I did not watch Hawkeye
*whistles and walks away*

 

[Docker2.0]

Did they power Kingpin up further for the new material?

DAREDEVIL, can catch a brick because he's such a good lawyer.

Clearly. He got hit by a car, got up and an arrow shot threw his chest and it didn't phase him. I don't know if he took the super soldier serum or what but he clearly is super human.

 

[Batmannerism]

Kurse wins. Next up:

NetflixCU Daredevil

vs MCU Kingpin

Who you got peeps?!

While he appears to be super

Clearly. He got hit by a car, got up and an arrow shot threw his chest and it didn't phase him. I don't know if he took the super soldier serum or what but he clearly is super human.

While he appears to be super tough he is also super slow and has zero hand to hand skills - he fights like Godzilla.

Super soldiers are tougher, stronger and much faster than regular humans - Kingpin can claim to be tougher and probably stronger but that's it.

He's also a complete moron - because the Hawkeye show writers are clearly idiots.

As such, all Daredevil has to do is use a little brain power and he'll win. I doubt he could do much harm just by hitting Fisk, but he could use anything in the environment to beat him.

This is not Hulk vs Batman in terms of brain v brains where brawn has such an overwhelming advantage that only very ****ty or very clever writing sees them win. It's not even Bucky against Coulson.

I'm going to say Daredevil, but only just - 6/10.

 

[metaphysician]

Daredevil vs Kingpin:

Unless the fight is taking place on the top of a skyscraper or right next to a power substation, Kingpin should take it basically every time. He was essentially invulnerable to Kate's attempts to attack him with martial arts, and while Matt is better he's not *that* much better, particular in damage capacity. Also of note, being rammed with a car was a momentary inconvenience, being shot with an arrow didn't even slow him down, and even trick arrows did barely any better. Ultimately, he was only taken down by having an entire quiver worth of trick arrow heads detonated all at once under his feet. . . and this didn't kill him or cripple him or even lastingly incapacitate him, it just took him out of action for a scene ( admittedly, he was very much limping and not able to fight anymore afterwards, but he did indeed limp away ). I'm pretty sure the same stack of arrowheads could have taken out an early generation Iron Man armor, so that's not really a mark against Fisk. Also, he's strong enough to do stuff like "casually yank the door off a presumably-armored SUV" as easy as a normal person would open an unlocked car door.

Basically, there are only three ways Matt would stand a chance here. First, if the arena has some kind of highly damaging environmental feature ( a ten story drop or electrical substation ) to direct Fisk into/over, Matt could do that. Second, *in theory* Fisk is still relatively soft and so could receive injuries to critical portions of anatomy like his eyes; however, I'm very dubious that this would be possible in practice, Fisk is not vastly skilled but he's still skilled enough to do things like "Hold up my relatively-invulnerable arm in front of my face". Third, if Matt were lucky enough that Fisk had already been exploded and was running on a single hit point, he could win just like Echo did.

But in a reasonable fight in a typical neutral environment? Fisk is gonna take it 9/10. He's just too bricky, and Matt is very much not.

 

[Batgirl0202]

While he appears to be super tough he is also super slow and has zero hand to hand skills - he fights like Godzilla.

Second, *in theory* Fisk is still relatively soft and so could receive injuries to critical portions of anatomy like his eyes; however, I'm very dubious that this would be possible in practice, Fisk is not vastly skilled but he's still skilled enough to do things like "Hold up my relatively-invulnerable arm in front of my face".

I'm basing my argument on these two ideas and casting my vote for Daredevil 7/10.

Going with Bat's argument, Kingpin pretty much only has brute strength going for him. As far as we've seen so far, his hand-to-hand combat skills are nil.

And as Meta said, Kingpin theoretically has vulnerable spots such as eyes, adam's apple, knee joints, and, erm, genitalia that are potential prime attack spots. Not that Matt would ever stoop so low but still...

A sharp dropkick to a knee should be able to take Kingy down, while a sharp billy club blow to the back of the head/base of the skull should theoretically finish him off.

I'll go with DD but only if he uses his superior combat skills and gets lucky.

 

[Batmannerism]

Daredevil vs Kingpin:

Unless the fight is taking place on the top of a skyscraper or right next to a power substation, Kingpin should take it basically every time. He was essentially invulnerable to Kate's attempts to attack him with martial arts, and while Matt is better he's not *that* much better, particular in damage capacity. Also of note, being rammed with a car was a momentary inconvenience, being shot with an arrow didn't even slow him down, and even trick arrows did barely any better. Ultimately, he was only taken down by having an entire quiver worth of trick arrow heads detonated all at once under his feet. . . and this didn't kill him or cripple him or even lastingly incapacitate him, it just took him out of action for a scene ( admittedly, he was very much limping and not able to fight anymore afterwards, but he did indeed limp away ). I'm pretty sure the same stack of arrowheads could have taken out an early generation Iron Man armor, so that's not really a mark against Fisk. Also, he's strong enough to do stuff like "casually yank the door off a presumably-armored SUV" as easy as a normal person would open an unlocked car door.

Basically, there are only three ways Matt would stand a chance here. First, if the arena has some kind of highly damaging environmental feature ( a ten story drop or electrical substation ) to direct Fisk into/over, Matt could do that. Second, *in theory* Fisk is still relatively soft and so could receive injuries to critical portions of anatomy like his eyes; however, I'm very dubious that this would be possible in practice, Fisk is not vastly skilled but he's still skilled enough to do things like "Hold up my relatively-invulnerable arm in front of my face". Third, if Matt were lucky enough that Fisk had already been exploded and was running on a single hit point, he could win just like Echo did.

But in a reasonable fight in a typical neutral environment? Fisk is gonna take it 9/10. He's just too bricky, and Matt is very much not.

While I have to agree with most of that, this version of the Kingpin is so inept in hand to hand combat that he couldn't put down Kate, despite an enormous strength and durability advantage.

He's so pathetic and ridiculous that I honestly believe that Matt could trick him into falling down an elevator shaft or open manhole or slipping on a banana peel and knocking himself out.

 

[Docker2.0]

Daredevil wins. Next up,
We welcome the two newest Marvels that just happen to start with M's:

Morbius

vs Moon Knight

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'll just imagine Moony lacing his darts with garlic and that somehow works against Morbius.

MOON KNIGHT