Comics Most annoying recent change?

[drewr15]

You didn't believe him, did you?

I didn't but I wanted to...i really did.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

The sad thing is my second favorite Marvel hero is Iron Man so I'm still screwed with this whole Civil War business.

 

[drewr15]

The sad thing is my second favorite Marvel hero is Iron Man so I'm still screwed with this whole Civil War business.

Used to be one of mine too...talking the older days when Micheline was writing Iron Man. Loved that book.

 

[Chris Wallace]

The sad thing is my second favorite Marvel hero is Iron Man so I'm still screwed with this whole Civil War business.

Because he's become a (see my sig)?

 

[Chris Wallace]

I didn't but I wanted to...i really did.

I love when people go into something knowing a person is full of s*** & still feels the need to call them on it. When JQ said he was doing all these things w/the fans' interests/wants at heart, you should've known nothing he said was worht the paper it's printed on.

 

[Dangerous]

Well ever since SP I have not trusted a word he has said.

 

[Chris Wallace]

What did he say then?

 

[drewr15]

I love when people go into something knowing a person is full of s*** & still feels the need to call them on it. When JQ said he was doing all these things w/the fans' interests/wants at heart, you should've known nothing he said was worht the paper it's printed on.

Nothing wrong with a little hope. I don't hate everything Joe Q has done and it wasn't so much him that made me doubt as when I heard Miller was writing it - I knew then any chance of an objective story would be out the window. And I don't think comiserating with fellow fans about disliking something is calling someone out on it but to each his own.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I didn't mean you were calling him out on his actions, but rather on the lies he told regarding them.

 

[drewr15]

I didn't mean you were calling him out on his actions, but rather on the lies he told regarding them.

Well again I don't think that saying I was disappointed in something is really calling someone out. I'm not approaching him and demanding an explanation or anything to Joe or anyone at Marvel, just saying that I'm disappointed in how bad the series is. No more than this whole thread is calling out JMS as much as just complaining about how we don't like the stories lately. To me there's a diff but maybe not to you. Not really worth debating or fighting over IMO.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Just a difference in phrasing really. You see "calling someone on their BS" as a more extreme definition than I do. But you're right. This is mainly about voicing dissent. And we have that in spades.
But if you're gonna make bad decisions, don't lie about your reasons for doing so. As I see it, it's an attempt to lure new readers at the expense of alienating old ones.

 

[drewr15]

Just a difference in phrasing really. You see "calling someone on their BS" as a more extreme definition than I do. But you're right. This is mainly about voicing dissent. And we have that in spades.
But if you're gonna make bad decisions, don't lie about your reasons for doing so. As I see it, it's an attempt to lure new readers at the expense of alienating old ones.

Your definitely right there. This whole thing was about getting mainstream attention. I hope it does lead to more comics readership somehow. Just wish i liked the story better. Sorry to hijack this thread.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh, this is all to get new readers and free publicity with such a shocking news worthy event....

But in doing so Pete has:

1.) Flip flopped on issues -doens't seem to be able to figure out where he stands on simple issues.

2.) Forgotten all his life events that have impacted him before and shaped who he is. IT is like his mind has been erased to everything before now.

3.) Put everyone in his life, close or not, in great danger for the sake of "Iron Man" all of the sudden....

4.) forgotten how to think and reason.

5.) Totally forgotten everything that has always driven him.



I mean, come on now....it is so absurd. Unless he is not himself and is some clone, or has been brainwashed....a lot of his actions lately are just poor writing that some smuck must've overlooked and ok'd to glorify some extra issue sales at the expense of many more long-term others.

 

[Chris Wallace]

You left out:
Abandoned everything that endeared him to readers in the first place.
And as for flip-flopping, to me it's more of a failure to think beforehand. He switched sides based on facts which had always been available to him, & questions he never bothered to ask. He never once questioned Tony's motives despite the fact that the whole thing didn't sit right with him. He just did what he was told. If he can see it was wrong now he should've been able to see it then. Goliath shouldn't have had to die for it to be clear that the Thor clone was a bad idea. That's as bad as if MJ died & then he thought "Oh-I shouldn't have unmasked."

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Because he's become a (see my sig)?

Exactly. I mean come on, collecting samples of Thor's hair from his couch and then hanging onto them for years? Please.

Millar's just writing an Ultimates story and slapping it into the 616 universe.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Hmmm-hadn't thought of it that way. But then the Ultimates are more government lapdogs than superheroes, & Tony's being the biggest lapdog in the world right now.

 

[Arach Knight]

I hope it does lead to more comics readership somehow. Just wish i liked the story better. Sorry to hijack this thread.

The problem with these shock tactics, is that they only endure, as long as the actual shock. Long term readers are rarely gained by these events, and in some cases, it costs Marvel previous long term readership. It also alienates long term fans, who would like to get back into the books, but find that the stories and characters have grown so convoluted since their last encounter with them, that it is impossible to make sense of what is going on. That is the sole blessing of the Ultimate line of books. I will side track with this a little bit, but i'll turn to Nintendo as an example. With the wii, they didn't craft a super powerful machine, or even a machine as powerful as the competition. They went for simplicity, so that it would be more inviting (the same formula used in creating their very successful Nintendo DS). Marvel had the right idea, by introducing the Ultimate line. it gave way to old characters, with new situations and no convoluted continuity to deal with. However, Marvel mistakenly thinks that they can some how gain new readers with the core material, by doing drastic things.

If Marvel is to be truly successful, they must utilize the Ultimate line to bring in new readers, who will in turn want to know character history, and thus seek out older or core titles. There second focus, should be the simplification of the current core books, so that former readers find it easier to return to the books. DC has done a brilliant job with this, by utilizing their crisis idea, to clean up continuity mistakes, and thus present more marketable versions of their long standing characters. They even took a page from Marvel, by introducing the All Star line, which utilizes the same non-continuity platform, as Marvel's Ultimate line. DC has just done a better job of making that a companion to fortifying their lines (All star and the core books) where as Marvel sort of uses Ultimates as a crutch, while they frantically thrash about with their core titles.

 

[drewr15]

The problem with these shock tactics, is that they only endure, as long as the actual shock. Long term readers are rarely gained by these events, and in some cases, it costs Marvel previous long term readership. It also alienates long term fans, who would like to get back into the books, but find that the stories and characters have grown so convoluted since their last encounter with them, that it is impossible to make sense of what is going on. That is the sole blessing of the Ultimate line of books. I will side track with this a little bit, but i'll turn to Nintendo as an example. With the wii, they didn't craft a super powerful machine, or even a machine as powerful as the competition. They went for simplicity, so that it would be more inviting (the same formula used in creating their very successful Nintendo DS). Marvel had the right idea, by introducing the Ultimate line. it gave way to old characters, with new situations and no convoluted continuity to deal with. However, Marvel mistakenly thinks that they can some how gain new readers with the core material, by doing drastic things.

If Marvel is to be truly successful, they must utilize the Ultimate line to bring in new readers, who will in turn want to know character history, and thus seek out older or core titles. There second focus, should be the simplification of the current core books, so that former readers find it easier to return to the books. DC has done a brilliant job with this, by utilizing their crisis idea, to clean up continuity mistakes, and thus present more marketable versions of their long standing characters. They even took a page from Marvel, by introducing the All Star line, which utilizes the same non-continuity platform, as Marvel's Ultimate line. DC has just done a better job of making that a companion to fortifying their lines (All star and the core books) where as Marvel sort of uses Ultimates as a crutch, while they frantically thrash about with their core titles.

AND YET THEY STILL CAN'T GET ******* WONDER WOMAN OUT ON A REGULAR SCHEDULE! Otherwise I agree with you.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Because he's never been the type to just swallow what was put in front of him. And I said it nullifes the defenses. If he's able to question & explore Tony's motives now he was able to do it then, & he should've.

its called blind faith.. it happens...

 

[fangrl06]

its called blind faith.. it happens...

This is out of nowhere, but I really love your avatar.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

thank you i love it alot too , hoping to do my own animated music video for it someday

 

[Flint Marko]

Used to be one of mine too...talking the older days when Micheline was writing Iron Man. Loved that book.

Same with spider-man, when Micheline was writing it....
He and Stan Lee are both of my favorite writers.

 

[Chris Wallace]

its called blind faith.. it happens...

I know. It just seems to me that a man who's experienced what he's experienced wouldn't be prone to blind faith. ESPECIALLY IF IT DIDN'T FEEL RIGHT.

 

[Arach Knight]

Blind faith? I'll have to call BS on that one. He was convinced by the highly dated perspective of his hyper aged Aunt May. He was all willing to to go into hiding, even after Tony's plea for his support. But Aunt May gave him this pep talk about the world feeling like she would, when she first found out that Peter was Spider-Man. However, even with her little cheer session, Peter should have known better. Venom made his life hell, for years, until they finally called a truce, and even that didn't work out because Peter double crossed Venom eventually. If Peter could double cross somebody, what would make him think that other folks couldn't equally as f*** him over? If Venom gave him so much grief with his identity, what made him think it was even remotely a good idea to publicly reveal his identity? His own home town has a penchant for mostly hating or not trusting Spider-Man, thanks to the Daily Bugle, which Spider-Man used to work for. On top of that, he saw what happened to Matt Murdock, who got jailed for being the Daredevil. All signs pointed to the fact that Peter just plain, flat out knew better. This wasn't blind faith...just bad writing. Calling it blind faith is just excuse making for Spider-Man's editorial staff and writers.

 

[Chris Wallace]

But here we're not talking about just the unmasking itself, but hooking up w/Tony & the pro-regs in the first place. That was blind faith. Now bad writing is making it seem like somehow, the memory of cradling Gwen's lifeless body in his arms could be overpowered by anything anyone had to say. And again, after all the crap May went through at the hands of his enemies, she should know better too.