Goddessreicho said:The power recall of Rogue was a good idea. Good job.
But let me saw this. It is obvious that you are: a casual comic fan, a hard core movie fan, a Rogue fan and an Jean fan.
Before you write again. Get a stronger grasp on the other characters. Ignore their movie counterparts. This is the problem with the first two movies. Singer washed thier personalies away. The only one that was remotely close was Wolverine,and that was because Singer could identiy with him.
Your Storm needs a ton of work. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. But wow. That wasn't Storm. And she was unreconizable in your x4 too. Get some old X-men or X-men Xtreme. That's when Storm was at her Stormiest. Especially when she fought Emma or when she was learning how to walk again.
Bobby, Logan, and some of the others needs work too.
Good plot, just work on pace and characterizations.
Goddessreicho said:The power recall of Rogue was a good idea. Good job.
But let me saw this. It is obvious that you are: a casual comic fan, a hard core movie fan, a Rogue fan and an Jean fan.
Before you write again. Get a stronger grasp on the other characters. Ignore their movie counterparts. This is the problem with the first two movies. Singer washed thier personalies away. The only one that was remotely close was Wolverine,and that was because Singer could identiy with him.
Your Storm needs a ton of work. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. But wow. That wasn't Storm. And she was unreconizable in your x4 too. Get some old X-men or X-men Xtreme. That's when Storm was at her Stormiest. Especially when she fought Emma or when she was learning how to walk again.
Bobby, Logan, and some of the others needs work too.
Good plot, just work on pace and characterizations.
TKing said:Cool, it was fun to read Rogue absorbing and using all those powers. Would be cool to see those effects in a movie. Good job, as usual.![]()
Goddessreicho said:First and foremost if you feel the need to check my spelling, then you just may have far to much time on your hands. Second of all the movies and Evolution changed the characters and mostly not for the good. Third the closest fans got to watching the characters was TAS. I don't know how you found Ororo whiney in TAS or Evo, but to each his own.
Goddessreicho said:First and foremost if you feel the need to check my spelling, then you just may have far to much time on your hands. Second of all the movies and Evolution changed the characters and mostly not for the good. Third the closest fans got to watching the characters was TAS. I don't know how you found Ororo whiney in TAS or Evo, but to each his own.
Here's an easy way to characterize Storm without ever getting it wrong:
Headstrong
Leader
Doesn't take sht from anyone for any reason
Aloof
Look I wrote this a while back and and even TKing gave me a good review. Pacing is making sure that things have a natural sequential order and aren't bombing the audience. You had alot of happening very quickly. Let your characters react to something before you move on.
Look this is a scene in a rewrite for Ntcrawler. It takes the place of the infirmary scene that was shown. Notice Jean's character. Those who see my post know that I hate Jean. With a passion. There are no redeeming qualities about any of her reincarnations. Even Evo annoyed me. I'll get into that later.
But just look:
Infirmary scene:
Ororo walks towards the bed in the middle of the medical bay. The sole light in the room illuminates the body of the woman in the bed.
Ororo slowly comes up to the body in quiet reverence.
Ororo: Jean. [Holds her hand] What were you thinking? How could you leave us like that? Why didnt you let us save you? We were supposed to be a team. [raises her voice] A. TEAM. We were in it together. Why couldnt you have faith in us? [Still being very angry with her] Weve always had faith in you? I have always believed in you, sister, [She has tears in her eyes and hugs Jeans upper torso] no matter how much I hated you.
She walks around the table to brush hair out of her face. Ororo sees the tangle mess that it is and finds a brush to begins to brush it. When she hits a snag, Jeans eyes shoot open, and grab Ororos wrist.
Jean opens her eyes, blinks a few times. She sees a near frozen Ororo with her wrist in her hand. She lets go immediately.
Jean: Rory?
Ororo: Jean! [comes up and traces her cheek] Its alright, hun. Everything is alright. Your going to be just fine.
Ororo rushes her friend and gives her a deep and genuine hug. Jean closes her eyes leans into the embrace, and hugs her back. They pull apart and Jean looks at Ororo with wonder and bewilderment.
Jean: What happened?
Ororo turns away from Jean. She hugs herself, and looks towards the ceiling with eyes brimming with tears. The muted sounds of heavy rain can be heard even in the subasement. When she composes herself, the rain stops, and she turns around with a worried expression to face Jean.
At this point Jean has sat up. Ororo sits next to her. Both women sit in silence for a few seconds letting their feet dangle over the edge of the bed.
Ororo: I...What do you remember, J?
Jean looks at Ororo at first with a blank stare, very slowly her expression changes from empty to that of unbridled fear.
Ororo: We found you at Alkali, and brought you back here. Youve been here, unconscious, for two days.
Jean: I remember looking back at the jet. A mountain of water! So much. It was everywhere, coming in so fast. It caved in on me.
Ororo laces her hand through Jeans. Jean closes her eyes and picks up on flashes of thought that Ororo is projecting. Images of an explosion and fire fly by, screaming voices dust and people panicking are everywhere. In the middle of the dust and scurrying people is a dilapidated sky rise. The point of view zooms in underneath the rubble, dust, scorched beams, broken glass ,and broken bent steal to a whimpering voice. In the dark with a single ray of light that just flicked away is a six year old Ororo Monroe. She is holding a black womans hand. The rest of the body is shrouded in darkness and a puddle of blood is coming out of the shadows. Roughly four or five feet away is the body of a impaled black man. His bloody impaled body is also shrouded in darkness except for his head. His face is stuck in pure raging agony. His eyes are open in horror theres blood coming from his nose and mouth. Hanging around his neck is a broken professional photographers camera. It is a glaring reminder that no warning came for the sudden distraction. The little girl looks at her father and burst out in tears; she automatically wraps herself in a fetal position with her mothers hand. The entire rubble structure begins to shake and buckle. Ororo looks up in time to see it begin to cave in...
Jean sees all of these images, and knows what Ororo sees. Her friend and sister has been there. She knows also what its like to be alone. To have those who have always been around suddenly gone, and both know the pang of having the world cave in.
This also angered Jean. Ororo also had something terrible happen to her, and far earlier as well. She was left to wonder alone, and yet, she had her complete mutation at her disposal since she was six. She got hers when she was twelve, and still struggled with them. Ororo alone could thrive by herself. Jean always lagged behind and constantly needed help. She needed the professor for guidance, she needed Scott for love, and she needed Logan for her feminine pride.
What was the one thing she didnt need. She looked at Ororo with black eyes that resembled an abyss. No, she didnt need Ororo at all.
After all she was nothing more than a marionette, a tool, for Xaviers dream. No one would really miss her.
Ororo was still looking down at her feet.
Jean squints her eyes and rubs her temples. Trying to get into Ororos mind was not an easy task for any sort of telepath. Ororos body was like a lightning rod. It was constantly drawing in energy from all around. Her psyche was the same. It was covered in a sort of static electricity. A psychic trying to get in her mind would have a better time sticking a wet fork in a socket.
Ororo: Jean...are you...are you trying to get in my mind?
Jean laced her hand in Ororos, and squeezes hard. Really hard.
Ororo winced in pain.
Ororo:. What are you doing? [pauses] Ouch Jean, that hurts.
Jean: [laughs at her own antics in a slightly sadistic way] Do you want to know something? Ive always envied your natural defenses. Tell me Rory, did Xavier ever block you. Hold you back. Make it so you couldnt choose what you did with your own power. It must have been really nice not to him walking around in your head. [Italics are said with disdain.]
Ororo: Jean, your still hurting me. What are you talking about?
Jean eyes glow black. In response to Ororos fear, the temperature in the room spikes a few degrees. Theres a fine mist of humid fog that appears.
Jean: Its not a rhetorical question.
Ororo: Jean. Please.
There was another terrifying squeeze.
Ororo answers with tears in her eyes: NO! Alright? No, he didnt hold me back! Please just stop.
Jean leans in and whispers in a deadly soft voice: Teachers pet. Teachers pet.
Ororo: Jean, whats wrong. Just tell me, what is it you want.
Jean: Freedom! [The sound of the word came from a deep and empty place.]
Jean lets go of a shocked Ororo. She slams her against the wall. Ororo takes no time and whitens her eyes to prepare for a fight that she knew deep down would be inevitable. When she allows her self to see the electric patterns that inhibit all things, she was shocked at what she saw in Jean.
Jeans basic components, all the things that make a human being, seemed to be endless. Universal. Limitless.
Before Ororo could wrap herself around this concept she felt the wall behind her slip away and then engulf her. Before the panic set in she takes one final look at Jean and sees something truly out of this world. Jean was surrounded by a wisp of gold and red fire. It was strange because there was no heat. Ororo remembered studying Christianity and Judaism. There was a story about a holy bush. A sign sent from God that was fire but gave the prophet who touched it no burns. As she continued to be surround by the all consuming darkness, she saw the flames spread but burn nothing, and out of Jeans shoulders sprang flaming wings. The wings of a bird made from a near holy power.
Ororo: [Whispers] No, please. Jean, stop. [Outloud] What have you become!
Ororo was thrown to the back of the small space. She felt around on the ground frantically for something to hold to, anything to give her the strength to fight the mind numbing phobia of enclosed spaces. She begins to search blindly on her hands and knees while shaking violently from sheer fear of her situation. After a few terrifying minutes, she finds nothing and gives up. Ororo sat down in the far corner, pulled her knees up to her chest and held her shaking body in this position for what seemed like forever. Tears run down her face as a natural response for the paralyzing fear. The seconds and the minutes that passed meant nothing.
Outside, the weather begins to respond to Ororo in equally terrible ways. Funnels around the Westchester area begin to form, heavy rain is swirled around by winds strong enough to take down dense tree limbs. Thunder and lightning scatter throughout the skyline. The sun had long ago disappeared in dark ominous thick clouds.
Ororo lifts up her head to reveal wild frightened eyes.
Ororo: [in a scared child like voice] Mommy [may be in Swahili, Arabic, or French], where are they? You promised they would find us. Please mommy. Mommy? Whats that smell? Why is it coming from Daddy?
Ororo looks down at her empty hand and sees her mothers slimy decomposing hand. She doesnt know that she is no longer under the rubble with her dead parents for eight days. Ororo buries her head back down.
~X~
Logan heads down into the sub-basement and into the med lab. Once he gets to the door, he stops and sniffs. He tilts his head to the side. It is quiet obvious that something just isnt right.
He approaches the table where Jean lies with long soft strides.
Logan: Jean?
Jeans blinks herself awake.
Jean: Logan...what are you doing here? What am I doing here? [She sits up and hugs herself as if shes cold.]
Logan walks up to stand directly in front of her. He puts his arms around her and pulls her into his embrace.
She returns it. This makes Logan freeze and pull back.
Logan: [takes her by the shoulders gently] Listen Red, you really put us through the wringer. We didnt know what happen to you. Do you have any idea what that was like for me?
Jean gives him a sly but innocent look.
Jean: Tell me about Logan. Tell me everything. [She opens her knees wide enough to fit him in between them. She takes her left leg and slowly slides it up his leg to wrap around his waist. She places her hands on his shoulders to pull herself closer to him so that she can whisper in his ear.] I knew that Xavier lied to you about the base so he could get you to stay.
Logans body stiffens at her statement. Begins to pull away but she tightens her grip on his shoulders to near painful levels. He feels her other leg making the same trip as its twin.
With more strength than should have been possible for her she flips then both back on the table so that she is looking up at him with come hither eyes.
Logan looks off to the side with a question written on his face of how they got in this position so quickly.
Jean: [laughs briefly] We got here this way because you came to see me. Isnt this what you wanted?
She leans in for a soft chase kiss to prove her point, then gracefully pulls back.
Logan hesitates, and furrows his brows. There was something important he was going to ask her. Jeans legs squeeze his waist harder, and even though her hands were around his neck he felt her telekinesis undo his belt buckle.
With caution to the wind, Logan leans in and kisses her hard. She returns the kiss with bruising pressure and rips at his wife beater.
The sound of the tearing thread makes Logan pull up from Jeans neck. He sniffs at the air again and makes the same face as before. This time he recognizes the odd smell emanating from the room. Fear. Pure unadulterated paralyzing fear. Logan looks down at Jean and frowns at her smug look.
Logan sits up and untangles Jeans legs. She makes another attempt to wrap her arms around him and he stops her. He gets of the table and stands very stiff an arms length away. Logan is obviously very bothered. Every time he inhales his agitation grows because of the intense fear smell swirling around in the room.
Logan: Jean, whats going on.
Jean: Well I would think that would be kind of obvious.
Logan runs his hands through his hair and blows out air in frustration.
Logan: Please Jeannie. You dont have to hide anything from me. [He suddenly remembers what he was going to ask her earlier. He digs into his back pocket and brings out Scotts ruby glasses.]
Jean just stares at them with awe.
Logan: Alright Jean, Im going to ask you again. What happened at the Lake? Where is Scott? We found his bike at the Alkali. We need to find him, and you were the last person to see him...[He lets his thought go unfinished.]
Jean keeps her eyes intently on the sunglasses in Logans outstretched hand. She lets out a heart wrenching wail that becomes a whimper. She begins to emit a sense of fear and dread. She looks at Logan with watery eyes and begins to cry.
Jean: Scott... [closes her eyes at the onslaught of random images of the incident] I dont know. He was there, and he felt so warm. I...I saw his eyes. [She looks up at Logan with a brilliant child like smile. He flinches at this. Her face grows worried again.] One minute he was there, and the next... I cant remember. [Her expression suddenly changes to angry. She uses her telekinesis to snatch the glasses from Logan and cuddles them close to her breast. She runs her hands all around them with wonder right before she glares at them. She then uses her telekinesis again to hurl them on the steel wall behind Logan. The glasses land on the floor broken in two with cracks in the lenses.] NO!!! Dammit, no! [She blinks rapidly and looks at Logan with pleading eyes.] Help me...
Logan walks towards her to give her comfort when he suddenly stops, and his ears twitch. He could hear Jeans accelerated heart beat and smell her change of pheromones, but then he could still smell the original fear sent, and this time he heard the other rapid heartbeat. He took another whiff, then glared at Jean.
Jean: [still sniffling] What is it? Whats wrong?
Logan: I smell lemon grass and sandalwood. Wheres Ororo, and why is she terrified?
Jean breaks eye contact and begins to shift uncomfortably. She lowers her head and hugs herself tight.
Jean:[shrugs] I dunno.
Logan: Dammit Jean. Tell me something. You were the last to see Scott and you wont say anything. Ororo is near by and shes terrified and I think you had something to do with it. [shakes her by her shoulders] This isnt the you that I know Jean.
Jean finally looks at him again with dark black eyes and an expression that is a blaze.
Jean: You know NOTHING! If it cant get stabbed by you than you just dont know what to do, do you? [She throws him with her power against the steel door. He dents the door five feet above the floor, and falls down with a sickening crack. He stays on the floor out cold. Jean leaves an eerie silent lab and takes her time to head upstairs to the mansion. After a few minutes of silence Xavier rolls in as Logan begins to wake up.
As the doors open, Xavier rolls in with a stern look on his face.
Xavier: Logan! I thought I could have sworn I said no...Oh no... Logan!
Xavier rolls up to him and places his hand on his wrist pulse. He then takes his head and rubs his temple. Xavier uses telepathy to shout Logans name to rouse him. Logan mummers something as he slowly wakes up.
Logan: wsuhgn sefjknf sekf fsnv....
Xavier: Get up! Where is she?
Logan: Wheres Jean?
Xavier: What did you do? I told you to keep your mouth shut and not upset her. What did you say to her?
Logan: All I asked was where were Scott and...[Logan inhales and has a quizzical look on his face. Xavier looks at him with an understanding expression.]
Xavier: Oh Jean...what have you done?
Logan: What is...
Xavier: Open up the closet, NOW!
Logan doesnt understand Xaviers urgency but heads to the closet, and the smells of fear and lemon grass nearing knock him off his feet. He looks at the closet door carefully and notices that theres no opening.
Logan: What the hell? [ He bumps it, slashes it, then kicks it down.]
The door slides of the wall to reveal the huddled up Ororo shivering hard from the fright.
Logan: Ro? Ro...common we gotta go and get- -
Xavier: Shes severely claustrophobic. Jean...[sighs] she knew this. [shakes his head] Why would she do that? [turns around to roll out] I need to find Jean. Make sure that Ororo gets some sleep.
Logan is cradling a whimpering Ororo. He looks down at her and brushes her short crop of hair out of her face. At his touch, she stirs and opens wide scared eyes.
Ororo wraps her arms around Logan and digs her hands in his shirt.
Ororo: I didnt think any one would come for me. It took so long before, and it smelled so bad.
Logan rubs the small of her back.
Ororo: Logan? Oh goddess... Jean!
Logan: Easy darlin. You arent ready to hit the skies just yet. Sit. [Ororo looks at him then softly sits down next to him. There is an awkward pause between them.] I didnt know you were a claustrophobic. I woulda...
Ororo turns her head very slowly in an angry way to glare at him.
Ororo: Well of course not. You never bothered to stay around long enough to get to know me. To everyone else here its common knowledge.
Logan: I...Look Ro- -
Ororo: Save it, Logan. One thing that you can learn right now, is that no one stops me from doing what I want to do, and right now I want to find Jean and bring her back.
Logan: Arent you really pissed at her?
Ororo: I am angry at a lot of things, but I do not have a choice but to live with it, now do I? Go get the professor, and meet me at the Benz.
~End Scene~
MaleRogue said:So this is my new update yay
I hope you all like the update and please leave a small comment
Like:
I like it or I don't like it.
Good or Not good
Pick one but please leave one so I know what you all think
TKing said:Before you write again, I suggest you check your spelling.![]()
Goddessreicho said:I'll have you know that I've heard much worse from much better people at that. Besides you sweat my writing. I have both the reviews you left me for the re-writes I did. So, um, yeah.![]()
I've worked alot with coaching actors theatrical performances and dialog. I've written plays and casted for some too. So keeping characterization is something that is near and dear to my heart, and I have experience in it.
*you misspelled dialog, but I gotcha. I won't tell anyone though.PhoenixRisen said:^^
I do like MaleRogue's pacing and think his writing style has really grown since he started. You are half right, practice makes better but not perfect cuz we are all humans and no writer is perfect. I do try to be encouraging because many people stop writing cuz they feel they can't do it.
You gave a thoughtful review of his chapter. You spent time on what you said and cared enough to post a comment. That is really nice so I hope you will keep commenting because it gives everyone something to think about!!! However for me, his book is called "Mutant Chaos" so I expect a little boom-boom-boom pace....His Z'Cann scenes are nice and slow, making good contrast. Adding some details/character quirks/history is a good suggestion, provided they fit his plot and are not "forced."
However, I think the rewrite you posted illustrates the other end of the spectrum--mainly too much verbosity. The character development you are going for is too often redundant/distracts from the core emotions/conflicts.....In other words it feels a little "forced" like you were writing with the deliberate intention to "do" character development and put things in that didn't necessarily fit or belong......For your piece I would suggest:
--Tighten your style by strengthening and honing individual thoughts/concepts.
--Avoid rephrasing what you already said as a way to add gravitas or to establish a slower pace. Lingering is OK but keep it interesting and fresh.
--Make details ring true.
--Avoid cliches ("quiet reverence," "unbridled fear," etc.)
--Make sure characterizations match tone. (i.e. overdone/out-of-place use of pet names.)
--Show don't tell. Convey more concepts through visual details/action/dialogue.
--Maintain consistent POV. The omniscient narrator at certain points pulls reader out of scene. Let us see what is going on in their minds without telling explicitly. And don't have the narrator oversimply the characters by boiling them down to glib stereotypes--that ruins what you are trying to do.
--Kill your darlings. (Yes it is a nice idea that it starts to rain when Ororo is thinking about what happened at Alkali Lake, but how to show it? Cut to outside scene showing rain? No, that would be distracting. But I doubt that anything less than a Katrina-level hurricane could be heard down in the medical bay which has what looks like foot-thick steel walls. Maybe that idea is just a little too precious--in other words a "darling." So kill it. Same goes for the hairbrush in the medical bay. In that case I would remedy the distraction by having her use her fingers instead, and besides it's more immediate/intimate.)
--Let pace flow from story, don't "force" it.
--Write about something you are passionate about in a positive way. If you hate the X-movies why rewrite them? On a meta level your piece comes across like you are trying to prove something, like you set out to show how the movies lacked character development--so you went overboard and the tone/heart is just "off." I get the sense that your passion isn't for the story you are writing but for the point you are trying to prove.
P.S. I know you said not to check spelling BUT it's "Munroe" not "Monroe"--Storm's PROPER NAME!!! A true Storm fan should get THAT right, anything else...well u can make it as professional as you like!!!! (My posts usually contain more typos than correct spelling but I don't expect them to be seen as works of fine literature.)
You have great ideas and interesting parallels about tying Jean and Ororo's experiences/differences...mostly your piece just needs tightening/editing and is far better to have more to work with, not less!!! Anyway keep editing and it will get better...............(FYI, for fun I edited the first part of your rewrite but this is a thread for MaleRogue's story and I don't wanna stray off topic, I can send it to you if you want....the suggestions I listed stemmed from a critique of your piece but I tried to keep them generic.)
Just remember for every story that is too fast-paced there is another that is bogged down by overdone/trite "character development." And just as your review of MaleRogue's chapter was well intentioned and thoughtful, my critique of your rewrite is not meant as an attack but shows I care enough to comment/feel your work has potential!!!!!!
(A final note, when it comes to your writing credentials, again, show don't tell. Show us how great your writing is, don't tell us about your extensive experience with dialogs coaches etc.--esp. if your writing doesn't quite live up to your own hype...are we supposed to think your rewrite is better than it is because of you have written for "paying audiences"??)
Goddessreicho said:*you misspelled dialog, but I gotcha. I won't tell anyone though.
This is like your second or third nice post to me. I like it alot. Really. I swear I'm not being sarcastic either. The misspellings and switcharoos with the homophones, 'o's and 'u's, 'j's and 'b's and other basic things come from a bad case of being perceptionally impaired/dyslexic, typing faster than I can see, long finger nails, and occasionally just not caring. I really should put more effort into it.
This is somewhat of a very rough draft. I was getting tired of it and got to lazy to put it in complete script format. It's half novel half script and a complete formatting mess. It needs alot of editing. That's something I just don't do well at all, DUH! But yeah. I posted this all over everywhere cause I wanted to make sure that I got Jean's character relatively close before I started second draft, where cuts would start taking place. Ororo character, being a near blank f'n page, still needs so much work in the movie verse. Believe me I struggled, and I'm still struggling, cause I hate the corner she's in. No surprise there.
But the scene is suposed to be about 80% character devolpment. Jean/Phoenix, Logan, and Storm were all showing vunerable sides. The only piece of plot was that Jean was in the mansion's custody, then she abruptly leaves and no one can stop her. It's forced because...the originial didn't do much for characters. Just, "Where's Scott," "Roooaar,"sniffling, confusion, dry humping, and a concussion. Kinda like how the audience felt.
There are pieces of this scene that I hate. I'm not talking about the Jelo. The last ten lines, need to go. The beginning needs to be reworked. Your absolutely right. There are places that just don't flow. Why, cause its forced. Yep, your right there. But this whole scene is forced. Why, because a huge complaint of the movie was that Jean and Storm don't share a real substantial scene. This is why. No matter where it is anywhere in the trilogy, its forced. The first two movies don't tell us anything about how the x-men feel about each other outside of Jean and Scott. How does Ororo feet in with the two of them. Is she closer to Scott because of their street origins or Jean for the sake of womanhood. We'll never know because no one spoke to Ororo outside of the leather. She was a wind and fog machine to bark orders at. Jean was downgraded to a piece of meat with self-heating power. The Phoenix was a random person at picked up at the bus stop along for the ride. So trying to hit three birds with one stone, is tricky. I'm still working on it. In fact you are the first person, outside of Ntcrwler to say fix that that and that. Thank you. That's what I wanted. It'll never reach a final draft unless it gets beta'd, reformatted, edited (over and over) and criticized so there is a functional compromise.
Another point you hit was that I'm not writing this out of passion. My passion died six years ago when I left that theater in tears of disappointment. It stared out as a joke. (comedy is fun. i it) and it escalated. I had some ideas in a one-shot that other people expanded on and I kept writing. I haven't done any writing of my own in about three years. I'm used to stage work. Body language, voice projection and variation, tone...to me that's action. So "quiet reverence" can be acted out. I saw it as an action. But now I know that a ready can't. I needed someone to actually say that. So now when it gets reformatted I can keep an eye out for lines like that and fix those.
As for the "darlings," it was a form of red tape. Because of the way things turned out Storm's balcony scene was entirely different. It's not about her, it's about Scott. The really isn't a connection between the weather and her. Because I'm not allowed to touch the previous films and X3 is being completely re-worked, this is the only reference to Ororo's powers being emotionally linked to the weather. Its a core part of her character, the reason why she's often flat and emotionless. Very much like TLS, and here, telling the audience that Storm is an ecopath is a forced idea.
It doesn't belong anywhere. It has nothing to do with anything remotely important. Why, well in all essence, Storm isn't important. She doesn't further the plot. She never did. This brings us back to the originial argument and problem. Storm was never given the opportunity to be more than minority cannon fodder and a power tool. Her lack of established relationships to anyone help drive that point home. She had more chemistry with Rogue and Wolverine in X1 than the people she lived with. That's because she actually spoke to them. When she corned Logan it showed strength, CHARACTER, and dare I say, a rare nobility. All of which was quickly erased in the at Liberty Island. Worse line ever, "I can't control it like that..." There very first thing she did in the movie was control a precise wind. She had the memory of a goldfish.
I so want to kill her. I really do.
Scott may have had a short role in TLS, but it was far from insignificant. Ororo had an expanded role, but was completely useless. No leadership, no care taken to others...she was written out of character and worthless. That's kinda what I saw from MR's Storm. I just didn't want to see that again. I suggestion what worked for me, writing a character pleasing fans, and pleasing yourself. That's what I tried to do with Jean/Phoenix. It was fun. I had a blast. Instead of doing the usual, I AM PHOENIX ROOOAAR, I did something else really different. She's kinda dark, emo, silent, deadly, and cruel. Like gothy ninja with gas.
Rewriting familiar characters is by no means an easy task. We all know that the professionals could barely get it right. That's why we are all here. I just didn't like how Tking was implying that I didn't know what I was talking about. I've seen it before. I was just imagining it on a stage. It's kinda like my frame work.
The plot was great. MR, you have a wonderful grasp on an ensemble cast. (Here comes the ick part) Just a little too good of a grasp. The characters lost a bit of their individuality. I may have not worded that properly, but that was all I was trying to say. Storm stood out the most because she is most familiar to me. Bobby was another one, but only because you based him off of movie-version, which I can't stand. To much a dramatic departure for the director's (Singer) preference. Quiet, shy, not lighthearted or carefree. Well at least he was still a romantic.
I want to reiterate. I loved the story. It was beautiful. That's including your OC which I tend to dislike. MR, you put alot of care and thought into Z'cann and it worked. Great job.
This is my last long post, ever.
PhoenixRisen said:^^
I do like MaleRogue's pacing and think his writing style has really grown since he started. You are half right, practice makes better but not perfect cuz we are all humans and no writer is perfect. I do try to be encouraging because many people stop writing cuz they feel they can't do it.
You gave a thoughtful review of his chapter. You spent time on what you said and cared enough to post a comment. That is really nice so I hope you will keep commenting because it gives everyone something to think about!!! However for me, his book is called "Mutant Chaos" so I expect a little boom-boom-boom pace....His Z'Cann scenes are nice and slow, making good contrast. Adding some details/character quirks/history is a good suggestion, provided they fit his plot and are not "forced."
However, I think the rewrite you posted illustrates the other end of the spectrum--mainly too much verbosity. The character development you are going for is too often redundant/distracts from the core emotions/conflicts.....In other words it feels a little "forced" like you were writing with the deliberate intention to "do" character development and put things in that didn't necessarily fit or belong......For your piece I would suggest:
--Tighten your style by strengthening and honing individual thoughts/concepts.
--Avoid rephrasing what you already said as a way to add gravitas or to establish a slower pace. Lingering is OK but keep it interesting and fresh.
--Make details ring true.
--Avoid cliches ("quiet reverence," "unbridled fear," etc.)
--Make sure characterizations match tone. (i.e. overdone/out-of-place use of pet names.)
--Show don't tell. Convey more concepts through visual details/action/dialogue.
--Maintain consistent POV. The omniscient narrator at certain points pulls reader out of scene. Let us see what is going on in their minds without telling explicitly. And don't have the narrator oversimply the characters by boiling them down to glib stereotypes--that ruins what you are trying to do.
--Kill your darlings. (Yes it is a nice idea that it starts to rain when Ororo is thinking about what happened at Alkali Lake, but how to show it? Cut to outside scene showing rain? No, that would be distracting. But I doubt that anything less than a Katrina-level hurricane could be heard down in the medical bay which has what looks like foot-thick steel walls. Maybe that idea is just a little too precious--in other words a "darling." So kill it. Same goes for the hairbrush in the medical bay. In that case I would remedy the distraction by having her use her fingers instead, and besides it's more immediate/intimate.)
--Let pace flow from story, don't "force" it.
--Write about something you are passionate about in a positive way. If you hate the X-movies why rewrite them? On a meta level your piece comes across like you are trying to prove something, like you set out to show how the movies lacked character development--so you went overboard and the tone/heart is just "off." I get the sense that your passion isn't for the story you are writing but for the point you are trying to prove.
P.S. I know you said not to check spelling BUT it's "Munroe" not "Monroe"--Storm's PROPER NAME!!! A true Storm fan should get THAT right, anything else...well u can make it as professional as you like!!!! (My posts usally contain more typos than correct spelling but I don't expect them to be seen as works of fine literature.)
You have great ideas and interesting parallels about tying Jean and Ororo's experiences/differences...mostly your piece just needs tightening/editing and is far better to have more to work with, not less!!!Anyway keep editing and it will get better...............(FYI, for fun I edited the first part of your rewrite but this is a thread for MaleRogue's story and I don't wanna stray off topic, I can send it to you if you want....the suggestions I listed stemmed from a critique of your piece but I tried to keep them generic.)
Just remember for every story that is too fast-paced there is another that is bogged down by overdone/trite "character development." And just as your review of MaleRogue's chapter was well intentioned and thoughtful, my critique of your rewrite is not meant as an attack but shows I care enough to comment/feel your work has potential!!!!!!
(A final note, when it comes to your writing credentials, again, show don't tell. Show us how great your writing is, don't tell us about your extensive experience with dialogue coaches etc.--esp. if your writing doesn't quite live up to your own hype...are we supposed to think your rewrite is better than it is because of you have written for "paying audiences"??)
Goddessreicho said:See look MR, you asked for an honest review. So I gave you one. Characterization and pacing. For me its grammar and punctuation. I mean I'm not surprised. I haven't written anything expansive in 3 years since I left college.
Practice makes perfect.
I've worked alot with coaching actors theatrical performances and dialog. I've written plays and casted for some too. So keeping characterization is something that is near and dear to my heart, and I have experience in it.
Sure people hear are going to be nice about things now. Heck, PhoenixRisen and I have had some words, as well as you and I before, and I do believe it was over the same subject. Yet, surprisingly enough, we've all gotten over it.
I just don't want you to fall into the same trap that all three movies fell into. That's the direction that I saw it going. Get some torrents and read about the characters you don't know well and don't like to write. Make them better than they have been portrayed, better than what they are.
Trust me. It works. It's fun, and it pays off. Again I'll use Jean as an example. I hate her. I hate what she was in the 70's. I hated that she got away with genocide after a few rewrites in the 80's. They couldn't make up their mind about her. In my opinion she should have said dead after the oringinial DP saga in 1982. I'm not the only one who thinks that.
But, once I when I write Jean I make her a better Jean. I strip her down to her basics (no man, no uber-powers...just her) and I make sure she's not annoying and she's flawed, recognizable, and personable, then I work my way up from there. She's got good things about her, bad things, and annoying things even with powers. I focus on that.
You should try that with Ororo. To do that you'll need to know some history, relationships, personality. I guarantee what comes out will surprise and delight you.
Please believe me I say that my original review wasn't bad. It was honest. That's what you asked for.
Thank you for the compliment. I do appreciate it. I had posted it Jean thread to make sure I got the character down, and the overall consensus was, yes. So as a lover-of-Storm I'm saying that for her to be actually be Storm she needs work, as of right now she's SINO, kinda like the how the scripts in the movie made her. But everything else was fine! Really. It's a compliment.
Well I think you are a good writer and have good concepts in there that's why I took the time to analyze/edit it or else why bother. I know you have passion for Storm and agree with what you say about how most characters were portrayed in the X-movies but hey that's what we got so...for some reason comics don't get adapted well to screen IMO i think studios (ironically considering they are "comic books") think ppl are too stupid to understand comics or the director's vision is more important than source material but who cares I still like em even tho they are not as good as they coulda been or how i woulda done em.Goddessreicho said:*you misspelled dialog, but I gotcha. I won't tell anyone though.
This is like your second or third nice post to me. I like it alot. Really. I swear I'm not being sarcastic either. The misspellings and switcharoos with the homophones, 'o's and 'u's, 'j's and 'b's and other basic things come from a bad case of being perceptionally impaired/dyslexic, typing faster than I can see, long finger nails, and occasionally just not caring. I really should put more effort into it.
This is somewhat of a very rough draft. I was getting tired of it and got to lazy to put it in complete script format. It's half novel half script and a complete formatting mess. It needs alot of editing. That's something I just don't do well at all, DUH! But yeah. I posted this all over everywhere cause I wanted to make sure that I got Jean's character relatively close before I started second draft, where cuts would start taking place. Ororo character, being a near blank f'n page, still needs so much work in the movie verse. Believe me I struggled, and I'm still struggling, cause I hate the corner she's in. No surprise there.
But the scene is suposed to be about 80% character devolpment. Jean/Phoenix, Logan, and Storm were all showing vunerable sides. The only piece of plot was that Jean was in the mansion's custody, then she abruptly leaves and no one can stop her. It's forced because...the originial didn't do much for characters. Just, "Where's Scott," "Roooaar,"sniffling, confusion, dry humping, and a concussion. Kinda like how the audience felt.
There are pieces of this scene that I hate. I'm not talking about the Jelo. The last ten lines, need to go. The beginning needs to be reworked. Your absolutely right. There are places that just don't flow. Why, cause its forced. Yep, your right there. But this whole scene is forced. Why, because a huge complaint of the movie was that Jean and Storm don't share a real substantial scene. This is why. No matter where it is anywhere in the trilogy, its forced. The first two movies don't tell us anything about how the x-men feel about each other outside of Jean and Scott. How does Ororo feet in with the two of them. Is she closer to Scott because of their street origins or Jean for the sake of womanhood. We'll never know because no one spoke to Ororo outside of the leather. She was a wind and fog machine to bark orders at. Jean was downgraded to a piece of meat with self-heating power. The Phoenix was a random person at picked up at the bus stop along for the ride. So trying to hit three birds with one stone, is tricky. I'm still working on it. In fact you are the first person, outside of Ntcrwler to say fix that that and that. Thank you. That's what I wanted. It'll never reach a final draft unless it gets beta'd, reformatted, edited (over and over) and criticized so there is a functional compromise.
Another point you hit was that I'm not writing this out of passion. My passion died six years ago when I left that theater in tears of disappointment. It stared out as a joke. (comedy is fun. i it) and it escalated. I had some ideas in a one-shot that other people expanded on and I kept writing. I haven't done any writing of my own in about three years. I'm used to stage work. Body language, voice projection and variation, tone...to me that's action. So "quiet reverence" can be acted out. I saw it as an action. But now I know that a ready can't. I needed someone to actually say that. So now when it gets reformatted I can keep an eye out for lines like that and fix those.
As for the "darlings," it was a form of red tape. Because of the way things turned out Storm's balcony scene was entirely different. It's not about her, it's about Scott. The really isn't a connection between the weather and her. Because I'm not allowed to touch the previous films and X3 is being completely re-worked, this is the only reference to Ororo's powers being emotionally linked to the weather. Its a core part of her character, the reason why she's often flat and emotionless. Very much like TLS, and here, telling the audience that Storm is an ecopath is a forced idea.
It doesn't belong anywhere. It has nothing to do with anything remotely important. Why, well in all essence, Storm isn't important. She doesn't further the plot. She never did. This brings us back to the originial argument and problem. Storm was never given the opportunity to be more than minority cannon fodder and a power tool. Her lack of established relationships to anyone help drive that point home. She had more chemistry with Rogue and Wolverine in X1 than the people she lived with. That's because she actually spoke to them. When she corned Logan it showed strength, CHARACTER, and dare I say, a rare nobility. All of which was quickly erased in the at Liberty Island. Worse line ever, "I can't control it like that..." There very first thing she did in the movie was control a precise wind. She had the memory of a goldfish.
I so want to kill her. I really do.
Scott may have had a short role in TLS, but it was far from insignificant. Ororo had an expanded role, but was completely useless. No leadership, no care taken to others...she was written out of character and worthless. That's kinda what I saw from MR's Storm. I just didn't want to see that again. I suggestion what worked for me, writing a character pleasing fans, and pleasing yourself. That's what I tried to do with Jean/Phoenix. It was fun. I had a blast. Instead of doing the usual, I AM PHOENIX ROOOAAR, I did something else really different. She's kinda dark, emo, silent, deadly, and cruel. Like gothy ninja with gas.
Rewriting familiar characters is by no means an easy task. We all know that the professionals could barely get it right. That's why we are all here. I just didn't like how Tking was implying that I didn't know what I was talking about. I've seen it before. I was just imagining it on a stage. It's kinda like my frame work.
The plot was great. MR, you have a wonderful grasp on an ensemble cast. (Here comes the ick part) Just a little too good of a grasp. The characters lost a bit of their individuality. I may have not worded that properly, but that was all I was trying to say. Storm stood out the most because she is most familiar to me. Bobby was another one, but only because you based him off of movie-version, which I can't stand. To much a dramatic departure for the director's (Singer) preference. Quiet, shy, not lighthearted or carefree. Well at least he was still a romantic.
I want to reiterate. I loved the story. It was beautiful. That's including your OC which I tend to dislike. MR, you put alot of care and thought into Z'cann and it worked. Great job.
This is my last long post, ever.