Movies considered "classics" that aren't that great

The Manchurian Candidate
Dr. Stranglelove
Casablanca
King Kong

I disagree about MC. It's so perfect. Angela Landsbury, yo.

Strangelove I agree is super overrated. I will give it credit only for "the time" it came out, but it's not funny at all and there are other old movies that are still funny.

Never watched Casablanca.

I agree on King Kong. I think it's a "you had to be there" or a "you had to see it when you were young".
I don't see what the hubbub is about, except, again, in a historical context.


As far as disliking older movies for the stilted, unnatural acting, I think that's like disliking old Sci-Fi based on the inferior special effects.

That was how it was done back then. Naturalism didn't become mainstream until the 60's and 70's. It wasn't an expectation of an audience of the 30's or 40's.
In fact if they were exposed to it, I could imagine them complaining "It didn't feel like a "MOOVIE". It was just like a lame newsreel. Boring like everyday life. And people talked over eachother, and mumbled, and there was no "bigger-than-life" drama to their actions."
 
it has some nice bits in it, but generally it's badly paced. Long films can be slow yet well paced(2001), but taxi driver was not. I found the whole narrative very unconvincing, and found myself not caring for any of the characters or the outcome. It lacked any emotion, or something to engage, very bland. The whole thing seemed very bitty, without any purpose or direction. Just going through the motions that didn't flow.
You hit it perfectly...
 
it has some nice bits in it, but generally it's badly paced. Long films can be slow yet well paced(2001), but taxi driver was not. I found the whole narrative very unconvincing, and found myself not caring for any of the characters or the outcome. It lacked any emotion, or something to engage, very bland. The whole thing seemed very bitty, without any purpose or direction. Just going through the motions that didn't flow.

i think it's more of an emotion-based edit style rather than story or rhythem. i don't know, i see what you're saying, but i saw the film at a really key point in my adolscence when the themes of loneliness and rage really hit me. so it has a really sentimental value for me. that and the first scene with harvey keitel as the pimp is priceless, "i had a horse once, in coney island...she got hit by a car."
 
i think it's more of an emotion-based edit style rather than story or rhythem. i don't know, i see what you're saying, but i saw the film at a really key point in my adolscence when the themes of loneliness and rage really hit me. so it has a really sentimental value for me. that and the first scene with harvey keitel as the pimp is priceless, "i had a horse once, in coney island...she got hit by a car."

I saw it when i was about.....16-ish. I didn't like the characters, found the very basics of the story were good,but were executed in such a way that put me off. The supposed 'shocking' side of jodie foster's character didn't phase me in the slightest, I felt it was more a cry for attention as easy publicity. I couldn't get the motivation of Travis, felt the whole character and film were empty, but unintetionally so.
 
Ah, fresh meat for the grinder :D



What you fail to realize is that film, and the world for that matter, did not being the moment you were born. Most critics are fairly older than you are, there's a certain nostalgia and value that go along with these films that you are not privy too. Also what you fail to realize most classics, at least according to the AFI list, also take into account the impact it's had on film, not just as how well it stands today. For example Citizen Kane employed a number of cinematic techiques that are conisidered standard today, that back then were not such as coated lenses. Also another bit you seem not privy to is that acting is an art and like all art it goes through phrases. In the beginning of film it was overly dramatic and was based on facial expressions, most obviously due to the fact that the first films were silent films. After that period in the early part of the talkies, films were very dramatic much resembling it's theater counter-part, as well as films going through a period of showing a more idealized household and situations, as time goes on, and we shift to the now, it becomes more "real"(and I use this term hesitantly since it a very misleading term" and less dramatic. Who knows where acting as an art will go in the next 20-30 years, and what the kids of tommorrow will say of our films. Also another point to bring up is that you grew up with film and that many of the things you take for granted could not be done some time ago. For example, let's take the quick cut, of someone being in one place and then cutting to them being at another place, we're so use to film, that we immediately realize they must have walked from one place to another. But the original film-makers would have to show all this action so people will understand what's happening, people would not have been able to process a film with the amount of cuts they have today, this has been a hundred year process. So please keep this in mind when judging these "older" films. Also keep



Again, you been spoiled by video games and MTV, that your mind can barely sit still to take in the wonderful imagery and tension that John Frankenheimer is setting up. The original Manchurian Canidate is about fear, control, and paranoia, how does one convey those properly outside of making a slow film since these are slow-acting things? Personally I think the brainwashing scenes are perhaps some of hte coolest scenes committed to celluloids, especially with the old ladies :D



First off you have to enjoy satire to appriciate this film as well as understand the context of the film, if you know nothing of the cold war, then you'll not find this funny, how could you? As for dragging, my god it's such a funny and awesome film, every bit leads to a bigger bit and eventually the end. I'm going chalk this up to your ignorance on the subject.



Again your ignorance on the subject, go to my first response...



The film is hollow as can be however if you can't see the significance of the first hollywood special effects bonaza, then you got bigger problems. Also did it ever occur to you that King Kong isn't shakespeare? People see king Kong to see a big ape, not to sit through 3 hours of pretencious story telling.





I think your just an ignorant little kid who knows nothing about film :) However, if you are just 14 or 15 years old then that's fine before highschool or mayber earlier I don't remember I use to hate anything made before the 80s for those exact same reasons. Eventually and hopefully, you'll grow up and realize why these films are good. However that doesn't mean you have to like them, on the contrary everyone has there opinion. I personally agree King Kong (1933) has a terrible story and is ridiculously hollow but that's the point. I also can't get into Taxi Driver, however I Can see why it's considered a great film. There comes a time when I wish people would realize just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not your cup of tea.


lol i dont even watch mtv. I think the point Im trying to make is what people are saying why I dont like them: is because they don't fit in today's standards. A lof of movies nowadays are more realistic in the their acting terms and are more grittier and go at a faster pase. Movies back in the day just dont fit in today's standards and I dont think thats a bad thing I just think thats evolution. But I do agree that they were considered classics back in their day because you didnt see movies like that. Nowadays they just seem non believable and we're so use to things that go beyond the originals. And it has nothing to do with Ingorance I got the point of Mancurian Candidate but there were some scenes in there that were just incredibally boring and made the films seem to go on and on.
 
people these days don't like surrealism etc, and like samey movies, hence re-makes and lots of films that are very similar. It's actually a lowering of standards for modern audiences...
 
I disagree about MC. It's so perfect. Angela Landsbury, yo.

Strangelove I agree is super overrated. I will give it credit only for "the time" it came out, but it's not funny at all and there are other old movies that are still funny.

Never watched Casablanca.

I agree on King Kong. I think it's a "you had to be there" or a "you had to see it when you were young".
I don't see what the hubbub is about, except, again, in a historical context.


As far as disliking older movies for the stilted, unnatural acting, I think that's like disliking old Sci-Fi based on the inferior special effects.

That was how it was done back then. Naturalism didn't become mainstream until the 60's and 70's. It wasn't an expectation of an audience of the 30's or 40's.In fact if they were exposed to it, I could imagine them complaining "It didn't feel like a "MOOVIE". It was just like a lame newsreel. Boring like everyday life. And people talked over eachother, and mumbled, and there was no "bigger-than-life" drama to their actions."

I completely agree with you on that on the acting. I think that's one of the reasons why some fils are considered classics because they have that "vintage" acting that adds to it. Movies really werent ment to be viewed as realistic but rather there own little world that was different then ours.
 
I think your just an ignorant little kid who knows nothing about film :) However, if you are just 14 or 15 years old then that's fine before highschool or mayber earlier I don't remember I use to hate anything made before the 80s for those exact same reasons. Eventually and hopefully, you'll grow up and realize why these films are good. However that doesn't mean you have to like them, on the contrary everyone has there opinion. I personally agree King Kong (1933) has a terrible story and is ridiculously hollow but that's the point. I also can't get into Taxi Driver, however I Can see why it's considered a great film. There comes a time when I wish people would realize just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not your cup of tea.

Yah, or he just has an opinion that differs from yours:huh: ?
 
people these days don't like surrealism etc, and like samey movies, hence re-makes and lots of films that are very similar. It's actually a lowering of standards for modern audiences...


If he saw lynch it'd blow his mind :(
 
lol i dont even watch mtv. I think the point Im trying to make is what people are saying why I dont like them: is because they don't fit in today's standards. A lof of movies nowadays are more realistic in the their acting terms and are more grittier and go at a faster pase. Movies back in the day just dont fit in today's standards and I dont think thats a bad thing I just think thats evolution. But I do agree that they were considered classics back in their day because you didnt see movies like that. Nowadays they just seem non believable and we're so use to things that go beyond the originals. And it has nothing to do with Ingorance I got the point of Mancurian Candidate but there were some scenes in there that were just incredibally boring and made the films seem to go on and on.

I'll apologize for my rudeness mainly because I forget I'm on an internet message board, and the humor is somewhat lost in the translation since I forget... I'm not with a group of people we're we just go back and forth with nonsense insults. However, I suppose we'll disagree, since I'd find it arrogant to presume that what is now is better than before since in a few years this shall be the before....
 
I saw it when i was about.....16-ish. I didn't like the characters, found the very basics of the story were good,but were executed in such a way that put me off. The supposed 'shocking' side of jodie foster's character didn't phase me in the slightest, I felt it was more a cry for attention as easy publicity. I couldn't get the motivation of Travis, felt the whole character and film were empty, but unintetionally so.

i don't really think you're supposed to understand travis' motivation, if anyone truly does they probably share his psychosis. but i just felt very close to a lot of it, how he just feels like he's in a hole and he keeps talking about getting out of it, but everything he does gets him deeper in. he wants to stop feeling lonely, but he writes letters to his parents saying he can't see them. he wants a girl, but he sabotages the relationship before it even begins.
the thing with jodie foster's character never seemed like it was supposed to be shocking, that kind of thing was what was happening in new york at that time.
 
I'll apologize for my rudeness mainly because I forget I'm on an internet message board, and the humor is somewhat lost in the translation since I forget... I'm not with a group of people we're we just go back and forth with nonsense insults. However, I suppose we'll disagree, since I'd find it arrogant to presume that what is now is better than before since in a few years this shall be the before....

It's ok I wasn't offended. we just have opposing views. and I'm not saying that movies are better then they were. A lot of movies nowadays suck I can only think of a handful of movies from this decade that are actually good. But I think movies nowadays have more realistic acting and events where as movies back in the days werent. But I understand why though since that is how people acted back then and I think it adds more of that classic feel to the movie. The problem I have with older movies and especially ones that many people consider to be classics is that a lof of them can just be incredibally boring at times. Some scenes just keep going on and on and really don't do much to develop the plot.
 
Casablanca: Now I do like this movie but Im using this to form another example: Acting. The movie doesnt get boring and has a strong plot but I noticed in a lot of the older films that the acting just isn't entirely believable. There is never pauses and it just seems they are forcing the lines out and talk really fast (like they quickly say them so they dont forget them).

Film is an art form. Not all art that is created is supposed to create the illusion of reality. For one, the term realistic is subjective. For another, not all performances are trying to replicate real or naturalistic expression.

You make the assert that "believable" acting is superior to "unrealistic" performances. Do you judge Johnny Depp's performance of Jack Sparrow or Willy Wonka with the same criteria that you judged Matt Dameon's performance in The Departed? Or do you use the same standards judging Sacha Baron Cohen's performance as Borat to Philip Seymour Hoffman's performance as Capote?

Jack Nicholson, Al Pachino and Robert DiNero are all considered the best present day actors, but none of their performances can be misconstrued as "real".
 
It's ok I wasn't offended. we just have opposing views. and I'm not saying that movies are better then they were. A lot of movies nowadays suck I can only think of a handful of movies from this decade that are actually good. But I think movies nowadays have more realistic acting and events where as movies back in the days werent. But I understand why though since that is how people acted back then and I think it adds more of that classic feel to the movie. The problem I have with older movies and especially ones that many people consider to be classics is that a lof of them can just be incredibally boring at times. Some scenes just keep going on and on and really don't do much to develop the plot.

REALITY IS SUBJECTIVE! It's as subjective as the terms good and bad.

The words realistic and real are misused and misunderstood. The term "Realistic Performance" itself is an oxymoron. Pretend that is real? Reality TV? Yeah because in real life people swap their spouses, and in the real world people are put into houses with complete strangers from opposite social spheres, are followed around with video cameras, and stop to look at the camera and give a running commentary of their feelings and motivations. In real life people also compete on deserted islands for superiority and are granted immunity from tasks and are also followed by video cameras. Basically, capturing reality on film is impossible, because as soon as you put a camera in front of someone they immediately they act for it.
 
The original version of The Manchurian Candidate is brilliant. It's the remake that's boring and hard to watch. Sinatra gave the best performance of his entire career, and Lawrence Harvey's Raymond Shaw is one of the most compelx and terrifying film characters ever. Shame today's ADD genration can't appreciate the film.

As for me, this will be controversial, but I find The French Connection to be somewhat overrated. It's very good. no doubt, but it takes a bit of time to really draw the viewer in. I enjoyed it, but I don't see it as the masterpiece some people see it as.

Also, other than Belushi, I hated Animal House. I'm going to give it a second look though to solidify my opinion. I also thought Beverly Hills Cop sucked.
 
The original version of The Manchurian Candidate is brilliant. It's the remake that's boring and hard to watch. Sinatra gave the best performance of his entire career, and Lawrence Harvey's Raymond Shaw is one of the most compelx and terrifying film characters ever. Shame today's ADD genration can't appreciate the film.

As for me, this will be controversial, but I find The French Connection to be somewhat overrated. It's very good. no doubt, but it takes a bit of time to really draw the viewer in. I enjoyed it, but I don't see it as the masterpiece some people see it as.

Also, other than Belushi, I hated Animal House. I'm going to give it a second look though to solidify my opinion. I also thought Beverly Hills Cop sucked.


Have you seen FC2? It's interesting in the completely different approach it takes in telling the story and at the same time continuing the story of the first one. The first is the nuts and bolts of police work and the second one is a character study of popeye.
 
The original version of The Manchurian Candidate is brilliant. It's the remake that's boring and hard to watch. Sinatra gave the best performance of his entire career, and Lawrence Harvey's Raymond Shaw is one of the most compelx and terrifying film characters ever. Shame today's ADD genration can't appreciate the film.

As for me, this will be controversial, but I find The French Connection to be somewhat overrated. It's very good. no doubt, but it takes a bit of time to really draw the viewer in. I enjoyed it, but I don't see it as the masterpiece some people see it as.

Also, other than Belushi, I hated Animal House. I'm going to give it a second look though to solidify my opinion. I also thought Beverly Hills Cop sucked.
I agree with everything you said.
 
Have you seen FC2? It's interesting in the completely different approach it takes in telling the story and at the same time continuing the story of the first one. The first is the nuts and bolts of police work and the second one is a character study of popeye.

No, I've been meaning to. I got the special edition of both films about four years ago and didn't get around to seeing the first one until early December. But it's on my list of films I have to see.
 
Most movies that critics consider classic like Gone With The Wind, Citizen Kane, Ben Hur, Casablanca I have never and probably won't ever see.

I was born in 1976 and somehow movies made before I was born don't interest me.
 
Most movies that critics consider classic like Gone With The Wind, Citizen Kane, Ben Hur, Casablanca I have never and probably won't ever see.

I was born in 1976 and somehow movies made before I was born don't interest me.

You're missing out.
 
You're missing out.

Again I agree.

It's one thing to be ignorant and not know, but it is entirely another to choose to be stupid, or in other words to remain ignorant. Don't be so myopic. You do know that the movie gods weren't waiting up in heaven for you to be born before they bestowed us with good movies.
 

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