Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[def28]

I think they'll have an event happen that effects adults, kids and teens. Rather that be the merging of multiverses or a blip like situation that activates the mutant gene, I have no idea.

Yeah, Prof X has to be an adult. There's just no way around that and if he's an adult mutant then that means it will have to be across the board on the ages one way or another.

 

[Protar]

I think they'll have an event happen that effects adults, kids and teens. Rather that be the merging of multiverses or a blip like situation that activates the mutant gene, I have no idea.

Yeah, Prof X has to be an adult. There's just no way around that and if he's an adult mutant then that means it will have to be across the board on the ages one way or another.

You can have the odd older mutant like Xavier but if you have too many it causes continuity issues with the MCU. Xavier being older doesn't mean you can have mutants of different ages across the board imo. I think radiation from the snaps is the neatest way to explain a population boom in mutants. Basically taking the comic book origin for mutation but swapping nuclear radiation for infinity stone radiation. That way you can have rare mutants like Xavier and Logan, plus ancient mutants like Apocalypse whose x-genes activated naturally. Then a handful whose X-genes activated in 2018 with the first snap, and then the majority whose gene start activating after the double snap in Endgame. That allows for a little variation in ages without causing any continuity issues because we know little enough about the five year time gap that feasibly some mutants could have been active during that time.

I don't like the idea of mutation being something that adults undergo - there's a coming of age metaphor to mutation which works best when it happens to kids/teens. I Also think it's important that mutants appearing isn't just a one time event like say, mutants migrating in from the multiverse. There has to be this situation where every year new people are getting mutant powers and not just the kids of other mutants. That context where the mutants are a steadily growing population and anyone could be one is important for the mutantphobia angle.

 

[def28]

There's so many ways here haha. So many allegories and metaphors too. The MCU has existed for awhile, there's gonna have to be changes at some point with things. I would rather we get the characters we love instead of being picky on the age thing. I only have an issue with it when it is limiting what stories, the world and who can show up.

Personally, I'm fine if they have late bloomer mutants due to something activating their gene at the start of this. It's normal for certain people in their 20s or even 40s to discover and accept who they are later in life. It's a different metaphor but nothing wrong with that imo. It was still a part of them. If they made Wanda a mutant I wouldn't complain, I'm actually hoping they do.

 

[psylockolussus]

I always thought the most effective way to introduce the X-Men is through the eyes of a new supporting character who is just learning their powers, is on the run or in trouble because of being a mutant. TAS and X-Men 1 both did this with Jubilee and Rogue. Which was pretty much the Kitty Pryde role in the comics. It checks all the boxes to set things up.

I'd pick Jubilee with the Spice X-Girls saving her at the mall.

 

[PsylockeBlackWidow]

Although I am glad the Marvel rights under one roof, I actually am glad in that period of time before the Disney Fox merger, the X-Men rights were not under MCU, because after hearing that Deadpool will be the only R-Rated property in the MCU, suggesting Blade will be PG-13, makes me happy Marvel Studios did not have the rights because if they had the rights, then Deadpool would have been PG-13, and so would have Logan.

 

[Marvel united]

See when people tell you "make it make sense" (which sounds so condescending when you post those four words as if we know so little). You zip your mouth and post an unfunny meme, is that pic even a meme?

Also nothing about your suggestions imo are controversial. Your suggestions aren't being picked up by sites outside of this forum. I just don't agree with them.

Well, it is a little bit frustrating to have people constantly creating strawman arguments and misconstrusions of my posts. It seems like some can't have this discussion honestly without distorting the subject in some way.

There's so many ways here haha. So many allegories and metaphors too. The MCU has existed for awhile, there's gonna have to be changes at some point with things. I would rather we get the characters we love instead of being picky on the age thing. I only have an issue with it when it is limiting what stories, the world and who can show up.

Personally, I'm fine if they have late bloomer mutants due to something activating their gene at the start of this. It's normal for certain people in their 20s or even 40s to discover and accept who they are later in life. It's a different metaphor but nothing wrong with that imo. It was still a part of them. If they made Wanda a mutant I wouldn't complain, I'm actually hoping they do.

There's only one problem with axing the Puberty anagram... If you get rid of it, you're also getting rid of and/or rewriting hundreds of backstories, for various mutants, who are all tied to this idea that the X-Gene = Puberty.

A character like Cyclops is going to require a significant rewritten. He's no longer an orphan, or, this is no longer relevant to his story because Xavier is no longer his father, the X-Men are no longer Scott's nu family surrogate, not in the same way at least. There is no "First Class". All of these elements are going to have be reimagined, and it's gonna be a very different story. And this is just one example among hundreds, who are tied to this theme.

You want these characters, but at the same time, you're changing the text and core themes of their mythology that is already deeply woven into the text of their characters. And for what? So Cyclops can be introduced as a 38 year old dude? Is he even the same character at that point?

 

[WatchProtect]

Which X-Men could actually support a film or D+ show? Off the top I'm thinking Gambit, Wolverine, Storm, Cable, maybe Colossus? Definitely a few teams XCalibur, X-Factor, X-Force, New Mutants. But what other solo characters?

 

[def28]

I would love to see a show on Emma.

 

[WatchProtect]

I would love to see a show on Emma.

Maybe as a member of the Hellfire Club? Or after she becomes an X-Man?

 

[def28]

Yeah, I think it would be interesting to see her time prior and during the Hellfire club. And then moving into her transition that's more on the teacher/hero side. I liked the way the WATX portrayed her and parts of the Anime. She's pretty complicated, but it requires a good amount of time to do all that right.

Would love to see X-Force but I don't think Disney + will go the R route yet. New Mutants is perfect for that I think.

I'm up for anything Storm as well.

 

[Frankeh]

I always thought the most effective way to introduce the X-Men is through the eyes of a new supporting character who is just learning their powers, is on the run or in trouble because of being a mutant. TAS and X-Men 1 both did this with Jubilee and Rogue. Which was pretty much the Kitty Pryde role in the comics. It checks all the boxes to set things up.

I've rarely heard the complaint that it was wrong to introduce the others as adults. In fact that was always a preference with many characters because that is when they are the characters who are represented the most. Flashbacks to certain times in a characters past or just discussion usually took care of any required issues for storyline or development. Guess I'm kinda confused on what specific storyline would be missed here. Wasn't Jean like 10 and not a teen anyways when she got her powers? And Scott's past used as a flashback in the comics?

The best way for Marvel to handle the development imo is to build other characters in other properties prior to X-Men. And give other's full on properties. For example Rogue in Captain Marvel and Storm either in a solo or a Wankanda spin off. But even then I don't think it would be nonsense for them to show up with powers. Or that this should happen with every single character as a teenager. There's only so many times you can do with that discovering teen story. There's so many methods in film to fully develop without having a perfect linear path. Doesn't mean the core development of a character has to be missed by any means. I've seen it work without it.

You hit the nail on the head there. I really have nothing to add.

 

[Another_Fool]

I'd pick Jubilee with the Spice X-Girls saving her at the mall.

Off-topic but is that Momoland in your avatar?

 

[Marvel united]

I always thought the most effective way to introduce the X-Men is through the eyes of a new supporting character who is just learning their powers, is on the run or in trouble because of being a mutant. TAS and X-Men 1 both did this with Jubilee and Rogue. Which was pretty much the Kitty Pryde role in the comics. It checks all the boxes to set things up.

Why should only one character get a formative arc, tho? Jubilee and/or Kitty isn't the only newly activated mutant in the world, and they're not the only ones figuring out their powers. Thats literally the entire point of having a school for them to go to.

I've rarely heard the complaint that it was wrong to introduce the others as adults. In fact that was always a preference with many characters because that is when they are the characters who are represented the most.

Well, of course it is. Thats the definitive version of these characters. But you aren't writing a single issue in the latest X-Men comic series with the definitive versions of these characters, you're writing a screenplay for the first film of a franchise that is going to span the next decade and a half. The optics are completely different

Flashbacks to certain times in a characters past or just discussion usually took care of any required issues for storyline or development.

Flashbacks and exposition are not a substitute for character development. A lot of writers have learned this lesson the hard way. That's why in any (practical) screenwriting course, you are specifically told that this is how not to write a screenplay.

Guess I'm kinda confused on what specific storyline would be missed here. Wasn't Jean like 10 and not a teen anyways when she got her powers? And Scott's past used as a flashback in the comics?

There was a point in the comics when Scott's past as it is today, was not the past. Which is the point

And Jean is definitely a character who benefits from not having completely mastered her abilities at the start of her story. The strugge for control is always going to be a central theme of her character-- whether that's the Phoenix or her own telepathy

The best way for Marvel to handle the development imo is to build other characters in other properties prior to X-Men. And give other's full on properties. For example Rogue in Captain Marvel and Storm either in a solo or a Wankanda spin off. But even then I don't think it would be nonsense for them to show up with powers. Or that this should happen with every single character as a teenager. There's only so many times you can do with that discovering teen story. There's so many methods in film to fully develop without having a perfect linear path. Doesn't mean the core development of a character has to be missed by any means. I've seen it work without it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly here. But this sort of runs contrary to your other point. Linearity is a straight foward line. So if Rogue and Storm are not X-Men when they introduced (in non XM films), then they are being developed linearly, because Rogue & Storm did not start as X-Men. At least not in the same way as the O5

And Scott doesn't need to be a teen to be developed. That's really the gist of it.

Tony Stark can be developed past the cave, but if the intent is to have an arc, and a journey for us to invest in, then his story is naturally going to start from its formative stages... Aka, the cave. This is just basic structure.

It's not about Scott being a teen, it's about telling a complete story. I'm not sure why this isn't being understood

 

[def28]

It doesn't matter to me if everyone is set up the same or not. Or some are linear and some aren't. That was my point, that there are different ways to tell these stories that still can fully encompass who these characters are. Including having the OG join as teens. I have my issues with that, as previously mentioned. But that's just my pov. Marvel is really good at this so, whatever they do they have my confidence.

Your argument is that there is only one way. Your way, or else it's a disservice to the characters and not a complete story. Which I disagree with. TAS and X1 introduced us differently then your way. And it worked more than fine as an introduction.

With the MCU, this all depends on so many up in the air possibilities. We don't know if the school will be built, if it's been there in hiding, if multiverse chaos happens etc

So yeah, people are gonna have different opinions. And given the poor reception of the last films, most probably won't want to see a very young version of the new 5 outside of flashbacks, Disney + or set up scenes. Not as the main cast of X-Men films for 10 more years. They'll want someone who can go head to head with Cap in the leader dept sooner than later.

So to each their own. All I know is that Jamie Fox is showing up as Electro in Spider-Man 3 haha. I wouldn't cut out possibilities, cause they are going all in on some crazy storytelling and open to quite a bit as seen in WandaVision.

 

[Protar]

I don't get why the last few Fox films have soured people on a teenage cast. The prequel series takes place mostly from the POV of Xavier (and Logan in DoFP). i.e adults not the students. The team aren't even teens in Dark Phoenix due to the decade hopping between each film. The actors are in their mid-twenties to early thirties.

Whatever else you might think of it a team actually consisting of teenagers aged like 15-19 would be a brand new take we've not seen before.

 

[psylockolussus]

Off-topic but is that Momoland in your avatar?

Who else would it be?

a team actually consisting of teenagers aged like 15-19 would be a brand new take we've not seen before.

I've seen it before. X-Men Apocalypse,X-Men First Class, The New Mutants.

 

[Protar]

I've seen it before. X-Men Apocalypse,X-Men First Class, The New Mutants.

Xavier is the pov in First Class and Apocalypse not the students. New Mutants sure, haven't seen it so I can't really comment but from what I've seen it's not really even an X-men film.

If they actually cast 15-19 year olds (rather than actors in their early twenties) and actually focused on life at Xavier's school from the pov of the students, that'd be a fresh take. Over the past twenty years we've had far more focus on adult X-men than teenage ones.

 

[Marvel united]

It doesn't matter to me if everyone is set up the same or not. Or some are linear and some aren't. That was my point, that there are different ways to tell these stories that still can fully encompass who these characters are. Including having the OG join as teens. I have my issues with that, as previously mentioned. But that's just my pov. Marvel is really good at this so, whatever they do they have my confidence.

Your argument is that there is only one way. Your way, or else it's a disservice to the characters and not a complete story. Which I disagree with. TAS and X1 introduced us differently then your way. And it worked more than fine as an introduction.

TAS was not structured like a film tho. It's episodic nature, lack of character development, reliance on exposition/flashbacks is why it's essentially a Saturday morning recap of all the X-Men's greatest hits (stories), with the most popular version of the team at that time aka Jim Lee.

Here's the thing about X1, and the OT, it's not about the X-Men. The characters who are "figuring things out", are, surprise, surprise, the protagonists/leads of the story.

I think maybe the confusion here is coming from a difference of opinion in who should be the lead(s). Because this informs everything about how a character is developed (in most instances).

With the MCU, this all depends on so many up in the air possibilities. We don't know if the school will be built, if it's been there in hiding, if multiverse chaos happens etc

Very true.

yeah, people are gonna have different opinions. And given the poor reception of the last films, most probably won't want to see a very young version of the new 5 outside of flashbacks, Disney + or set up scenes. Not as the main cast of X-Men films for 10 more years. They'll want someone who can go head to head with Cap in the leader dept sooner than later.

The poor reception of the past films had nothing to do with the ages of the characters, and everything to do with the writing, and poor direction. If anything, those films rushed the X-Men out of their youth multiple times (Dark Phoenix starred a seasoned, adult team. The X-Men were all 25-29 in that film, and the actors weren't much younger. I think they were even teachers again)-- And again, the films aren't about the X-Men. Cyclops is a supporting character in X-Men: Apocalypse, just as he was in the OT. His age didn't make a difference because the story wasn't about him

And there was a point in the comics when Cyclops was a kid to Captain America, just as Spider-Man was:



The X-Men and the Avengers don't need to be peers to crossover

So to each their own. All I know is that Jamie Fox is showing up as Electro in Spider-Man 3 haha. I wouldn't cut out possibilities, cause they are going all in on some crazy storytelling and open to quite a bit as seen in WandaVision.

Fair enough, I guess we'll see what happens.

These characters are gonna be in the MCU for a loooong time, so they can afford to take their time with them in a way Fox was (literally) unwilling to.

 

[SumT]

It doesnt matter if the prequels "jumped" decades each movie:
the X-Men still looked like teens in the publics eyes, in the trailers, posters, spots and all.

And not only that, Id bet so many viewers had no idea the movie was set 10 years later lol. So that "argument" is irrelevant, no offense. An image is bigger than words (the director interviews)

 

[Marvel united]

Okay, okay, hear me out...
Reverend Stryker

 

[psylockolussus]

No to Stryker again.

 

[Another_Fool]

Who else would it be?

Good answer.

For a hot second, I thought it was Twice but when I looked at it again I thought they resembled Momoland. I've been on a major K-pop kick the last three months.

 

[psylockolussus]

Good answer.

For a hot second, I thought it was Twice but when I looked at it again I thought they resembled Momoland. I've been on a major K-pop kick the last three months.

Actually Twice Girls and Momoland are my top two favorite kpop acts right now and I just discovered them last June. I felt like living in a rock because they are so popular in my country and even visited my country a couple of times.

Anyway your reply made me smile. I'm not new to kpop and but like you, I only listened to kpop hardcore last June. I listened to other kpop girl groups as well but those two are the only kpop artists that I would say that I really love.

 

[EnDz0n3]

But none of this cancels out anything that was stated. It was still a flaw in the writing, hence why it was corrected.

Do you not get the concept of superheroes hiding their identities? Superheroes living double lives? Telling the public one thing but being something else entirely? That's Superhero 101.

The movies can still work up to being an actual school with a big student body. Nothing's stopping them from doing that. Eventually.

On top of that, if you are really going to complain about how Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters should be a school, are you also going to complain that the X-men should just have men as members? See how ridiculous that sounds?

...Are not a substitute for the X-Men's own development.

The X-men are not the New Mutants...

 

[Silvermoth]

Okay, okay, hear me out...
View attachment 43433 Reverend Stryker

meh, magneto yes but not Stryker. If they do the reverend it should be Luce Rains