Fant4stic Michael B Jordan is "Flame On!" The Human Torch - Part 2

[Paradox1]

Are you a troll or a racist? GREAT question for a mod, even if it's hypothetical! As for those names, Elba got poster billing for Thor and Chloe Bennet is basically a co-lead on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and has been since the pilot. They were also just some prominent examples off the top of my head. Dean Cain and Jason Momoa aren't exactly ivory skinned Anglo Saxon folk, and they've played Superman and Aquaman respectively. MBJ could have definitely addressed the racial remarks without being quite so extreme. He's certainly not the first actor to take on a role like this.

It's news to me that Dean Cain isn't white, lol. Have you seen some of those racial remarks? I've seen some on other forums and that **** makes me sick. It's disgusting the things people will say because they believe they can get away with it. An extreme response would of been a tirade that would of whipped groups of people into it that had no part in it. I thought what he said was well thought out cause lord knows I would of went into them and posted their names, dates, and remarks for the world to see.

 

[Eddie]

Oh, I agree that there was some vile **** said about the man for no good reason. I think you and I (and any other sane person) can agree that racism is bad. I just don't agree with his rather overblown comments on shouldering all of the hate and acting like he's the first person to do this. I believe another poster here used Rosa Parks as a comparison, in the sense that it's insane MBJ is putting playing Johnny Storm on the same level as what Rosa Parks did. There are so many reasons that people aren't happy with this film, and trying to lump so much of it into racist views most fans simply don't share just feels wrong. I think addressing it was good, and it is an important issue. However, it just could have been done in a more classy way (I pointed to how Vondie Curtis-Hall really headed this sort of thing off when his casting was announced when the essay dropped).

As for Dean Cain, he's multiracial. His birth name is Dean Tanaka.

 

[Mad Ones]

Jordan never claims to be the first one and certainly never compares himself to Rosa Parks. What he does say is the he's trying to set a example that will allow for more diversity in lead roles that are traditionally white roles.

 

[Paradox1]

Oh, I agree that there was some vile **** said about the man for no good reason. I think you and I (and any other sane person) can agree that racism is bad. I just don't agree with his rather overblown comments on shouldering all of the hate and acting like he's the first person to do this. I believe another poster here used Rosa Parks as a comparison, in the sense that it's insane MBJ is putting playing Johnny Storm on the same level as what Rosa Parks did. There are so many reasons that people aren't happy with this film, and trying to lump so much of it into racist views most fans simply don't share just feels wrong. I think addressing it was good, and it is an important issue. However, it just could have been done in a more classy way (I pointed to how Vondie Curtis-Hall really headed this sort of thing off when his casting was announced when the essay dropped).

As for Dean Cain, he's multiracial. His birth name is Dean Tanaka.

The Rosa Parks analogy is wrong on all to itself. There is so many things wrong with that,don't get me started. That was a civil rights issue this is an entertainment issue. The more accurate one is Jackie Robinson who break the color line in baseball. He wasn't the first black athlete to play pro sports but he was the most important for a lot of reasons. MBJ playing Torch is no way as important let me make that clear.

 

[Zarex]

The Rosa Parks analogy is wrong on all to itself. There is so many things wrong with that,don't get me started. That was a civil rights issue this is an entertainment issue. The more accurate one is Jackie Robinson who break the color line in baseball. He wasn't the first black athlete to play pro sports but he was the most important for a lot of reasons. MBJ playing Torch is no way as important let me make that clear.

I made the Rosa Parks crack as a yuck. Mr. Jordan isn't Rosa Parks, Jackie Robinson or Barack Obama And he's not breaking any color lines that weren't already broken by Halle Berry, Will Smith, Michael Jai White, Samuel L. Jackson, Don Cheadle and Anthony Mackie.

Fans are always going to be annoyed when actors don't resemble the comicbook characters they are chosen to portray. The smart ones ignore it and go about their business.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I agree with the opinion that it's messed up diversity is only placing a female in a male role, or a black man into a white man's role. Asian, hispanic, other race/ethnicity segments go completely ignored.

I also think it is totally warranted to have an issue with a race or sex of a character being changed, without being racist or sexist.

Make some NEW diverse characters rather than changing existing one's.

 

[Mad Ones]

Make some NEW diverse characters rather than changing existing one's.

This comes up so much and I just don't get it. Please, please tell me how I can just make some new diverse characters in a genre where fans are notoriously resistant to change and are mostly interested in characters created decades ago? These studios are only interested in making money. The Fantastic Four brand might be shaky but I guarantee you that Fox has more confidence in making a Fantastic Four movie than an all new original diverse creation. Studios are taking enough time bringing long established diverse characters from the comics.

Yes, superhero movies from all studios fail abysmally when it comes to Asian, Hispanic, and Latino characters. Jordan is talking about his experiences, though.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Honestly if you consider that black men are only 5-6% of the population, they get a ton of exposure in film/tv. Other race/ethnicity segments get like zero representation. Diversity needs to include more than white men young and old, YOUNG white women, and black men.

 

[Mad Ones]

Honestly if you consider that black men are only 5-6% of the population, they get a ton of exposure in film/tv. Other race/ethnicity segments get like zero representation. Diversity needs to include more than white men young and old, YOUNG white women, and black men.

I'm assuming that's an American statistic? No one is arguing that diversity ends with black male representation and no one is arguing that other groups don't need to be represented as well.

In fact, to be more inclusive more characters should be race-switched. But you're against that?

 

[Avenging Angel]

I actually heard Michael was rumored to be cast as Wally West. But since his current role as JS they're still looking for his replacement.

 

[Eddie]

This comes up so much and I just don't get it. Please, please tell me how I can just make some new diverse characters in a genre where fans are notoriously resistant to change and are mostly interested in characters created decades ago? These studios are only interested in making money. The Fantastic Four brand might be shaky but I guarantee you that Fox has more confidence in making a Fantastic Four movie than an all new original diverse creation. Studios are taking enough time bringing long established diverse characters from the comics.

Yes, superhero movies from all studios fail abysmally when it comes to Asian, Hispanic, and Latino characters. Jordan is talking about his experiences, though.

Kamala Khan, the new Ms. Marvel, is doing pretty well for Marvel. There are rumors that she's already being considered for the MCU. Just saying.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

So just because a people don't want a black Johnny Storm, they're automatically racists?

What if they made a new Fat Albert movie and Fat Albert or another one of his friends were white? Would you be upset?

How about if they had Tyler Posey (the only young Latino I can think of at the moment) play Miles Morales in a future Spider-Man movie? I mean Morales is a Latino last name after all, changing him to look Mestizo and not black wouldn't be a big deal right?

Would AA opposed to those changes make them racists?

It wouldn't really matter if race wasn't essential to the characters personality, or character background etc. I haven't been a FF comic reader but I haven't seen one moment or story arch where Johnny was defined by him being a white guy. If Johnny were written as a Russian teen who grew up in Russia and later moved to the United States and his nationally played a part in his character ( accent etc) then YES he should be white. Black Panther and Storm have African backgrounds that play apart in their character. So they should be black. Johnny is a blonde haired, blue eyed dude in the comics I get it. But that version of the character will be around for years to come in comics and future movies. But like I said this movie is just one spin on the character.

Blade is black but his race has nothing to do with his character really. Blade could be a white guy, Hispanic guy, or Asian guy. His background isn't really tied to a specific race. So I wouldn't be up in arms boycotting a Blade movie if they felt that a non black actor was a good fit for the role. Nick Fury can be any race, because is racial background isn't a huge part of his character. I am a long time comic book reader and FAN. Unlike other fans I don't mind different comic book creators or filmmaker giving their own interpretation of characters. I don't think it's written in stone that a characters have to say exactly the same for years and years with no variation. Also, didn't Stan Lee shoot an email to Josh Trank giving his okay for MBJ as Johnny? So why can't fans let it go already? It's not like this one movie is gonna erase white Johnny from existence.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I also agree that there should be new diverse characters going forward in comics and film.

 

[Eddie]

I also agree that there should be new diverse characters going forward in comics and film.

I'm all for it. Marvel has done a pretty good job of introducing a great variety of characters in the last decade or so. The Young Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Runaways, etc., there are some cool characters out there. At this point, I just don't see Fant4stic getting folded into the MCU (not even commenting on quality here, it just doesn't look like it would fit continuity at all). If MBJ ever gets an MCU role, I think early 2000's character Isaiah Bradley could be an interesting fit. I don't know that the character is likely for a film, but a period piece event series (ala Agent Carter) could be a great tie-in for Young Avengers.

 

[Dasher10]

I also agree that there should be new diverse characters going forward in comics and film.

Which is true but the FF are still the whitest property in comics. Not only all the members of the team but also their supporting cast. It's a burden which no other comics property bears. I can absolutely see the reason behind casting Jordan as Johnny.

Look at all the FF's friends like Willie Lumpkin, Frankie Raye and Alicia Masters. Then look at their villains. Every last one of them is white and nearly all of their villains are male except for Thundra who's more of a frenemy. And that hasn't changed since the 60s.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Semi serious question - Is Fox trying to put reviewers on notice with all this crap? "You better not give this film a bad review or you're going to be seen as racist."

The reason I think it might not be crazy to think that's part of the strategy is the timing. Nobody has been talking about Jordan's race. Most fans got over that more than a year ago, but we're just about two months out and getting to the point promotion should be starting.

Instead of having Jordan come out and talk about the actual movie, they have him come out and try to revive this dead horse that has been beaten to death.

I don't believe things like this just happen by accident. I think they're doing this somewhat intentionally.

 

[Dasher10]

Semi serious question - Is Fox trying to put reviewers on notice with all this crap? "You better not give this film a bad review or you're going to be seen as racist."

The reason I think it might not be crazy to think that's part of the strategy is the timing. Nobody has been talking about Jordan's race. Most fans got over that more than a year ago, but we're just about two months out and getting to the point promotion should be starting.

Instead of having Jordan come out and talk about the actual movie, they have him come out and try to revive this dead horse that has been beaten to death.

I don't things like this just happen by accident. I think they're doing this somewhat intentionally.

Too easy to take this post out of context. Editing it but the point still stands. It's playing the race card when I don't have a problem with the cast and I hope that a sequel does better with the same cast under a different director.

 

[Eddie]

Semi serious question - Is Fox trying to put reviewers on notice with all this crap? "You better not give this film a bad review or you're going to be seen as racist."

The reason I think it might not be crazy to think that's part of the strategy is the timing. Nobody has been talking about Jordan's race. Most fans got over that more than a year ago, but we're just about two months out and getting to the point promotion should be starting.

Instead of having Jordan come out and talk about the actual movie, they have him come out and try to revive this dead horse that has been beaten to death.

I don't things like this just happen by accident. I think they're doing this somewhat intentionally.

Sadly, I think that this is exactly what's happening. Hell, Josh Trank ended his total silence to call people racists when, again, that isn't at all what most fans dislike about this film.

 

[fantastic fifth]

I suppose SOME type of buzz or excitement is better than nothing at all......

 

[Joe Rockhead]

Semi serious question - Is Fox trying to put reviewers on notice with all this crap? "You better not give this film a bad review or you're going to be seen as racist."

The reason I think it might not be crazy to think that's part of the strategy is the timing. Nobody has been talking about Jordan's race. Most fans got over that more than a year ago, but we're just about two months out and getting to the point promotion should be starting.

Instead of having Jordan come out and talk about the actual movie, they have him come out and try to revive this dead horse that has been beaten to death.

I don't believe things like this just happen by accident. I think they're doing this somewhat intentionally.

I think it all depends on the venue.

This wasn't an interview, it was a guest essay Jordan wrote for Entertainment Weekly.

And as I recall from his interview on Jimmy Kimmel (on Disney-owned ABC), Jimmy broached the subject, where I think he handled the question a bit better.

I do not fault Jordan for speaking his mind on the subject. I'm sure that there were plenty of truly racist comments directed his way and his only real action was to accept the part. All of the racist comments certainly over the top and undeserved. Those people participating in those specific comments SHOULD be taken to task for their actions.

I think some of his rhetoric was over the top though. 'Shouldering the hate', 'taking the brunt' etc. makes it seem like he's on a personal crusade to change people's perceptions, when the reality is so much less noble --- he's an actor that is accepting a part offered to him by his friend. That's it.

In the grand scheme of things, the color of Johnny Storm's skin and the nature of his upbringing are pretty meaningless in a movie that reflects the bare minimum similarities with the Fantastic Four comics.

 

[cronosred]

I hope Entertainment Weekly has Aurora Perrineau do an essay as well considering all the hate she's getting from black women for not being black enough for the role of Shana in the Jem and the Holograms movie in which she was cast.

 

[Dasher10]

I hope Entertainment Weekly has Aurora Perrineau do an essay as well considering all the hate she's getting from black women for not being black enough for the role of Shana in the Jem and the Holograms movie in which she was cast.

But they have a point. She doesn't look at all like the character she's playing. I would have gone with somebody darker.

 

[metaphysician]

I wonder if MBJ really has considered whether he wants to be known as the pioneering black Johnny Storm in a terrible movie.

 

[wobbly]

But they have a point. She doesn't look at all like the character she's playing. I would have gone with somebody darker.

Same issue here.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I wonder if MBJ really has considered whether he wants to be known as the pioneering black Johnny Storm in a terrible movie.

Has anyone seen the movie? How do we know it will be terrible? I love how people are writing this movie off simply because they don't like the casting, or director or whatever. People were writing Guardians of the Galaxy off as being a flop or medicore before it even hit theaters last year and we all know how that turned out.