The Amazing Spider-Man Moviehole scoops details on both scripts...

[Jennifer Walters]

It seems like there was two different scripts. Therefore I'm sure if 4's script sucked. Nothing in the reboot's script is based around 4's otherwise it wouldn't be a better script now would it?

 

[Kanon]

There is no way we can get a "gritty and good" Spider-Man movie.

I didn't even know how to write that sentence

 

[Reikowolf]

It should also be pointed out:
- Sam wasn't happy with the script from first draft (Vanderbilts), but Sony was and hired him to use his ideas to spawn the new franchise.
- Sony HAD given the film the greenlight, and the delay and subsequent shelving occured only because Sam kicked up a stink about the script again and how he was promised full creative control (the article says that Sony reminded him he was nothing more than a "hired gun").

I'm so happy he walked.

I'm also happy that Sony has the common sense to reboot instead of continue the hole they dug in Spider-Man 3

 

[Dark_Lord]

PS.

I think it might be offensive to call it Raimi's Spider-Man 4, as he did walk for a reason. He didn't like the story ideas and changes.

Sony's Spider-Man 4 sounds more fitting.

I also feel that, although he is responsible for making it, that Spider-Man 3 was spoiled by Sony judging by the decisions they were making for Spider-Man 4

From what I understand, the only thing Sony about Spider-Man 4 was going to be Black Cat, which they turned into Vulturess because Raimi, apparently, didn't want Black Cat. I don't think it was Sony that wanted Vulture at the Bugle or that wanted the kid.

Anyway...It doesn't really matter now. All we can do, is hope for a great Spider-Man movie.

 

[spider-neil]

those script points for SM4 could be damage control from sony to get everyone on their side. I wont forgive sony for forcing venom on sam at a time when spidey's star was at its highest.

 

[FrostBite]

Sorry Bill, but it just sounds like you are a jaded Raimi hater who would never blame the precious higher-ups. Which... they are to blame here, much more so then Raimi.

Basically for SM4:
- Vulturess was added in the script, at the request of the studio.
- Vulturess was a retooled version of Black Cat.
- Script was apparently pure crap.
- Raimi had lost hope in the project and walked.
- The studio also wanted to add a third villain.
- Anne Hathaway was gone from the project late last year (my guess is when Sony turned the Black Cat into the Vulturess).

All of these point to the studio. Instead of waiting for a script the director and co. actually liked, they added a villain the director (and fans) never would have wanted, cut out an existing one (Black Cat) probably to stop inevitable comparisons with a certain winged rodents villain, wanted to add even more villains, and even drove an actress away.

Blame Raimi as you wish, but after the third film I've seen the unsurpassed amount of creative invasion Sony wants to exercise when it comes to this property.

The only two ideas I can even see there that may be related to Raimi are... Vulture being the editor of the daily bugle, and Peter and MJ having a baby. While you may not like one (or both) of those, they certainly aren't film ruining or scoff worthy at the mention unlike... Vulturess. Raimi knew the script that others had written was terrible... which is why he wouldn't stop until he had the right one.

Sony on the other hand... well, they just wanted to push forward, regardless of quality. I hope everyone enjoys The Dark Spider, because personally, I am not looking to forward to such a blatant attempt at cashing in on "Teh Darkness!!!!" reboot craze.

I'll give it a shot, but Raimi did some amazing things with this franchise, and is an inherently competent film maker despite inaccuracies to the book. I can only hope that this script is honestly good, and that the right team signs on.

 

[Reikowolf]

/\ here here Spider-Neil

The Vulture was a good choice for a villain, and the child arc could have been an interesting direction and a good way to end the Sam arc, with the birth of May Parker.

Vulture at the bugle is the only thing I would have contested, DL, let's hope the reboot is good

But you're right

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Hahaha. Me a Raimi Hater? I LOVE Raimi. I own all the Evil Dead trilogy and adored Drag Me to Hell (I think it was the best horror film of last year). I think he's a genius, but his Spider-Man films left alot to be desired.

He gets as much blame for the cluster**** that became Spider-Man 4. He was being a yes man. He wasn't standing up for himself. He'd already set the film down on a tried and true been there path. Sony just made it worst with their additions.

 

[TheScarecrow]

From what I understand, the only thing Sony about Spider-Man 4 was going to be Black Cat, which they turned into Vulturess because Raimi, apparently, didn't want Black Cat. I don't think it was Sony that wanted Vulture at the Bugle or that wanted the kid.

It would be the opposite. Sam came *this* close to using Black Cat in Spider-man 2.

What would have been Sam's ideas were:
- Vulture at the Bugle.
- MJ and Pete having a kid.
- Black Cat.

The rest would have been Sony's ideas. Now, Vulture at the Bugle isn't an issue. Ra's Al Ghul never trained Batman and Scarecrow was never head doctor at Arkham Asylum - people forgave those "mistakes" fairly easily. The baby is the real pickle here - but we're still not sure how it would have been done. My guess is that a story involving the Vulture would involve age in some way, and I'm guessing this is how the baby would be involved. I daresay The Vulture was plotting something to do with the baby. Also, there was no indication Raimi had intended to make The Vulture close to Peter - quite the opposite. Every story we've heard on the script basically said Vulture was a bit of a bastard, even the ones which mentioned him being at the Bugle.

 

[Crook]

The Vulturess idea was crap, but so is raising a baby and making Vulture the DB editor. Both sides are not innocent here. Even if one conceded to the other, terrible ideas were afloat.

Again, THAT is what you all wanted?

 

[spider-neil]

having said all that having a 'dark spidey' with kraven and lizard (rather than the vermin) would be pretty sweet.

 

[FrostBite]

Hahaha. Me a Raimi Hater? I LOVE Raimi. I own all the Evil Dead trilogy and adored Drag Me to Hell (I think it was the best horror film of last year). I think he's a genius, but his Spider-Man films left alot to be desired.

He gets as much blame for the cluster**** that became Spider-Man 4. He was being a yes man. He wasn't standing up for himself. He'd already set the film down on a tried and true been there path. Sony just made it worst with their additions.

Actually, I applaud the man for doing just that. Regardless of how bad the quality was it would have made millions. Rather than rush it with Sony's ideas in place to meet the deadline, Raimi walked. Spider-man 4, regardless if terrible or not, would have continued his career substantially. Rather than be the yes man as you claim... he did quite the opposite and walked away from a heavily successful franchise just to keep his integrity and not compromise his creative vision yet again.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

He didn't stand up for himself by walking away. He chickened out. He could of took reigns and pointed out that if it weren't for him they wouldn't have this successful franchise, but no, he walked away, coincidentally saving the franchise in the process by letting the better reboot script get through.

The man's a genius, but he just wasn't cutting it anymore when it came to Spidey.

 

[NinjaCarm]

If they mean "dark and gritty" like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1990 then I'm all for it. The movie will then be grounded in reality folks, not cheap wooden la la acting land.

Spider-Man still needs to be portrayed correctly SONY, the humor he instills is his balance in life. He's a quirky teen, but not a pushover *****. Get that aspect right, with funny quips in costume, then we will be fine.

 

[Vile]

I love how people applaud Raimi for walking on Spidey 4 yet defend his pile of **** that is Spidey 3.

 

[david icke]

With the 'Dark Knight' ref , I just hope it means a serious drama set in a more realistic world, not that Spidey should be a grim character. Sure, there are many depressing aspects to SM comics, an issue would usually end with PP bemoaning his current lot in life, but Spider-man should be recognisably a humourous character, using that to get through his problems.
The first Spidey story was pretty 'gritty' and realistic, if they are going with something close to a 'real world' take, it would be cool to see Spidey go the tv star route as in the original origin, probably what would happen if a teenager got superpowers.
In fact that's what the original Lee/Ditko stories were about, giving powers to a normal kid with real life probelms in real situations. So the 'Dark Knight' ref may not be so off the mark, as that is the most recogniably real world superhero flick.
Make it a 2 and a half hour epic, 1st hour for the Amazing Fantasy origin done ultra faithfully, yes, he must discover his agility and sticking powers jumping out the way of a car, I missed that bit from the 1st movie.

 

[Reikowolf]

He didn't stand up for himself by walking away. He chickened out. He could of took reigns and pointed out that if it weren't for him they wouldn't have this successful franchise, but no, he walked away, coincidentally saving the franchise in the process by letting the better reboot script get through.

The man's a genius, but he just wasn't cutting it anymore when it came to Spidey.

I completely disagree with you on this one.

He compromised with the Studio on Spider-Man 3, so your argument that he chickened out doesn't hold up. He gave it a shot and found it didn't work when the studio became too involved. He agreed to Spider-Man 4 pending full creative control. If he walked it's because Sony changed the deal around.

He gave it a shot, on their terms (SM3) and tried to fix it his way, they would not have it.

They basically told him, we own the ball, you play our way or we find someone else to play with.

Whether the franchise is saved, is yet to be determined. I'm hopeful as it will be a fresh start.

If anyone chickened out, it's Sony. They dug their own hole by pushing Raimi too much, instead of following through with their crappy ideas, they decide to reboot.

With any luck, they have learned their lesson and won't push the new creative team too much.

 

[Reikowolf]

With the 'Dark Knight' ref , I just hope it means a serious drama set in a more realistic world, not that Spidey should be a grim character. Sure, there are many depressing aspects to SM comics, an issue would usually end with PP bemoaning his current lot in life, but Spider-man should be recognisably a humourous character, using that to get through his problems.
The first Spidey story was pretty 'gritty' and realistic, if they are going with something close to a 'real world' take, it would be cool to see Spidey go the tv star route as in the original origin, probably what would happen if a teenager got superpowers.
In fact that's what the original Lee/Ditko stories were about, giving powers to a normal kid with real life probelms in real situations. So the 'Dark Knight' ref may not be so off the mark, as that is the most recogniably real world superhero flick.
Make it a 2 and a half hour epic, 1st hour for the Amazing Fantasy origin done ultra faithfully, yes, he must discover his agility and sticking powers jumping out the way of a car, I missed that bit from the 1st movie.

well said

 

[david icke]

I love how people applaud Raimi for walking on Spidey 4 yet defend his pile of **** that is Spidey 3.

I love how folk would have rather Raimi walked out on SM3 so that we got a worse movie, under an inexperienced spider-man director who did not have the full trust of the actors involved, to tie up the plot strands of SM1 and 2.
Whether you liked SM3 or not, this is what would probably have happened, this is an entirely different situation. He doesn't have his own story to finish here, with that baby plot it seems that they were stretching it out too far and didn't know where to go with it, so the story was finished.

 

[Dragon]

PS.

I think it might be offensive to call it Raimi's Spider-Man 4, as he did walk for a reason. He didn't like the story ideas and changes.

Sony's Spider-Man 4 sounds more fitting.

I also feel that, although he is responsible for making it, that Spider-Man 3 was spoiled by Sony judging by the decisions they were making for Spider-Man 4

Yeah. The thing we have to note here is that Sony wanted to crap all over Spidey 4. Raimi wanted to do it right. So Spidey being left in the hands of people who wanted The Vultress and crammed Venom into Spidey 3 isn't a good thing. Even moreso since they're now trying to square-peg Spidey into the round-hole of Dark Knight. Them saying they're going with a "better" script isn't saying much since they don't seem to know what a good script is.

 

[Reikowolf]

I love how people applaud Raimi for walking on Spidey 4 yet defend his pile of **** that is Spidey 3.

Cut Spider-Man 3

I bet you there is a solid 90min movie there.

The only Raimi idea I would have cut out would have been the dance number.

Sony ideas to cut out would have been

Venom, New Goblin Design, amnesia harry (result of giving more time for Venom/ Eddie).

 

[Dragon]

I love how people applaud Raimi for walking on Spidey 4 yet defend his pile of **** that is Spidey 3.

You mean the movie that he didn't want to make?

 

[Crook]

If they mean "dark and gritty" like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1990 then I'm all for it. The movie will then be grounded in reality folks, not cheap wooden la la acting land.

This.

I highly doubt the humor of this franchise will be wiped off completely because they're avoiding the fluff. It's so ingrained with the character that it's impossible to avoid if you remain the least bit faithful to the source. TMNT is a great example because it handled the gritty nature very well but did not dismiss the fun aspects of the characters.

 

[Reikowolf]

Yeah TMNT 1990 held the standard for me until SM2

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I love how even though Raimi was clearly stretching his story and doing the same thing he had always done with the villain. Sony's still the bad guy here and fully to blame. Raimi and Sony are both to blame for what was surely to be the Batman and Robin of the Spidey franchise.

Yet, now when we have clear proof that Sony wants the best for the franchise? That's still wrong. So what should they have done because giving full control to Raimi didn't seem like it'd have been a good path. He was determined to do the same things with Vulture that he had already done with GG, Ock, and Sandman.

Sony did right this time.