Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Wolvieboy17]

I think when they're ready to introduce Mutants into the MCU, we're likely to get a cross-show, peppered approach to weaving characters in. The biggest uphill struggle is going to be introducing the concept of mutants existing and causing waves throughout society. So it makes more sense to me to pave that way gradually in other shows and movies in the lead up.

Doesn't have to be massive. One mutant side character here or there, a cameo, post credits scene, shot of a news show talking about the mutant problem etc. Having so many other shows and movies means that theoretically, Marvel can ease a lot of the burden that the first MCU X-Men film would normally have to shoulder to introduce that world.

It's also probably safe to assume the introduction of mutants into the MCU will be coming off the back of or connected to a larger MCU-wide event (whether it's multiverse, time travel, Eternals based, whatever). So I'm willing to bet it's going to be a huge part of Marvels plan to pave the way for the X-Men.

I don't think Feige is gonna take all this time to plan their introduction the right way and then over or under-stuff the first movie with characters and narrative.

 

[psylockolussus]

A few posts ago you were talking about having the O5 + the giant sized team in the first movie. How many characters is that?

All of them won't have the Tony Stark level of screentime. Avengers and GoTG didn't get equally the same amount of screentime either. And none of them need the 30 seconds level of exposure DoFP gave to the X-Men.

Marvel got the D+ shows and a shared universe, which are tools that could be used.

He had siX X-Men in his first film, seven in X2 and 13 in the third film.

No mention if characters like Psylocke, Bishop, Gambit, Jubilee were going to appear in the D+ before their film appearance. Phoenix and Archangel also are both in his X3.

 

[psylockolussus]

Tbh I'm more partial to O5 getting a show/D+ film that leads into Giant-Sized; introducing all the pieces for that film separately e.g. Wolverine, Storm, O5 - before bringing them all together.

But if it were to be a full fledged trilogy starter, it would probably go something like this

Movie 1:

- Marvel Girl
- Cyclops
- Beast
- Iceman
- Angel
- Polaris

Movie 2:

- Cyclops
- Storm
- Wolverine
- Rogue
- Nightcrawler
- Colossus
- Siryn (sub for Banshee)

New Mutants spinoff D+

- Karma
- Sunspot
- Magik
- Wolfsbane
- Mirage
- Cannonball
- Kitty Pryde (in a supporting role)

X-Factor D+

- Havok
- Polaris
- Strong Guy
- Multiple Man
- Wolfsbane
- Siryrn

Movie 3:

- Cyclops
- Storm
- Jean/Phoenix
- Wolverine
- Gambit
- Rogue
- Colossus
- Jubilee
- Beast
- Iceman
- Archangel
- Bishop
- Psylocke


I'd really want them to build to that humongous Avengers Endgame-esque roster. They have the tools to do it 100%

Bumping for @Lip

Like I don't know how you can be against with a large team for the first film, when you have like 13 people in the third film (four characters making their debut + four who are absent in the 2nd film, making a comeback - Jean as PhoeniX and Warren as Archangel).

 

[Lip]

Bumping for @Lip

That's not the post I was referring to.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Six mutants on a active roster is more than enough for a X-Men movie, especially the first one. Using the number of teammates on a sequel (especially sequels where most of the characters weren’t even developed and were just VFX) as an argument to place them in the first movie is just like what Marvel United said: comparing apples to oranges.

Get the core team and their dynamics down first, then add and subtract however you see fit for sequels and spinoffs.

 

[psylockolussus]

All the X-Men from the future in Dofp had zero development, except Wolverine, since he was the one traveling to the past.

The only X-Men that had a decent role aside from Logan was Beast. So basically only two Xmen had decent roles in that movie. Is that what we want for Marvel Studios film #1?
Im sure no.

So 10 xmen, more villains, more Charles, more key human/politician characters would be too much.

Again the point of bringing up Dofp/X2, is plenty of mutants doesn't automatically mean a bad movie. Some posters were using the Eternals, a rotten rated film as a reason not to have ten X-Men. When having ten X-Men won't be the sole reason of a X-Men movie getting poor reviews.

Dark PhoeniX and Apocalypse didn't have ten X-Men either and look how that movie turned out. X-Men 1 had like seven (if you count Rogue and Bobby) and Storm wasn't eXactly great in the movie so as Jean and Cyclops. So see it doesn't mean, smaller the better. Apples to oranges that.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I don't think it's worth worrying about number of characters as a sign of anything bad. I mean, for e.g. the presence of some mutant characters doesn't mean they even have to be on a team - Just exist in the world. Secondly, with the school setting, very, very easy to include several mutants as students or faculty who don't need an arc in the first film but still have plenty of narrative reason to exist there.

 

[psylockolussus]

Like I said, you could easily introduce Forge as the tech guy and Cecilia as the resident physician like in the comiXs. those two don't really go to battles unless they are needed. Some X-Men stay at the school or the Blackbird. The movies could do that as well. And that leaves room for eight other X-Men.

I don't know what to say but eXpand your imagination. Just because its the first movie, it doesn't mean Marvel Studios can't juggle or handle more characters.

 

[Lip]

Six mutants on a active roster is more than enough for a X-Men movie, especially the first one. Using the number of teammates on a sequel (especially sequels where most of the characters weren’t even developed and were just VFX) as an argument to place them in the first movie is just like what Marvel United said: comparing apples to oranges.

Get the core team and their dynamics down first, then add and subtract however you see fit for sequels and spinoffs.

Regardless of Civil War being a sequel or not, they managed to introduce a major A list character using 5 minutes.

Marvel has shown they can manage wonderfully screentime in that sense.

They can have 5 or 6 chatacters with a bigger role, than 4 with smaller yet impactful introduction. Like students, for instance.

 

[psylockolussus]

It also depends on the story.

When i suggest 10 X-Men, It doesn't mean as opposed to having an O5, its ten young mutants just joining the X-Men.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Regardless of Civil War being a sequel or not, they managed to introduce a major A list character using 5 minutes.

Marvel has shown they can manage wonderfully screentime in that sense.

They can have 5 or 6 chatacters with a bigger role, than 4 with smaller yet impactful introduction. Like students, for instance.

No because you’re still telling a story with characters who were already established with a plethora of movies beforehand.

Unless you start bringing in mutants in other MCU movies first and then they all assemble for the first X-Men movie, then I can kinda see it working.

If that’s not the case, you cannot cram that many characters like Civil War into your initial movie. That’s just not going to serve anyone.

 

[psylockolussus]

The X-Men animated series also featured ten X-Men from the getgo. It can be done. Like if you combined the first three eps, you'll get a 1 hour of screentime. The X-Men were introduced pretty well in those 3 episodes.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Slight topic change... I wonder when they're likely to introduce Namor into MCU. If they keep him as part mutant, that would be a high profile mutant character to introduce.

 

[psylockolussus]

You should google mcu namor.

Movie 1:

- Marvel Girl
- Cyclops
- Beast
- Iceman
- Angel
- Polaris

I'm assuming this would include the Professor which is going to be a total of 7 X-Men. which isn't far off from 10 X-Men.

So the mansion would just have seven mutants and all of them are going to appear in the fights? Okay. So basically like the New Mutants 2020 but with 1 more mutant. Okay.

 

[Lip]

No because you’re still telling a story with characters who were already established with a plethora of movies beforehand.

I don't think that makes any difference because the point remains the same: they made an impactful introduction for a major A List character in 5 minutes.

Take the example Wolvieboy used, with the students. I don't see how it's impossible to have a main team with 5 or 6 characters, and a student like Jubilee having a 5 minutes introduction like Peter Parker.

And yes, I'm talking about using both other movies and D+ shows to further develop this universe. Which means you can have both a character introduced before or further developed later.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

You should google mcu namor.

I mean I remember the rumours that he would be the villain in Black Panther 2, but since it hasn't been confirmed and that was before Chadwick Boseman's passing, is there something else I'm supposed to be knowing?

 

[psylockolussus]

Is it really going to be eXciting just seeing the Professor, and 5 to 6 other mutants in the mansion. I think not.

 

[psylockolussus]

I mean I remember the rumours that he would be the villain in Black Panther 2, but since it hasn't been confirmed and that was before Chadwick Boseman's passing, is there something else I'm supposed to be knowing?

Spoiler

Apparently Namor is already cast in the movie and is the villain. Im not 100% up to date but Namor is the only one Ive read as the villain or antagonist in Wakanda Forever

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't think that makes any difference because the point remains the same: they made an impactful introduction for a major A List character in 5 minutes.

Take the example Wolvieboy used, with the students. I don't see how it's impossible to have a main team with 5 or 6 characters, and a student like Jubilee having a 5 minutes introduction like Peter Parker.

And yes, I'm talking about using both other movies and D+ shows to further develop this universe. Which means you can have both a character introduced before or further developed later.

Its not hard to picture ten mutants living in the mansion, or in my case ten X-Men. If the X-Men are already well eXperienced, and isn't a newly formed team, there are going to be other X-Men in that big mansion.

And just having the o5 + the professor in the mansion sounds boring to me. Like just picturing it, i want to move on to the sequel already.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Can I just say, the disagreement about specific number of mutants/heroes in an X-Men movie is the most on brand conversation for this thread I've seen yet hahaha

Here's my hot take - The film will feature roughly the exact number of X-Men or mutants that the story requires :P

 

[Marvel united]

A few posts ago you were talking about having the O5 + the giant sized team in the first movie. How many characters is that?

All of them won't have the Tony Stark level of screentime. Avengers and GoTG didn't get equally the same amount of screentime either. And none of them need the 30 seconds level of exposure DoFP gave to the X-Men.

Marvel got the D+ shows and a shared universe, which are tools that could be used.

Well, there would be a natural set up for the ANAD team, but the movie would be ABOUT the O5 by & large. That's what the story would be about; their journey of actualization, and cementing their importance in the mythology.

You could end the movie with Xavier welcoming Ororo and some of the others into the Mansion as the O5 graduate and say their goodbyes. So by the time we see 'Ro, Kurt, Piotr, Illyana (and/or whoever else they save on the Island) in the second film, some of that load will be taken off.

And ofc you can have a project like STORM on D+, pick up right where the first film left off, and flesh Ororo out.

I also like the idea of introducing Callisto and the Morlocks in her show

Again the point of bringing up Dofp/X2, is plenty of mutants doesn't automatically mean a bad movie. Some posters were using the Eternals, a rotten rated film as a reason not to have ten X-Men. When having ten X-Men won't be the sole reason of a X-Men movie getting poor reviews.

Dark PhoeniX and Apocalypse didn't have ten X-Men either and look how that movie turned out. X-Men 1 had like seven (if you count Rogue and Bobby) and Storm wasn't eXactly great in the movie so as Jean and Cyclops. So see it doesn't mean, smaller the better. Apples to oranges that.

Of course having a large roster doesn't automatically equal a bad film, it's HOW you do it, how the size of that roster is presented, and whether there's a proper justification for it.

It's less the amount of characters you're introducing, and more so the amount of lore you're unloading onto audiences trying to introduce 3 generations with 10 members. That's a looooot of backstory to unpack, and it's the reason why Eternals is buckling under it's own weight with critics.

You're doing too much, instead of starting with a simpler premise that you can naturally build upon in sequels. Now it doesn't HAVE to be the O5 specifically, but it has to be a team that's digestible to audiences. That's why Singer didn't start with 10 members despite the team being experienced

I don't think it's worth worrying about number of characters as a sign of anything bad. I mean, for e.g. the presence of some mutant characters doesn't mean they even have to be on a team - Just exist in the world. Secondly, with the school setting, very, very easy to include several mutants as students or faculty who don't need an arc in the first film but still have plenty of narrative reason to exist there.

This is pretty much where I'm at. Now, you know I'm advocate of the OG 5. But just because the team itself is the O5, doesn't mean the film wouldn't still mix in elements from other eras. It's not gonna be a straight* adaptation of the 60s run. Characters like Cecilia, Forge, Moira, Sean etc could already exist at the school.

I also really like the idea of introducing an early version of Danger in the film as the X-Men's robot companion e.g. Tars from Interstellar:


Little world building elements like that

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Here's a random thought that's just occurred to me...

I floated a while back that one way they could introduce mutants and keep their history in the MCU intact is to uncover that at some point, Xavier has used cerebro and his powers to make the world forget mutants exist.

Watching the No Way Home trailer for the 20th time now, it just clicked for me that Marvel is already very clearly establishing the concept and ability for someone like Strange to cast a spell that makes the world forget specific information. (With his spell to make people forget Peter's secret identity)

When you combine that with the recent possible rumour about Doctor Strange 2

Spoiler

featuring a cameo from Professor Xavier...

... well then, it's actually not a totally outlandish thing to conceive.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think it would be my favourite way to introduce them. Especially when you consider the societal backlash would be even more dramatic if one day people were to remember there have always been mutants. The fear and hatred would be dialled up to 11.

 

[Silvermoth]

Well, there would be a natural set up for the ANAD team, but the movie would be ABOUT the O5 by & large. That's what the story would be about; their journey of actualization, and cementing their importance in the mythology.

You could end the movie with Xavier welcoming Ororo and some of the others into the Mansion as the O5 graduate and say their goodbyes. So by the time we see 'Ro, Kurt, Piotr, Illyana (and/or whoever else they save on the Island) in the second film, some of that load will be taken off.

And ofc you can have a project like STORM on D+, pick up right where the first film left off, and flesh Ororo out.

I also like the idea of introducing Callisto and the Morlocks in her show

Of course having a large roster doesn't automatically equal a bad film, it's HOW you do it, how the size of that roster is presented, and whether there's a proper justification for it.

It's less the amount of characters you're introducing, and more so the amount of lore you're unloading onto audiences trying to introduce 3 generations with 10 members. That's a looooot of backstory to unpack, and it's the reason why Eternals is buckling under it's own weight with critics.

You're doing too much, instead of starting with a simpler premise that you can naturally build upon in sequels. Now it doesn't HAVE to be the O5 specifically, but it has to be a team that's digestible to audiences. That's why Singer didn't start with 10 members despite the team being experienced


This is pretty much where I'm at. Now, you know I'm advocate of the OG 5. But just because the team itself is the O5, doesn't mean the film wouldn't still mix in elements from other eras. It's not gonna be a straight* adaptation of the 60s run. Characters like Cecilia, Forge, Moira, Sean etc could already exist at the school.

I also really like the idea of introducing an early version of Danger in the film as the X-Men's robot companion e.g. Tars from Interstellar:
View attachment 50351

Little world building elements like that

who would be the perfect actress for Danger? She’s a compelling protaganist especially since they’ve sort of placed robotics as the x-mens archnemesis in the comics at the moment. But maybe too similar to Ultron?

 

[psylockolussus]

Danger is one of the characters I don't want to see in the movies.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Here's a random thought that's just occurred to me...

I floated a while back that one way they could introduce mutants and keep their history in the MCU intact is to uncover that at some point, Xavier has used cerebro and his powers to make the world forget mutants exist.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think it would be my favourite way to introduce them. Especially when you consider the societal backlash would be even more dramatic if one day people were to remember there have always been mutants. The fear and hatred would be dialled up to 11.

I could buy that. Especially since Thanos erased half of the population across the galaxy, it strengthened his idea to protect mutants from an uncertain doom.