Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Lip]

There are latin mutants like Rictor and Beto. The "problem" is that they're mostly associated with other mutant teams.

The X-Men in general lacks representation of latinos. I do think there are iconic members that could be modernized as latinos in the MCU in a way that keeps all the essence of the character. But I won't get to that.

Marvel promised more representation for latinos. Im waiting.

 

[rebellion]

i cant take anyone who wants piotr to be gay seriously XD the iconic kitty romance means nothing to you? id like to see those elements from the comics on the big screen, thank you very much...
theres a reason why bobby is now gay, it's because there was nothing to lose.

 

[Lip]

Before talking about Kitty and Colossus relationship, I think it's important to remember the erasure of Kitty's bisexuality and her relationship with Rachel. Something Claremont himself has brought up.

So before talking about whether it's right or wrong to erase Piotr's relationship with Kitty, let's keep in mind how wrong it is to erase her bisexuality.

 

[rebellion]

Before talking about Kitty and Colossus relationship, I think it's important to remember the erasure of Kitty's bisexuality and her relationship with Rachel. Something Claremont himself has brought up.

So before talking about whether it's right or wrong to erase Piotr's relationship with Kitty, let's keep in mind how wrong it is to erase her bisexuality.

and thats lame, but the state of things is that they are iconic as a couple now. on the other hand, i'd be fine with rachel being bi/lesbian.. so there's room to change things up and keep certain elements from the comics.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Wait Kitty was bi? When? I know nothing of this.

 

[Lip]

Wait Kitty was bi? When? I know nothing of this.

It was what Claremont wanted to do. And Rachel was supposed to be Kitty's main love interest.

 

[Lip]

and thats lame, but the state of things is that they are iconic as a couple now. on the other hand, i'd be fine with rachel being bi/lesbian.. so there's room to change things up and keep certain elements from the comics.

I understand that. I trust me, I've been attached to them as a couple as well. I've just became more and more aware of Kitty's sexuality recently. And it's just wrong all that erasure. And I don't see any reason to keep ignoring it.

Also, portraying Rachel as bi/lesbian doesn't make any less wrong to keep forcing Kitty to be portrayed as straight.

 

[Mad Ones]

I think it would be best to let go of the Kitty x Colossus pairing as a product of its time. Kitty was a very young girl when she had a crush on a late teen Colossus, making their relationship very awkward. A five year age difference means little when both parties are adults, but means a whole lot when one of the characters is 13/14. Kitty has also been written recently by men who had "crushes" on her when they were young readers, and use Colossus to live out their crush. Not to mention that Kitty has had relationships with Illyana and Rachel that would have been unquestionably romantic if the characters were different genders.

Iceman "came out" as a mutant in X2, not as gay. His girlfriend was right there beside him lol. The scene had none of potential the comics have explored. In the comics, the effort Bobby put toward closeting himself really hindered his potential (as an X-man and regarding his mutant powers). In the 90s, Emma Frost possessed his body and mind and did things with his powers Bobby never even dreamed of (and in the process she realized he was gay). I want this in a movie because it's interesting and makes Bobby's sexuality textual rather than just surface/superficial representation for progressive points. The fact that Emma doesn't out him (to anyone else, to the reader, or to himself) makes her look really good and admirable. Emma's brother is a surviver of conversion therapy.

I'm a big fan of Rictor and think the movies should absolutely include him in some capacity. He has visually appealing powers and a punk personality. They could maybe merge Rictor and Avalanche - kind of like what X-men Evolution did with the character Lance. Instead of Dominikos Petrakis, Mystique's brotherhood would have Julio Rictor - a bisexual mutant with earthquake powers that forms a forbidden relationship with Iceman or another gay X-man. Between Rictor, Mystique, and Destiny, the brotherhood could be a badass queer mutant faction haha.

Given the X-men's themes, it's easy to interpret most characters as queer. Xavier and Magneto have a burning and intense relationship. Wolverine has been around for centuries so it's hard to imagination he wouldn't have experimented (and just look at his chemistry with Nightcrawler). Storm and Yukio have definitely boinked. I would like to see the MCU just absolutely go for it (but after Star Wars I am increasingly skeptical!).

 

[Lip]

The portrayal of LGBTs in the MCU have been disappointing and disingeneous so far. There was a scene cut in Black Panther. Then there was the "Endgame will have the MCU's first gay character" fiasco. Then Far From Home "will have a transgender character". And they're just too shy regarding Valkyrie's sexuality.

Now they are making a lot of promises for more representation, including LGBTQ+, in the future of the MCU. Valkyrie will "have her queen" (whatever that means), Eternals will have the first openly gay superhero, and very recently Feige said there's a transgender character in a movie they're currently filming (which seems to be Eternals).

I hope there will be meaningful changes coming, but yeah, we should be skeptical and try not to get expectations too high.

 

[Prettyricky]

The portrayal of LGBTs in the MCU have been disappointing and disingeneous so far. There was a scene cut in Black Panther. Then there was the "Endgame will have the MCU's first gay character" fiasco. Then Far From Home "will have a transgender character". And they're just too shy regarding Valkyrie's sexuality.

Now they are making a lot of promises for more representation, including LGBTQ+, in the future of the MCU. Valkyrie will "have her queen" (whatever that means), Eternals will have the first openly gay superhero, and very recently Feige said there's a transgender character in a movie they're currently filming (which seems to be Eternals).

I hope there will be meaningful changes coming, but yeah, we should be skeptical and try not to get expectations too high.

disney is passive progressive and only says the right things that are ear candy to the sjws plain and simple. Im so sick and tired of hearing we need representation in the MCU just to virtue signal instead of telling good stories. In end game if any character was from the community I sure as hell couldn't tell because the story was great and emotional. Tell great stories and if it fits into the stories great, if not who cares.

 

[CaptainWagner]

disney is passive progressive and only says the right things that are ear candy to the sjws plain and simple. Im so sick and tired of hearing we need representation in the MCU just to virtue signal instead of telling good stories. In end game if any character was from the community I sure as hell couldn't tell because the story was great and emotional. Tell great stories and if it fits into the stories great, if not who cares.

Well, I for one am sick and tired of hearing that representation isn't REALLY important, and therefore doesn't self-justify itself.

No one ever demands a "justification" for including a straight character. Do straight people just automatically "fit" into good stories but the LGBT community is some mystic puzzle piece that has to be dutifully placed in?

 

[JamesHOWLETT]

Armie Hammer as Cyclops
Emma Stone as Jean Grey
Not completely sold on this one but...
Orlando Bloom as Wolverine
Katherine Langford as Rogue
Avan Jogia as Gambit
Cole Sprouse as Iceman
Maggie Q as Psylocke
And Jeffery Wright as Beast

 

[Marvel united]

Like the X-Men haven't been virtue signalling to "SJWS" for the past 55 years. Please.

There are latin mutants like Rictor and Beto. The "problem" is that they're mostly associated with other mutant teams. The X-Men in general lacks representation of latinos. I do think there are iconic members that could be modernized as latinos in the MCU in a way that keeps all the essence of the character. But I won't get to that. Marvel promised more representation for latinos. Im waiting.

A gay, latino Bobby would be great.

 

[psylockolussus]

Obviously he's not a "big-ticket" hero like the others, but I really think people sleep on what Rictor brings to the table in terms of representation. He's a gay hero and also Hispanic, and all these films into the MCU, the most Hispanic representation we've gotten is Luis.

He didn't even join the X-Men. So nope.

 

[Prettyricky]

Well, I for one am sick and tired of hearing that representation isn't REALLY important, and therefore doesn't self-justify itself.

No one ever demands a "justification" for including a straight character. Do straight people just automatically "fit" into good stories but the LGBT community is some mystic puzzle piece that has to be dutifully placed in?

how much better does Logan become if wolverine or professor x is gay? See this is the thing those that scream representation don't get, waving a sign saying this character is gay or straight doesn't make the movie better or worse its just comes off as annoying to most comic-book fans. Skyfall had a great villian who was gay and I could careless because the character and movie overall was great and they didnt wave a flag saying hey Were progressive look at us.

 

[Bayne]

how much better does Logan become if wolverine or professor x is gay? See this is the thing those that scream representation don't get, waving a sign saying this character is gay or straight doesn't make the movie better or worse its just comes off as annoying to most comic-book fans. Skyfall had a great villian who was gay and I could careless because the character and movie overall was great and they didnt wave a flag saying hey Were progressive look at us.

The vast majority of movies don't do any flag waving at all. They just have characters and when media or fans talk about those characters for so much as two seconds people like you have fits and accuse the movie of 'shoving things down people's throats'.

 

[Prettyricky]

The vast majority of movies don't do any flag waving at all. They just have characters and when media or fans talk about those characters for so much as two seconds people like you have fits and accuse the movie of 'shoving things down people's throats'.

I have fits when its made a big deal out of by the studios and fans and then when I see the movie its a nothing burger.

 

[Bayne]

I have fits when its made a big deal out of by the studios and fans and then when I see the movie its a nothing burger.

So ignore them. They have nothing to do with the movie.

 

[CaptainWagner]

how much better does Logan become if wolverine or professor x is gay? See this is the thing those that scream representation don't get, waving a sign saying this character is gay or straight doesn't make the movie better or worse its just comes off as annoying to most comic-book fans. Skyfall had a great villian who was gay and I could careless because the character and movie overall was great and they didnt wave a flag saying hey Were progressive look at us.

I agree that studio execs who try to clap themselves in the back for including a three-second gay kiss that then gets quickly edited out in overseas markets are annoying and not helping anyone.

But none of this has anything to do with my post that you responded to. How does Wolverine or Xavier become a better character if they're straight? These are questions that no one asks unless LGBT representation gets brought up. And none of us are even talking about making those characters gay, at most we're returning to Clairemont's original intents with the characters like Kitty and Rachel that he created.

This is about representation, period. So including characters like Iceman and Rictor (or, as previously mentioned, un-erasing Kitty's bisexuality) And yet people are unwilling to accept representation unless "the story demands it". Which is absurd.

 

[Fincher]

It wouldn't bother me at all if Kitty were bi, but at the same time I wouldn't put too much weight on something being the creator's original intent. If tomorrow it were revealed that the creator of Storm wanted her to be white but was forced to make her black for some reason...nothing would change. Now maybe Kitty's orientation doesn't carry the same significance and there wouldn't be chants of #NotOurShadowcat, but if someone does care about some detail from their experiences with a character, they're not going to change their mind based on what was originally wanted or planned.

 

[Prettyricky]

So ignore them. They have nothing to do with the movie.

its hard to when to the story blows up and facebook, yahoo etc get there hands on it.

 

[Prettyricky]

I agree that studio execs who try to clap themselves in the back for including a three-second gay kiss that then gets quickly edited out in overseas markets are annoying and not helping anyone.

But none of this has anything to do with my post that you responded to. How does Wolverine or Xavier become a better character if they're straight? These are questions that no one asks unless LGBT representation gets brought up. And none of us are even talking about making those characters gay, at most we're returning to Clairemont's original intents with the characters like Kitty and Rachel that he created.

This is about representation, period. So including characters like Iceman and Rictor (or, as previously mentioned, un-erasing Kitty's bisexuality) And yet people are unwilling to accept representation unless "the story demands it". Which is absurd.

if the original Character was perceived as gay thats fine to play with them being gay or straight And see what stories you can tell, but if your changing someone like wolverine, captain america or spider-man to be gay then are you doing it because your adding something to the character or Because you just want the character to be gay? With comic-book characters that have decades of stories and a large fanbase who are use to seeing them a certain way its incredibly hard to just Change there sexual orientation because you want to be progressive. Marvel is not going to suddenly make dr strange gay because they want to be progressive.

Im a straight guy who is somewhat fat and I have never cared to be represented by superheroes on the big screen. Its made up superheroes you want to see jump from page to screen as you remember reading them.

 

[Mad Ones]

if the original Character was perceived as gay thats fine to play with them being gay or straight And see what stories you can tell, but if your changing someone like wolverine, captain america or spider-man to be gay then are you doing it because your adding something to the character or Because you just want the character to be gay? With comic-book characters that have decades of stories and a large fanbase who are use to seeing them a certain way its incredibly hard to just Change there sexual orientation because you want to be progressive. Marvel is not going to suddenly make dr strange gay because they want to be progressive.

Im a straight guy who is somewhat fat and I have never cared to be represented by superheroes on the big screen. Its made up superheroes you want to see jump from page to screen as you remember reading them.

What about when heterosexuality is an actual detriment to the story. Captain American and Sharon Carter absolutely did not work in the MCU. Like at all. It was shoehorned in because Captain America must be heterosexual at all costs. Would Stucky make a better story AND be the kind of representation so important to people (which you can't understand because, like you said, you're straight and see your sexuality in every movie)? Yes.

 

[Mad Ones]

It wouldn't bother me at all if Kitty were bi, but at the same time I wouldn't put too much weight on something being the creator's original intent. If tomorrow it were revealed that the creator of Storm wanted her to be white but was forced to make her black for some reason...nothing would change. Now maybe Kitty's orientation doesn't carry the same significance and there wouldn't be chants of #NotOurShadowcat, but if someone does care about some detail from their experiences with a character, they're not going to change their mind based on what was originally wanted or planned.

You realize that Kitty was written as being in a relationship with Rachel for YEARS? Their romance wouldn't even be up for debate if Rachel was a man. Fans care about faithful adaptations until they don't.

 

[Mad Ones]

Queer people should exist in media when the story calls for it and when it doesn't.

Rictor can be openly bisexual and it not be a "storyline." Iceman can be closeted and it be a storyline because that repression hinders his powers that his team might need to save the day.

Both kinds of rep can and should exist.