Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'The Batman' started by Invader Joker, Oct 19, 2019.
My hope is that the Penguin series at least kicks off with Reeves/Greig Fraser on the first episode just to set the tone, but yeah, I don’t expect that kind of involvement across the board.
Yep. It's a solid tune but it doesn't go anywhere. There's not a lot you can do with those four notes; it fits a very specific mood, but that's it. It needed a fleshed out secondary section, similar to how Adventure's of Han has both an a and b theme (and no, I'm not comparing Giacchino to Williams, it's just an example):
Even Zimmer's pounding theme from BvS undergoes more variation in its suite at the end of the soundtrack. Like you said, the Wayne family motif is an entirely separate composition, just like Beautiful Lies or Newton Howard's were.
What I had imagined was something like this fan piece. It starts off with those four notes and then builds into something more heroic. It doesn't need to sound exactly like that, but something more of a piece than The Batman suite on the album, which is clearly two different compositions awkwardly stitched together.
Not sure if it's been posted before in the thread, but posting anyway:
Honestly I can't say I agree with the notion that the Batman theme needs to be expanded on
Batman is such a complex character, with two vastly different and conflicting sides to him that trying to encapsulate him as a character in one leitmotif is nigh impossible. The literal only person I've ever seen to absolutely nail it was Shirley Walker. Everyone else has attempted, some have even gotten extremely close to Walker, but none have matched her melody for encapsulating the entire character. And I don't know if you can make a different melody that does it. It's like trying to top John Williams' Superman theme. That is the Batman theme. Maybe not in terms of sheer iconography, but in terms of encapsulating the character it's ****ing perfect.
However, Giacchino more or less electing to go the complete opposite direction in my opinion was genius in of itself. As I said, to encapsulate this character in literally just one melody in my opinion is extremely close to being impossible with only one composer absolutely acing it. So instead, he makes two and focuses on having each melody perfectly encapsulate that side of the character. And...well
He nails that. His Batman theme is a perfect reflection of the dark, angry and vengeful scourge on crime. It's extremely simple, but so's the "Batman" side of the character in a way. His sole purpose, sole obsession, is this vengeful crusade on crime. But then...his "Bruce Wayne" theme. When it comes to the "who's the mask?" debate, my answer has always been that it's neither Batman nor Bruce the playboy. The true Bruce Wayne is the man in the cave, suit on but cowl down, working at the Bat Computer and talking with Alfred. The deeply scarred, yet compassionate and altruistic man who refuses to give up on his city and never wants anyone to experience his pain. That first melody, in my opinion, is the greatest representation of Batman's true self that I have ever heard. It's sad, heroic, hopeful and so goddamn emotionally rich.
Rather than try to replicate the impossibility that Walker overcame, he dedicates two wholely different melodies so that they can both harmonise and encapsulate the character instead. And in my opinion? He absolutely nailed that. Shirley Walker is the greatest apple ever created, Michael Giacchino is the greatest orange ever created.
Very well said, @DeadlyWest! This post reminded me to mention that I always enjoy reading your thoughts on here. It always shocks me that you are a comparatively recent member because your posting style always reminds me of this board's elder statemen like Boom and Kane.
Now, I have to raise one caveat to your analysis of Walker's masterful theme. In order to address the character's complexity, Walker actually has to resort to two versions of her theme. The core melody had two answers/resolutions, one dark and somber, the other heroic and uplifting, which she explains here:
One of my favourite parts of Giacchino's Sonata in Darkness is that it reminds me of Shirley playing her Batman theme solo on the piano here.
Haha, well the writing definitely takes a lot of time. It's just me putting my thoughts together as best I can
And absolutely true, with Walker implementing the pronged variations on her theme. Which arguably even reinforces my point that you can't really encapsulate the character of Batman in a single leitmotif. But even with Walker having to use two different variations of her theme, they're still just that. Variations on the same melody. It's likely why Walker was able to nail Batman in a way that no one before (and even arguably after) was able to. But Giacchino, on the other hand, stands along with her by being the greatest orange to Walker's apple by taking it in a whole other direction. Rather than two variations of the same theme, he flat out has two different themes which when combined serve to encapsulate the character. Both are downright masterclasses in character themes.
Also yeah, Sonata in Darkness might be my favourite piece on the soundtrack for the reasons you just described. It's utterly masterful and there's some level of fascination that comes with listening to these great composers kinda just...riffing on these amazing melodies and playing around with it.
I don't see Walker's theme as two themes per se-- just one longer and more complex theme with two halves. It's the very fact that it can resolve in different ways for different effect that makes it a great theme IMO. There's a lot of flexibility in how it can be applied, which is ideal.
Similarly, John Williams' Superman theme has two distinct sections that are both pretty much equally iconic and both can be referenced on their own to great effect.
I still think there is room for Giacchino to build off his theme. The two note minor VI thing is just a great foundation for Batman-ish stuff to emerge from. Speaking as a musician/composer I hear so many possible directions it could go while keeping the same rhythmic pulse as the backbone. I think it could use a more defined "B" section. I'd love to see him push it further in the sequel.
This is where I do kind of miss opening credits sequences though, cause I'd love to hear what a full-on Batman "suite" from Giacchino would've been.
I think the score worked fantastically in the film though, don't get me wrong. I just think there is a lot of room to take it to the next level.
Tidal has updated the Soundtrack to Master quality...
I've been listening to this soundtrack nonstop.
I have something like 31 plays of The Bat's True Calling alone on my iTunes
People have criticized Catwoman’s theme sounding like a bar juke. It makes so much sense when you realize where she works in the movie.
Her theme definitely hits different while watching the film. Even Riddler's theme popped for me when I first saw the film.
Yeah. Riddler’s theme was goofy as hell. Because he was also goofy as hell sometimes.
I was looking for a couple pieces of music from the movie that doesn't seem to be on the soundtrack. Particularly the piano music from the end of the Bruce/Alfred scene in the Batcave in the beginning of the movie that sounds like "Something in the Way" and the music during the Bruce/Carmine scene.
Yeah, also the Batman theme that plays as Batman walks up to Penguin. Kinda wish that was on the end of Highway to the Anger Zone
I hope they release a more complete version. Sometimes they do that.
To be honest, I am perfectly fine with the Batman leitmotif being so simple. It reminds me of Williams' Jaws theme or Zimmer's droning one-note Joker theme. By being so simple, it can be embedded into more situational composition really easily. For instance, during Selina's attempt to kill Falcone, the main melody is based around her and what she is doing, but when the movie cuts across to Bruce at the same time, the Batman theme is subtly in the background.
Is the music from the Batman/Joker asylum scene anywhere on the soundtrack? I was trying to find it, as well as the music when Batman breaks into Riddler's apartment. It has a stripped down version of the Riddler's theme that's very eerie.
I really doubt the former is, I can't recall any music on the soundtrack that isn't in a scene somewhere in the movie (with the exception of Sonata in Darkness and even that plays over the credits). Also don't think the second piece is on there either, given the soundtrack is in chronological order and it skips straight from the Iceberg Lounge sequence right to Pumpkin Pie
I loved Zimmer's TDK score, but it doesn't lend itself to replaying like a great album. Begins was also a blast, but same story.
I pretty much have put this new score into my weekly album rotations along side some Cloud Nothings, Frightened Rabbit, Radiohead, The National...
Even if I don't fit it in fully; I play Highway / Flood Of Terrors > Rafter(s) > True Calling > [Something In The Way] > Farewell > Sonata In Darkness a lot each week. It's like my currently favorite 'hype/sadness' playlist.
For me, Giacchino's score is more to vibe to and put on at night. Zimmer's scores, especially TDKR for me were/are prime material for workout mixes. Stuff like A Dog Chasing Cars and Imagine the Fire has powered me through many 5ks, haha. But yeah, it's more for select tracks and suites, not the entire album.
I love the score so much, specially the 2 first tracks. The way they were used in the film is just... *chef kiss
The rendition of the theme toward the end of “An Im-purr-fect Murder”.
Also the drums when Highway to the Anger Zone kicks in