Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Catoti]

Savage Land makes thematic sense in an X-men movie. Mutants are about change/evolution and the Savage Land can be used for excellent contrast. I'd want Sinister involved like I said because I also think it would be a good opportunity to explain what Mutants/mutations are.

Sinister involved would definitely be awesome.

 

[Iceman]

Savage Land, Sinister and X-Men in the same film sounds glorious.

 

[BoredGuy]

I think we can all agree that this is how the X-men should be introduced in the MCU:

Spoiler

Art by Gabriel H. Walta posted on twitter.

I mean, it's a great scene
But maybe it would be best saved for a second film
Or even the end of the first, if the school is established during the film they could end it on this
like a cooler version of the "Avengers.... A-" moment from the end of Age of Ultron

 

[Mad Ones]

Yeah it would work at the very start or very end of a film.

 

[Darkprime]

Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart are already out, and audiences aren't exactly connecting wildly with what's left anymore anyway (see Dark Phoenix).

Logan takes place in 2029 lots of wiggle room there and its not exactly clear what Universe it takes place in. The only key information we have about this universe/timeline is that a bunch of mutants died the year prior. You could say it was an alternate timeline. Audiences didn't connect with Dark Phoenix because it was a bad movie. One thing Fox got right with the X-Men was the casting people love Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart. Even after movies like X-Men Origins and Dark Phoenix.

I imagine Stewart is being apprehensive about returning because he doesn't want to invalidate Logan but if Marvel can figure out a way to make it work perhaps through the multiverse I think it could happen. Look how many times Stewart said no to returning as Picard before they finally got a story that he liked and he said yes the same thing will happen here and if Stewart returns one last time that will likely open the door for Hugh Jackman as well.

 

[Bayne]

Logan takes place in 2029 lots of wiggle room there and its not exactly clear what Universe it takes place in. The only key information we have about this universe/timeline is that a bunch of mutants died the year prior. You could say it was an alternate timeline. Audiences didn't connect with Dark Phoenix because it was a bad movie. One thing Fox got right with the X-Men was the casting people love Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart. Even after movies like X-Men Origins and Dark Phoenix.

I imagine Stewart is being apprehensive about returning because he doesn't want to invalidate Logan but if Marvel can figure out a way to make it work perhaps through the multiverse I think it could happen. Look how many times Stewart said no to returning as Picard before they finally got a story that he liked and he said yes the same thing will happen here and if Stewart returns one last time that will likely open the door for Hugh Jackman as well.

Jackman and Stewart aren't out because Logan killed them off. They're out because they're out. They don't want to play the characters anymore. Jackman physically can't keep up the 'eternally young action hero' visuals anymore and he already did the Old Man Logan thing, so what's left for him to do, then? And Stewart is getting pretty close to hanging up his career as a whole. He might not be acting at all anymore by the time Marvel's X-men actually comes out, or perhaps only in smaller roles. There is no time left for him to turn down a bunch of different versions until Marvel comes up with one he likes. And there is no reason for Marvel to even try to get him back, anyway, because he won't be around long term regardless and they want and need their X-men to feel truly different from what Fox was doing.

Also, Dark Phoenix wasn't really any worse than Apocalypse, except maybe to a small extent from a comic book purist's perspective (murderous Nightcrawler and such - complaints the vast majority of the audience would never make because they only know the characters from these movies anyway). The general audience checked out because the universe was already officially dead, anyway, and nobody really cared about those characters (MacAvoy Xavier, Lawrence Mystique, etc) enough to show up for their finale.

 

[Marvel united]

I do think it should just be something that simply occurs in nature. I feel it shines a brighter light on the unwarranted hate from humanity (which isn't to say hatred is warranted at all). Aliens are from somewhere else and the earth-based heroes/villains can be viewed as outliers or freak occurrences. Cap/Hulk/Wanda/T'Challa/etc. got their powers from experiments and accidents and herbs. There's an attainability to it that makes it less frightening imo. "I could be BP if I ate that plant."

So I don't think those things decentralize humanity's place on Earth in the way mutants do, who basically show humans that they aren't the final chapter in this planet's story. Because now there are these people who displace us at the top of the food chain due to abilities our basic biologies prevent us from ever achieving.

And further elaborating on this, I hope the arrival of mutants will be the beginning of a much more cynical MCU. One where normal people are no longer just "grateful" for the existence of superheroes.

This happening in the world of the MCU with it's pre-established history is just what makes it so much more interesting. Since citizens have lived through this Silver age beginning of wonder & magnificence (The Avengers), people have now grown accustomed to superheroes as a daily part of life. The MCU seems to be moving in this direction post-Civil War

That's one of the things i really liked about the Ultimate line of comics. The posthuman and existential themes. This eerie sense that what it means to be human; what it means to be extraordinary, is being redefined. What does the existence of a group like the Ultimates/Avengers and people like Spider-Man, implicate for normal people? Mutants are quite literally the physical manifestation of those worries/questions, because they ARE the answer to that question.

Now suddenly, your best isn't good enough, because someone is better than you and a mutant is better than that person. It creates this dynamic of social Darwinism true to X-Men form. I could see this happening in the MCU as people are now asking these questions that they weren't asking in 2012 as a reaction to mutants

Mutant prejudice in the MCU should definitely be more multi-faceted and complex

 

[terry78]

The snap was a wake up call for the entire MCU, basically while Civil War had shades of it, now people are even more paranoid about people with powers and abilities.

 

[BoredGuy]

The Avengers have never been 100% trusted and beloved in the MCU, even after saving the world multiple times
That makes it so much easier to introduce hatred of mutants without that odd separation between the X-Men and all the other supers running around

 

[Fincher]

I'd rather the public fear superpowered beings in general than just fear the mutants, but really I'd think The Avengers saving half of everyone from a seemingly unstoppable alien force would make them more pro-superhumans and less inclined to believe that the government can protect them and keep everything under control.

 

[Mad Ones]

I think the Avengers should be seen as heroes by the general public while everyone is skeptical (at best) toward the X-men. It's important for the X-men to have that edge and that underdog status. The Avengers all have such unique, spectacular, and individualized origins that I don't see why mutants wouldn't be seen as a separate thing. "Anyone can be a mutant and they might replace humans some day" - I don't think the general public would see Avengers that way... they actually would probably love to become Avengers.

 

[HRPUFFSTUFF]

Cap, Iron Man, and Thor are all exceptions to the rule. Cap was made to fight for the USA with his whole life in the history books, Tony put on a suit of armor and has hid nothing about who he is, and Thor is from another world so as far as anyone knows hes the only one. Mutants on the other hand are just people that one day woke up and has powers there is no rime or reason for it. That would put fear in a lot of people kinda like that red scare or terrorism, could be anyone; friend, neighbor, or even family member.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'd rather the public fear superpowered beings in general than just fear the mutants, but really I'd think The Avengers saving half of everyone from a seemingly unstoppable alien force would make them more pro-superhumans and less inclined to believe that the government can protect them and keep everything under control.

Maybe they can make the half of humanity that were spared in the snap more cynical and less trusting of superhumans, because they've lived through those 5 years where everything was dire. The half that disappeared and then were brought back could have a more optimistic outlook because for them, no time passed between when they died and when they reappeared. So they could be less cynical.

That could explain why some humans are more suspicious of mutants and superheroes, while many others aren't.

 

[Bayne]

The well-known Avengers being above suspicion (in a certain context at least) is fine. The problem the movies need to avoid that the comics always fell back on is in relation to all the less well known people. Nobody knows that Daredevil isn't a mutant. Or Moon Knight. Or Ms. Marvel. Etc, etc.

If the world is actually full on anti-mutant bigotry 24-7, then all those lesser known figures should be getting anti-mutant hate on equal footing with actual mutants.

 

[Marvel united]

The well-known Avengers being above suspicion (in a certain context at least) is fine. The problem the movies need to avoid that the comics always fell back on is in relation to all the less well known people. Nobody knows that Daredevil isn't a mutant. Or Moon Knight. Or Ms. Marvel. Etc, etc.

If the world is actually full on anti-mutant bigotry 24-7, then all those lesser known figures should be getting anti-mutant hate on equal footing with actual mutants.

That's why anti-mutant bigotry in the MCU should be less caricaturized & more nuanced like some of the more modern comics tried to do (i.e New X-Men, X-Men: Legacy, X-Men: Red etc). In the context of the MCU, it inevitably has to be more complicated than just "Die, muties!"

The reality is, everybody is gonna have a different perspective on mutants. Maybe some people like mutants and stand by their cause. Maybe some people only like "good mutants" or mutants who seemingly contribute to society, but have a problem living with one in close proximity or a family member dating one. Some people will be jealous of mutants, want to be them- and think it's unfair that they have these abilities that they don't (John Sublime). Maybe some people have a problem with mutants for religious reasons. And of course, some people will hate mutants no matter what, and for no reason other than the fact that they are different.

Everybody would have a different viewpoint on mutants and how to deal/interact with them. You could also have mutant activist groups and mutant celebrities who by virtue of having a higher platform, don't have to deal with some of the ground level discrimination that Non-celebrity mutants do, although they could have their own challenges in the business & entertainment industry. (Warren Worthington, Alison Blaire).

It could make for a very fresh take on the material but also make more sense in the MCU for things to be less black & white and more grey

 

[Mad Ones]

Morrison tried to do some of that nuancing work. He established Mutant Town in Manhattan and created cultural icons like Jumbo Carnation (who was murdered in a hate crime). He also wrote the U-Men and the fetishization of mutants, which is a whole different kind of bigotry than what the X-men usually deal with. That nuance comes and goes in the comics and even Morrison was clunky sometimes.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Just a random thought, but I wouldn't be mad if Marvel tried to snatch Ella Jay Basco up to be Jubilee.

 

[Herofan]

That's one of the things i really liked about the Ultimate line of comics. The posthuman and existential themes. This eerie sense that what it means to be human; what it means to be extraordinary, is being redefined. What does the existence of a group like the Ultimates/Avengers and people like Spider-Man, implicate for normal people? Mutants are quite literally the physical manifestation of those worries/questions, because they ARE the answer to that question.

Now suddenly, your best isn't good enough, because someone is better than you and a mutant is better than that person. It creates this dynamic of social Darwinism true to X-Men form.

Isn't that, emphasizing how Mutants genuinely are different from and competing against humans, pretty at odds with trying to do direct commentary about real social groups and issues, at least a big complication to it?

More so, or more generally, unlike real minority social groups, Mutants can be and in some amount actually are genuine threats, dangerous to both individuals and society, and so it would be pretty awkward to try to have a lot of direct real-world commentary and also have Mutant villains, portray some of the Mutants/minority group members as being violent militants.

 

[TheVileOne]

Just a random thought, but I wouldn't be mad if Marvel tried to snatch Ella Jay Basco up to be Jubilee.

I would. She was not good at all in Birds of Prey.

 

[Marvel united]

Isn't that, emphasizing how Mutants genuinely are different from and competing against humans, pretty at odds with trying to do direct commentary about real social groups and issues, at least a big complication to it?

More so, or more generally, unlike real minority social groups, Mutants can be and in some amount actually are genuine threats, dangerous to both individuals and society, and so it would be pretty awkward to try to have a lot of direct real-world commentary and also have Mutant villains, portray some of the Mutants/minority group members as being violent militants.

It's just something that happens as mutants become a part of everyday society.

Mutants should be a multi-layered box that the MCU can unravel in layers as we see how they affect different levels of society, in different spaces. It doesn't have to be 100% one thing i.e "Mutants are humanity's successor" backdrop.

There will be mutant villains simply because like any race of people, all mutants are not a monolithic hive mind. The majority of mutants could just want to live peacefully as civilians. But inevitably, there will be those that won't and they are the ones the X-Men are trying to stop.


Take with a big grain of salt, but Mikey Sutton is back with another scoop

 

[Mad Ones]

Anyone willing to recap the video? I'm at work haha. I'm not buying any leaks or scoops but they are fun to discuss haha.

 

[Marvel united]

Anyone willing to recap the video? I'm at work haha. I'm not buying any leaks or scoops but they are fun to discuss haha.

He says that Rogue will be introduced as an antagonist and Marvel want to introduce her in Captain Marvel 2 or 3.

Also, that the Brotherhood will not be led by Magneto and Marvel wants to hold off on him.

 

[Dark Raven]

He says that Rogue will be introduced as an antagonist and Marvel want to introduce her in Captain Marvel 2 or 3.

Also, that the Brotherhood will not be led by Magneto and Marvel wants to hold off on him.

I hope they hold off on Mystique as well.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Take with a big grain of salt, but Mikey Sutton is back with another scoop

As much as would like this to be true, it's too on the nose and seems like everyone and their mother has a scoop on youtube about anything Marvel and the MCU. Has anything "Everything Always" youtube user said come to fruition? It seems like every other day, dude's got an MCU scoop.

 

[Iceman]

He says that Rogue will be introduced as an antagonist and Marvel want to introduce her in Captain Marvel 2 or 3.

Also, that the Brotherhood will not be led by Magneto and Marvel wants to hold off on him.

Rogue introed in CM would be great IMO. As would holding Magneto back for a while (although talk of him would be welcome) to build him up for a massive return.

 

[psylockolussus]

I prefer Rogue to be introduced in a X-Men movie. For ips like Black Panther, Dr. Strange and Capt. Marvel, I prefer if they introduce characters that aren't a character of someone/something else (like X-Men for eXample). Similar to how I don't want gotg to continue to be featuring F4 villains/characters because gotg's rogues gallery is lacking or obscure. If I want to see the X-Men like the big and eXsential characters, I'd prefer to anticipate them in their own movie. Like save the crossovers in an Avengers movie or something else. Rogue isn't a Capt. Marvel character.