Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[DJD1983]

Or the ones who died in space were skrulls and never the real mccoys to begin with! What a tweest!

Aw **** there goes the neighborhood

Oh oh what we are reading / for some time

ALL SOME TYPE OF FAKE DREAM

Suck it M. Night

 

[Mad Ones]

No I'm not ignoring anything and understand the 'resurrection' was just a roundabout version of cloning.

Seriously, the new bodies are grown by the 5 using DNA samples Sinister keeps on every mutant, and the minds transferred to the 'husks' by Xavier from copies of the originals he continuously makes via Cerebro. Same basic principle as the 6th Day Arnie movie, or Spider-man's Ben Riley.

Now they are 100% perfect copies, but they are still copies. The original people died in space and nothing about the process used to clone them suggests thier souls (which isn't an unknown in the books) could have joined these duplicates, rather than passed on to whatever afterlife before the things were grown.

So my knowing all that does make it harder for me to feel quite the same about the characters brought back with this method.

Much like Ben Riley (or Gwen and all the other clones in Spidey) are never the same as the original to me.

Btw, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a twist or several to come from the whole resurrection thing. Might take them a while to play it out though.

The comic says their essences are put into perfect replica bodies, which is exactly a ressurrection for the character. There is also an Omega level reality warper on The 5 which can explain away a lot. Did you see Nightcrawler up until HoX the same way since he was using a new body?

Hickman had this to say about "souls" in an interview:

The afterlife is ‘technically’ part of Marvel continuity (and Jack Kirby is ‘technically’ ‘God’), so if you want to make an argument that there’s strict Judeo-Christian set of post-death rules for a resurrection to result in a soul-reclaimed and soul-equipped being, then cool.

The problem is that we don’t do that. Almost every single character death we undo, or character we bring back through whatever story construct or general shenanigans doesn’t go on a soul quest to recover their essence (in the past, yes, sometimes, but not anymore–imagine if we did that nowadays in our current death-resurrection cycle, that’s a lotta issues).

Now, if you want to make the argument that recovering your soul is a lot like William Gibson’s explanation for jet lag (souls don’t travel at the same speed as planes so jet lag is just your body waiting for the soul to catch up), and it’s just floating around waiting to reattach itself to it’s rightful reanimated host, also cool.

But if that’s the case then what about duplicate copies, which one gets the soul? I dunno, that sounds like a story to me, but that’s also why they’re not allowing copies of characters on Krakoa. But what if there’s a mistake and you think someone’s dead, but make a copy anyway? Well, again, that sounds like a story… and we even have a series built around resurrection problems coming out next year.

The broader point is we bring back characters all the time in much less elegant ways, and this one is actually based on an experience Professor Xavier had in earlier X-Men comics, so it makes sense he would think of something like this. He knew it worked.

The resurrected X-men are the same characters and they are still the X-men we know.

 

[wobbly]

The comic says their essences are put into perfect replica bodies, which is exactly a ressurrection for the character. There is also an Omega level reality warper on The 5 which can explain away a lot. Did you see Nightcrawler up until HoX the same way since he was using a new body?

The original Nightcrawler, his original mind, original soul etc, came back in a new body. Charles too had his consciousness transferred to a clone body decades ago to save his life. The original coming back in a new body is different to full on cloning/copying someone body & soul, imo (btw, I wasn't keen on that with Charles back then either).

Is Proteus making the difference here? Snatching the dead mutants original essence from wherever and infusing it into the clone? Well, maybe, but it's not been said or suggested in the story so far. As presented so far, to me, it's Charles using his digitally stored backup copies of their minds to bring back the mutants 'we know'.

Hickman had this to say about "souls" in an interview:

The resurrected X-men are the same characters and they are still the X-men we know.

If that's how you see it that's fine by me and I respect Hickman's opinion on it too. You'll note Ive been saying this is my opinion on the matter and how I personally feel about using this form of cloning to get around death. I'm not trying to say anyone who is fine with this is wrong, but I personally don't care for it. It just doesn't feel right, to me.

 

[psylockolussus]

It doesn't feel right at all.

I hope Kevin Feige ignores Hickman's X-men's stories.

 

[Marvel united]

One thing I would like to see touched upon in this new version of the X-Men is intersectionality. How someone who's black and a mutant will have a different experience vs. Someone who's white and a mutant vs. Someone who is gay and a mutant. Someone with a pre-existing oppressed identity becomes a mutant and now their identities intersect.

I think the fact that the mutants will exist in a world where the Avengers are loved will allow Marvel to take a much more critical, nuanced look at the mutant plight than Fox did. In a way that feels very contemporary and in-tune with what minorities struggle with in modern times.

Also, I think it's important that Marvel have people of color and other minorities behind the camera for this project. Being a minority, their insight into the world that the X-Men navigate would be invaluable.

Marvel pursued a Black director for Black Panther, an Asian director for Shang-Chi and a female director for Black Widow for that reason.

Bts creative team should be a diverse group of people so they can all add a little piece of themselves to the X-Equation

Isn't that from the X-Tinction Agenda where Jean and Logan were prisoners in the same cell at it looked like Logan was going to die? If so, that seemed like an act of kindness/mercy on the part of Jean. (To quote Homer Simpson: "Ah, sweet pity. Where would my love life been without it?")

Not that there isn't an element of mutual attraction there. Jean was retconned into finding Logan intriguing when she came back to life from Dark Phoenix Saga and Claremont had a chip on his shoulder about editors messing with the happy ending he gave Scott with Madelyne Pryor.

Yup, that's where it's from. Forgive me, it's been a very long time since I read X-Tinction Agenda.

 

[BoredGuy]

Mutant Director for X-Men or no deal Marvel!
lol jk

Related to your point, I'd also love to see the Morlocks brought into this properly, show that dichotomy between Human-passing Mutants and Visually-apparent mutants (outside of Nightcrawler and Mystique's "We shouldn't have to" moment, and that "Mutant and Proud" crap in First Ass)

 

[Lip]

One thing I would like to see touched upon in this new version of the X-Men is intersectionality. How someone who's black and a mutant will have a different experience vs. Someone who's white and a mutant vs. Someone who is gay and a mutant. Someone with a pre-existing oppressed identity becomes a mutant and now their identities intersect.

Thinking about how the MCU X-Men movie could be, I'd have Bobby and Jubilee as the POVs teenage characters. Showing them parallelly being bullied at school and rejected at home. Jubilee bullied for being chinese and rejected for being a mutant, and Bobby bullied for being a mutant and rejected for being gay.

I'd have parental rejection as one of the main themes of the first movie.

 

[Detective Conan]

Nope. This was in 1990.

Jean is drawn with a rather large bum here.

She might give Jennifer Lopez a run for her money in the big butt department.

I guess that universe’s Logan likes em’ thick!

*everyone then looks at me in disgust*

What? I can’t be the only one who thought this?

 

[BoredGuy]

She got that Kardashian ass there

but yeah, even the first episode of the Animated series had the love triangle going on
The Jean/Logan thing predates the movies and New X-Men by quite some time

New X-Men just made it official that Logan was better for Jean than Scott could ever hope to be

 

[Mad Ones]

It doesnt feel right = blind loyalty to Claremont at the expense of the entire IP.

The topic of intersectionality has been pretty absent from recent comics, which are typically written with a "colour blindness" that is pretty unrealistic. Iceman's mini did some stuff about being gay (closeted) and a mutant, as well as a metaphorical commentary on assimilation vs subversion in the queer community.

Storm's dad is from Harlem, and Claremont wrote a story about Storm going to the projects. It's one of the best character-driven issues in his run. Later, he would write her help bring life into a Kenyan tribe and witness their rituals. Some beautiful stuff there. Keep in mind that the word "intersectionality" was created by Kimberly Krenshaw to explain specifically black women's experiences.

Dani Moonstar has been the best case of intersectionality in the comics, though. Being both a mutant and Cheyenne (and later a Valkyrie) seemed so contradictory to her and yet all three were important. Unfortunately, Dani's Valkyrie side has defined her in the last two decades at the expense of being Cheyenne (I wonder why...)

 

[MilkmanDan]

She got that Kardashian ass there

but yeah, even the first episode of the Animated series had the love triangle going on
The Jean/Logan thing predates the movies and New X-Men by quite some time

New X-Men just made it official that Logan was better for Jean than Scott could ever hope to be

It's true. Logan's attraction to Jean was a plot point way back in the 70's. And frankly that's where it should have stayed. He had a (one-sided) crush on Jean, got over it and fell in love with Mariko. It was a perfectly nice little subplot.

Sadly, between Claremont's pettyness and the every new version of the X-Men (cartoon, movies, Ultimate) choosing to re-use that story, the boring pairing of Logan/Jean continues its chemistry-free existence. I just hope MCU will resist the urge to give that particular dead horse yet another beating.

 

[Chesterfield]

Perfection. Feige better not mess this up:

Gorgeous dark black skin and visually arresting.

 

[SumT]

An actress than can give that "larger than life"/powerfull/exotic vibe would be perfect for Storm.
One thing is for sure, it shouldnt be an american actress (at least to me)

 

[Iceman]

It's true. Logan's attraction to Jean was a plot point way back in the 70's. And frankly that's where it should have stayed. He had a (one-sided) crush on Jean, got over it and fell in love with Mariko. It was a perfectly nice little subplot.

Sadly, between Claremont's pettyness and the every new version of the X-Men (cartoon, movies, Ultimate) choosing to re-use that story, the boring pairing of Logan/Jean continues its chemistry-free existence. I just hope MCU will resist the urge to give that particular dead horse yet another beating.

Agreed. Enough already. It sends me to sleep.

 

[Shuri]

Perfection. Feige better not mess this up:

Gorgeous dark black skin and visually arresting.

I just saw this on twitter. If only she's an actress. I want someone that looks as close to her as possible and with the same goddess-like vibe to play storm. Marvel better be taking note, people can't wait to see MCU storm. If they get her casting right, there's going to be a lot of goodwill from fans.

 

[Iceman]

Storm can be a leader and driver of both the X-Men and MCU as a whole if they get her right.

 

[Chesterfield]

Exactly, "if"; and there's no reason why they can't get her right even if it's out of necessity to really differentiate from Fox' interpretation of the character and the X-Men mythology as a whole.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

She nailed that.

 

[Herofan]

Thinking about how the MCU X-Men movie could be, I'd have Bobby and Jubilee as the POVs teenage characters. Showing them parallelly being bullied at school and rejected at home. Jubilee bullied for being chinese and rejected for being a mutant, and Bobby bullied for being a mutant and rejected for being gay.

I'd have parental rejection as one of the main themes of the first movie.

Parental rejection would be starting the series pretty dark/intense and angsty, that could work but would probably demand the series start in a tone similar to the Fox series, not something more like typical MCU or TAS fun (at least fun at times), would make Jubilee very different from how she had been before or at least TAS, and would imply the mass public had become very intolerant pretty quickly. I liked that TAS had Jubilee and her adoptive parents still loving each other, them concerned about but not rejecting her, even though the school was considered to be a better environment for her.

 

[Marvel united]

Perfection. Feige better not mess this up:

Gorgeous dark black skin and visually arresting.

Yes sir.

I think the fact that Storm has never been fully realized on film may be a blessing in disguise. Because now she can be at the forefront of the franchise

An actress than can give that "larger than life"/powerfull/exotic vibe would be perfect for Storm.
One thing is for sure, it shouldnt be an american actress (at least to me)

It would be very cool if they could find an actual African/Kenyan actress for Storm. It would probably have to be a relatively unknown -- newcomer, which is my preferred casting model for these characters. A search across the African diaspora to find the MCU's Storm

 

[Lip]

That would be amazing. Rejected by their parents/society, they find their true home in the X-Men: a group of outcasts -- where they learn that being who you are in the face of adversity is something to be proud of; Celebrated even. Bobby & Jubilee could be the avatars of the mutant coming of age in it's purest form.

A family coming together is really what I have in mind for the first movie.

Parental rejection would be starting the series pretty dark/intense and angsty, that could work but would probably demand the series start in a tone similar to the Fox series, not something more like typical MCU or TAS fun (at least fun at times), would make Jubilee very different from how she had been before or at least TAS, and would imply the mass public had become very intolerant pretty quickly. I liked that TAS had Jubilee and her adoptive parents still loving each other, them concerned about but not rejecting her, even though the school was considered to be a better environment for her.

A big part of "being a mutant" is an allegory to being LGBTQ+. And parental rejection is, wanting or not, a big part of the experience of many LGBTQ+ people. If they're aiming for that kind of allegory, it just makes sense.

 

[Lip]

Perfection. Feige better not mess this up:

Gorgeous dark black skin and visually arresting.

The outfit choice is... questionable.

But overall it's a shoot.

 

[Marvel united]

A family coming together is really what I have in mind for the first movie.



A big part of "being a mutant" is an allegory to being LGBTQ+. And parental rejection is, wanting or not, a big part of the experience of many LGBTQ+ people. If they're aiming for that kind of allegory, it just makes sense.

And further expanding on your point, "parental rejection" does not have to be presented through the lense of a dark, gloomy world like the Fox films. Angsty? Sure, but angst has always been a major part of the teenage experience and a part of the X-Men franchise as a consequence. There are plenty of coming of age stories that deal with rejection from parents & teen angst.

It depends on how it's executed. Jubilee's original parents were also Chinese immigrants, so there's something there to play with too.

The X-Men movie can be meaningful and socially conscious to our times while still being fun, funny and a blast to watch. (See 'Dear White People', 'Crazy Rich Asians', 'Dope' for example). Especially if they examine the prejudice from a more nuanced, socially relevant angle than Fox did -- as opposed to painting over the issue with as wide a brush as possible. Hence the mention of Intersectional discrimination. The world wasn't really ready for a much more critical analysis of racism, bigotry and discriminatory systems 20 years ago - in a CBM. But times have changed and the X-Men should evolve with them

The sequels should be able to build on the seeds sowed in the first film as human-mutant relations deteriorate and the films become darker as time goes on, reflecting the X-Men themselves' darker outlook on the world.

 

[Lip]

On another note, maybe it doesn't quite fit fully the "parental rejection" theme, but Scott could serve that in some way.

I mean, if I remember correctly, both Scott and Alex were sent to a foster care, but Alex was quickly adopted while Scott remained there for a really long time. A lot of people are "eager" to adopt kids, but they always overlook and reject older kids. This is something that always comes to my mind when I think about Scott. How that could've affected him. But I don't remember anything hinting that in the comics really.

One of the strengths in FOX's approach was trying to bring more psychological complexity to the characters. And man, when I think about Scott, Alex and their relationship... it's such a huge fertile ground. Too bad one of FOX's major problem was just being obsessed over the same characters and not giving anybody else a chance.

It could've been a good angle to explore.

 

[Marvel united]

On another note, maybe it doesn't quite fit fully the "parental rejection" theme, but Scott could serve that in some way.

I mean, if I remember correctly, both Scott and Alex were sent to a foster care, but Alex was quickly adopted while Scott remained there for a really long time. A lot of people are "eager" to adopt kids, but they always overlook and reject older kids. This is something that always comes to my mind when I think about Scott. How that could've affected him. But I don't remember anything hinting that in the comics really.

One of the strengths in FOX's approach was trying to bring more psychological complexity to the characters. And man, when I think about Scott, Alex and their relationship... it's such a huge fertile ground. Too bad one of FOX's major problem was just being obsessed over the same characters and not giving anybody else a chance.

It could've been a good angle to explore.

Oh, for sure. Imagine how devastating that must be, to have your brother adopted by another family to live a fairly comfortable life while you are stuck in the system, alone. That's why I could see him bonding with Jubilee. Because he knows how it feels to be yanked through Foster care, longing for a sense of family. Charles gave Scott a father figure and the X-Men gave him a sense of belonging that he hadn't had since the plane accident

There are elements to these characters' backstories that could totally be expanded upon for their MCU incarnations for maximum emotional gravitas.

It sucks that Singer/Kinberg had tunnel vision when it came to the X-Men but that gives Feige and his team the chance to push elements that Fox neglected to the forefront of their X-Men franchise.

You know the old saying: one man's trash is another man's treasure? Well, Singer/Kinberg were sitting on a pot of gold the whole time and it's not like they didn't realize it, it's just that they didn't care haha.