Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Iceman]

Member of Alpha Flight, doing missions for Fury, lone wolf etc.

It just sounds awesome! The possibilities are crazy with him in the MCU finally.

 

[AResistor]

With the next phase in Marvel it is likely (could be wrong) going to be mixing and matching characters.

Thor Ragnarok: Thor and Hulk
Ant Man and The Wasp
Spider-Man Homecoming: Spider-Man and Iron Man
Dr. Strange: Dr. Strange and Thor

I really see that trend continuing and pulling more characters in that way. Helps to shake things up.

 

[Iceman]

Well, I personally wouldn't want him in a bunch of X-Men films - or at least to the degree that Fox did it.

Hugh Jackman was awesome. But the X-Men films kinda neutered him. It wasn't until his last two solo films that he was allowed to effectively be Wolverine again since his first film. Second film was good to - but that's where (ironically) the "Disnification" of his character began. The less shown, the more powerful his characterization is in these regards. He and Punisher are best at being foil characters since they are or should be stark contrasts.

Basically less "father figure" Wolverine and more --

Fox just totally overexposed him. For me he is both a great general MCU character and a great X-Man. I want to see him in about half of the X-Men team films, and I am really hoping X-Men films become a permanent thing. It suits him regularly going AWOL from the team and then coming back with a bang. As a long time X-comics fan, I need him to have a significant presence within the team eventually (his relationships to various characters will be important), but as a Marvel comics fan, I also need him to be free doing his own thing and causing chaos all over the place with other MCU characters.

 

[AResistor]

I think Feige has the Midas touch for now and his bosses surely know that after 20 plus films worth of totally unprecedented success including a silly number of billion dollar films, most likely 2 $2B dollar films within a few months, and big hits even from properties like GotG. He will be very hard to replace and if I was his boss I would just let him do his thing while he's setting box office records and way outperforming his mandate. I know (good) bosses have done that in jobs where I've worked. Once you prove yourself to a certain degree they let you do your thing a little more and focus their directional energies in areas where more monitoring is required. Now as soon as things start receding then he will be under the microscope again. But who knows, maybe Feige wants Wolverine to take centre stage from the off - if we knew what he does we would probably be in a much better position right now.

I never said he’d be fired. I said he’d be given instructions.

Also sidenote: they already are. No production company head has 100% control.

Film development process:

Idea is reached, production company finds idea and studio green lights or not and has guidelines

Script is written, production company hires writer and gives notes and studio gives development notes to be met

Film is shot: production company shepherds film through production and gives notes on how to edit and studio gives development notes on how to edit

Film is screened: production company and studio gives notes on how to proceed from reactions, studio may or may not sign off on reshoots if needed

Studio finishes a film when its needs are met, not the company

Film marketed: production company largely takes a back seat as studio heads up marketing

This is how it’s always done and how it always will be done. The current fight probably - Feige wants End Game to be three hours, studio wants it to be less for more screenings. One is creative, the other is a banker.

Btw, production heads hate studio heads and there are typically behind the scenes fights.

 

[Iceman]

With the next phase in Marvel it is likely (could be wrong) going to be mixing and matching characters.

Thor Ragnarok: Thor and Hulk
Ant Man and The Wasp
Spider-Man Homecoming: Spider-Man and Iron Man
Dr. Strange: Dr. Strange and Thor

I really see that trend continuing and pulling more characters in that way. Helps to shake things up.

Yeah, I see more small crossovers outside of the big team up films. I would like to see the other X-Men make appearances in the MCU outside of X-films too.

 

[Marvel united]

I definitely want to see a rotating roster like the comics. Beast could sit out 1 and appear in 2. Forge could be in the background in X1 and be given a main role in X2 if Marvel wants to take elements from Fall of mutants

 

[metaphysician]

So, in the past I've stated my opinion that Jean Grey is a flat, lifeless character, and they really should cut her out if possible. Today, I saw this video by Movie Bob.



Amusingly, it has done two things. First, I now "get" Jean Grey in a way I never did before. She makes sense, and I can see how you can work with this to portray her as a character with depth and personality and purpose. Second? Holy ****, you can never ever do a straight, faithful retelling of the Phoenix Saga. Its a story whose underlying subtext is "Women embracing sexuality are dangerous and have to be killed".

So, now I simultaneously dread them doing another version of Jean Grey, and yet would really like to see them thread the needle and try to do a version that keeps the social-sexual subtext and themes while reworking them into something not raging problematic.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Where morality is concerned, I view Magneto as a less insane and bloodthirsty version of (MCU) Killmonger. I know he’s done some really unforgivable **** in the comics, but overall, I picture him as someone who’s more concerned about helping mutants (through whatever means necessary) than wiping out humanity. He isn’t above taking drastic, seriously illegal action, but if normal humans stood out of his way and let him do what he wanted, he wouldn’t worry about them.

killmonger wasn't insane, and definitely was not Hitler lol

 

[AResistor]

killmonger wasn't insane, and definitely was not Hitler lol

He wanted to kill entire populations out of revenge.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

He wanted to kill entire populations out of revenge.

Still doesn't quite makes him Hitler. I would argue he was more of a modern Nat Turner.

 

[AResistor]

Still doesn't quite makes him Hitler. I would argue he was more of a modern Nat Turner.

Eh - doesn't seem like a revolt though (had to google).

Using advanced weaponry and an advanced group of warriors to attack a single population basically means wiping at least millions out.

Plus, what would he do after he killed millions of people? Would he let them live free lives or would he seek to become a dictator?

Personally, I don't think Killmonger had a set end - just to go as far as he can while consumed by revenge.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Eh - doesn't seem like a revolt though (had to google).

Using advanced weaponry and an advanced group of warriors to attack a single population basically means wiping at least millions out.

Plus, what would he do after he killed millions of people? Would he let them live free lives or would he seek to become a dictator?

Personally, I don't think Killmonger had a set end - just to go as far as he can while consumed by revenge.

Eh, this is the MCU. That wouldn't have succeeded even without BP intervention. He doesn't have the equivalent of Hitler's wehrmacht.

 

[AResistor]

Eh, this is the MCU. That wouldn't have succeeded even without BP intervention. He doesn't have the equivalent of Hitler's wehrmacht.

But, if not held back by a PG-13 rating or being confined to being a film.

What would Killmonger have realistically done and how far would he have gone?

(also in the above imagine if there was no mutant or powered person to stop him)

I don't see him as the type who would suddenly stop lashing out.

 

[blackdragon6]

Tbh & frank, Killmonger is basically a pastiche of a lot of black radicals, mixed in with a lot of hotep revenge fantasy.

 

[Mad Ones]

So, in the past I've stated my opinion that Jean Grey is a flat, lifeless character, and they really should cut her out if possible. Today, I saw this video by Movie Bob.



Amusingly, it has done two things. First, I now "get" Jean Grey in a way I never did before. She makes sense, and I can see how you can work with this to portray her as a character with depth and personality and purpose. Second? Holy ****, you can never ever do a straight, faithful retelling of the Phoenix Saga. Its a story whose underlying subtext is "Women embracing sexuality are dangerous and have to be killed".

So, now I simultaneously dread them doing another version of Jean Grey, and yet would really like to see them thread the needle and try to do a version that keeps the social-sexual subtext and themes while reworking them into something not raging problematic.

I'm not watching that video, but the message behind The Dark Phoenix Saga is don't try to control women. Jean never "embraces" her sexuality because she doesn't consent to any of it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

From Claremont himself:

"Well, it was a sexual thrill. It was the ultimate. To use a somewhat gross term, it was the quest for the cosmic orgasm. Her feeding...on the star, was an act of love, of self-love, of *********ion probably. She was on an extreme emotional high, and what happened towards the end - well, what Xavier did was reassert the control of her conscious mind, of her intellectual self over her emotional self."

 

[Boy Scout]

killmonger wasn't insane, and definitely was not Hitler lol

What sane person actively goes out of his way to cause mass genocide?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

And then marks his skin with every kill lol. He was most definitely a psycho.

 

[metaphysician]

He wanted to kill entire populations out of revenge.

Also, he openly admitted to wanting to conquer the world, while also openly being motivated by hatred. That is not a combination which ends in peace and happiness, or even a bog standard functional dictatorship.

 

[Detective Conan]

View attachment 20559

Great actor. Young enough to play the role for 20 years and he's the right height.

No! I want him as Batman!

I hope when they cast MCU Wolverine they get an actor who’s within in the range of 5’ft. He doesn’t have to be super-short like 5’3 or something(in the Ultimate comics continuity he’s actually 5’9) but I want an actor who’s not too distractingly big— height wise but a little shorter than most superheroes so I’d like him to be at least 5’5 or 5’6 tall. I like that Wolverine is a tough grizzled tough guy but he’s on the short side so he doesn’t look too intimidating which causes people to underestimate him.

He acts big, but he’s actually smalI. I actually think his height could play a role in his interactions with other characters. People would always use his shortness to make fun of him and that would be a way to really get under his skin.

 

[Mad Ones]

From Claremont himself:

That's not the only point of the Dark Phoenix Saga, though. She ate that sun after being violated by Mastermind.

 

[Iceman]

[QUOTE="Detective Conan, post: 37367459, member: 167377"]

I hope when they cast MCU Wolverine they get an actor who’s within in the range of 5’ft. He doesn’t have to be super-short like 5’3 or something(in the Ultimate comics continuity he’s actually 5’9) but I want an actor who’s not too distractingly big— height wise but a little shorter than most superheroes so I’d like him to be at least 5’5 or 5’6 tall. I like that Wolverine is a tough grizzled tough guy but he’s on the short side so he doesn’t look too intimidating which causes people to underestimate him.

He acts big, but he’s actually smalI. I actually think his height could play a role in his interactions with other characters. People would always use his shortness to make fun of him and that would be a way to really get under his skin.[/QUOTE]

I would prefer him to be at least below average height at the tallest this time around.
​

 

[Madam-Shogun]

What sane person actively goes out of his way to cause mass genocide?

An irrationally angry one. Woobie destroyer of worlds and all that jazz.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Tbh & frank, Killmonger is basically a pastiche of a lot of black radicals, mixed in with a lot of hotep revenge fantasy.

Yeah, I can see that too. Hit all the political talking points that I hear from the black left. Even some **** I said lol.

 

[metaphysician]

An irrationally angry one. Woobie destroyer of worlds and all that jazz.

Or a person who is convinced by bad(?) data or bad(?) logic that it is the proper choice. Just look at Thanos. I feel like "insane" in this context is being thrown around inappropriately, on the assumption that only by being unhinged from reality could someone ever contemplate genocide. That is one of those "I don't want to acknowledge the possibility of evil, so I will pretend it doesn't exist" presumptions.

Also, while Dark Phoenix actually *is* a case of someone who is insane ( her actions are legitimately discordant with her motives and personality or even her goals ), that makes the case even worse vis a vis "Jean Grey must die". Yes, the whole affair with the Hellfire Club was allegorically a case of sexual abuse. . . but its not the Hellfire Club that everyone ultimately agreed had to die. "Woman has a sexual awakening, gets abused by exploitative older parties, goes crazy, and then has to be put down because she's dangerous". . . is not a good look.