NBC's ''The Blacklist'' - Part 1

[Paradox1]

Is it because of the sudden shift in his attitude (pre vs post Katarina) and how they're sort of hiding his face when he's still with Katarina? Or just because with his interest to keep Kate around?

ETA: Ok I read some of the reasons at Reddit and I can understand now why... still not sure how I feel about that theory. It's too smart and I'm not convinced that this show is capable of that.

For me it was Katrina back then being like so much like Red today. it wasn't her speech or how she carried herself so much as who she was. She was a woman without an allegiance, she lied to everybody but Kate. When Kate is about to meet Red, she list off all the things Red's done. As I was hearing it, I was thinking could someone change that much in such a short time?

 

[blksuperman2]

Such a great episode. That was really well written and the origin of the Mr. Kaplan name was awesome.

 

[zenith16]

For me it was Katrina back then being like so much like Red today. it wasn't her speech or how she carried herself so much as who she was. She was a woman without an allegiance, she lied to everybody but Kate. When Kate is about to meet Red, she list off all the things Red's done. As I was hearing it, I was thinking could someone change that much in such a short time?

hmm they still need to show red's full past before he got into the life of crime cause for some reason I've been getting this vibe that with most of the people red him self were linked too like the guy from mash that a senator

it seem he didn't really want to be in that world and he was pulled into it some what and he only stayed there cause he wanted to protect liz and her mom.

oh also I think katerina said Red took liz but we know it was someone esle that was linked to kirk and it was Red that saved them in the fire. which he has burn scar's in his back. there's alot that need to be clear up on what was what.

I'm two bullets to the head ouch. most people would be functioning or barely walking

 

[Hunter Rider]

Just caught up, both episodes were really good, the Mr. Kaplan backstory was intriguingly crafted and seems to indicate to me that Red is Liz's dad.....but I'm reading the posts here and am I right in tihnking yuou guys are saying Red is actually a sex changed Katarina?

The Red vs Kaplan war should be good, she has all those bodies on him and she's not actually in the wrong in wanting her revenge.

 

[Paradox1]

Just caught up, both episodes were really good, the Mr. Kaplan backstory was intriguingly crafted and seems to indicate to me that Red is Liz's dad.....but I'm reading the posts here and am I right in tihnking yuou guys are saying Red is actually a sex changed Katarina?

The Red vs Kaplan war should be good, she has all those bodies on him and she's not actually in the wrong in wanting her revenge.

The writers on the show have said that Red never lies to Liz, it's a rule of theirs. In the first season I believe Liz ask him "are you my father?". Red answers no, but in the confrontation with Kirk. When asked if Liz is his child Red says yes. If Liz is his child but not her father, there is only one other option. If the writers have mislead us, than the theory doesn't hold water. Or they try to explain it with some Obi-Won from a certain point of view crap.

 

[carrrnuttt]

The writers on the show have said that Red never lies to Liz, it's a rule of theirs. In the first season I believe Liz ask him "are you my father?". Red answers no, but in the confrontation with Kirk. When asked if Liz is his child Red says yes. If Liz is his child but not her father, there is only one other option. If the writers have mislead us, than the theory doesn't hold water. Or they try to explain it with some Obi-Won from a certain point of view crap.

There's also whatever Red whispered to Kirk (when Kirk had Red strapped to a chair and seconds away from killing Red) that was so profound, Kirk just walked away from Red without touching him any further.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The writers on the show have said that Red never lies to Liz, it's a rule of theirs. In the first season I believe Liz ask him "are you my father?". Red answers no, but in the confrontation with Kirk. When asked if Liz is his child Red says yes. If Liz is his child but not her father, there is only one other option. If the writers have mislead us, than the theory doesn't hold water. Or they try to explain it with some Obi-Won from a certain point of view crap.

I just don't see Red suddenly been revealed as a transgender man, it's way too far fetched and he's had several relationships with weomen, are we suppose to believe all of them were into men with vaginas and that none of them betrayed the fact Red was a woman? I also think the idea of Katarina becoming a man to try and protect Liz is ridiculously over the top.
Liz's adopted Dad was supposed to know Red and Katarina, two different people, I just don't see it.

 

[Paradox1]

I just don't see Red suddenly been revealed as a transgender man, it's way too far fetched and he's had several relationships with weomen, are we suppose to believe all of them were into men with vaginas and that none of them betrayed the fact Red was a woman? I also think the idea of Katarina becoming a man to try and protect Liz is ridiculously over the top.
Liz's adopted Dad was supposed to know Red and Katarina, two different people, I just don't see it.

I don't know how good gender reassignment is, however I assume it's pretty good. So good that a woman whose gone through gender reassignment can have a normal relationship that men have with women. To me it's no more over the top than Red creating a vast criminal empire just to protect Liz. It was an extraordinary situation where Katrina supposedly took her own life. Becoming Red wouldn't have been a bad play.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don't know how good gender reassignment is, however I assume it's pretty good. So good that a woman whose gone through gender reassignment can have a normal relationship that men have with women. To me it's no more over the top than Red creating a vast criminal empire just to protect Liz. It was an extraordinary situation where Katrina supposedly took her own life. Becoming Red wouldn't have been a bad play.

I'm pretty sure you still can't build a penis, the genital reassingment as of now only works for men who want to become more like a woman. I just think it would be totally preposterous that Red is supposedly Katarina, she could have just had plastic surgery if that was her play rather than becoming a man.

I actually think the trans community would find the concept of someone switching genders to basically go undercover offensively stupid, from what I've read it's a hugely personal thing that requires lots of therapy and treatment to adjust, a step made by people who feel trapped in the wrong gender, not a spy gimmick to disappear like changing your hairstyle and body shape. it would be the shows Shark jumping moment on an epicly silly scale.

 

[Kaleb]

The whole sex change does seem over the top, however we know its possible since in S1E12:The Alchemist, about the scientist who could change a persons DNA and give them a whole new identity as well as in S3:The Djinn about the woman who Muslim woman who gets hired to fulfill revenge fantasies,who was then was later revealed to once be a man.
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In S2 we are introduced to Naomi (Red wife) who's 1st comment is how different Red looks (Ressler in S1 makes a similar comment about how there are no old photos of Red before he went underground)


Carnutt & Paradox bought up the scene with Red & Alexander,there's also another scene in that episode where Red ask Alexander to tell him about Katerina,and Alexander tells Red some story about watching Katerina dance (I think?) in some house, and while Alexander is telling the story Red is practically finishing Kirk's sentences of the story and filling in the blanks as if he was there himself as if remembering a life he once had.

and most recently recently what got my attention was some of the delivery of dialogue Katerina used (like I mentioned before it was as if Red delivered them)

..

Other small tidbits
-One of Reds first words to Liz is ''Everything about me is a lie''
-Red being adamant about Katerina committing suicide at Cape May
-Red and Doms (Katerina) interaction while they are eating breakfast



It does seem like a stretch and I would prefer them not to go in this direction,but at the same time I would not have a problem if this was planned from the very beginning


..

 

[Kaleb]

I'm pretty sure you still can't build a penis, the genital reassingment as of now only works for men who want to become more like a woman. I just think it would be totally preposterous that Red is supposedly Katarina, she could have just had plastic surgery if that was her play rather than becoming a man.

I actually think the trans community would find the concept of someone switching genders to basically go undercover offensively stupid, from what I've read it's a hugely personal thing that requires lots of therapy and treatment to adjust, a step made by people who feel trapped in the wrong gender, not a spy gimmick to disappear like changing your hairstyle and body shape. it would be the shows Shark jumping moment on an epicly silly scale.

Agreed, it would be,I think if they would do it it would have to be in the very final episode

 

[zenith16]

The writers on the show have said that Red never lies to Liz, it's a rule of theirs. In the first season I believe Liz ask him "are you my father?". Red answers no, but in the confrontation with Kirk. When asked if Liz is his child Red says yes. If Liz is his child but not her father, there is only one other option. If the writers have mislead us, than the theory doesn't hold water. Or they try to explain it with some Obi-Won from a certain point of view crap.

this is that cray there was black Lister from one of the arab region when liz was named enemy of the state after killing the guy/ senator from mash Allen Alda the black lister was getting revenge on her father and killed her young brother and the reason was due to the father making have sex chance cause she was originally a male and the fther couldn't accept she was gay and when red came to pick up liz during the day even his reaction to the thing was very interesting to the father sitting in the chair after the guy was well mess and red had killed and had the blacklister though he had som sepyathy had her arrested by the fbi while him self and liz escaped.

lol I see kaleb has already same thing about the arab lady black lister I mentioned.



and there also the fact that this type thing also shown in the show pretty little liers according to my youngest sister that one ofthe people trying to kill the main protagnist's if that series show was a trangendered.

I don't know what the reaction from tv audience was or if there was blow back with that show doing that. Since I don't watch pretty little lier's my self.


this will be interesting if true. that the real red died some how at some point and she assumed the name. It's also interesting that Liz doesn't recognize mr caplin who was her nanny and kate/ mr. caplin doesn't recognize most Katerina mannerism's like the way she talk or act's and she been with him for good while now with ger and time he came to pick her to ask her to join him in protecting liz.

 

[Kaleb]

this is that cray there was black Lister from one of the arab region when liz was named enemy of the state after killing the guy/ senator from mash Allen Alda the black lister was getting revenge on her father and killed her young brother and the reason was due to the father making have sex chance cause she was originally a male and the fther couldn't accept she was gay and when red came to pick up liz during the day even his reaction to the thing was very interesting to the father sitting in the chair after the guy was well mess and red had killed and had the blacklister though he had som sepyathy had her arrested by the fbi while him self and liz escaped.

lol I see kaleb has already same thing about the arab lady black lister I mentioned.



and there also the fact that this type thing also shown in the show pretty little liers according to my youngest sister that one ofthe people trying to kill the main protagnist's if that series show was a trangendered.

I don't know what the reaction from tv audience was or if there was blow back with that show doing that. Since I don't watch pretty little lier's my self.


this will be interesting if true. that the real red died some how at some point and she assumed the name. It's also interesting that Liz doesn't recognize mr caplin who was her nanny and kate/ mr. caplin doesn't recognize most Katerina mannerism's like the way she talk or act's and she been with him for good while now with ger and time he came to pick her to ask her to join him in protecting liz.

Yes if the theory is true, then the original Reddington (Liz's father,which we recently discovered Liz didnt have any contact with) would have died in the fire after being shot by Liz.Katerina would then take Liz to Mr Kaplan for her to look after (and later she would end up with Sam) while Katerina goes on the run and lands up in Cape May and fakes her death

 

[zenith16]

Yes if the theory is true, then the original Reddington (Liz's father,which we recently discovered Liz didnt have any contact with) would have died in the fire after being shot by Liz.Katerina would then take Liz to Mr Kaplan for her to look after (and later she would end up with Sam) while Katerina goes on the run and lands up in Cape May and fakes her death

well ok though the made seem that man liz killed as child was some worker hishairwasn't blond. and state red was formly blond acording kate/mr.caplin story.I'm not surey if it was red that died in that fire. as I said befor though there's alot that still needs to be cleared up on red's actual past.

I know they'll take their sweet time with it. anyway's uptil now it was looking like Red got involved with the criminal under world cause it wasn't fully his chose and beside protecting liz it looked like he was doing clean with thing he/she regrets being involved in when show case allen alda talking about that stuff with him like how he lost his job in navy intelligence got into the underworld of crime at that point.. there alot that need's to be clear up there. but man did become well verse that world.

 

[Kaleb]

From what I gather:

Reddington (or ''The American'' as Katerina mentioned to Mr Kaplan was married to Naomi and had a child named Jennifer) has an affair with Katerina.Unknown to Red Katerina was a Russian spy who was working him for information,and at some point she fell in love and got pregnant (enter baby Elizabeth).

Life is hard for Katerina she cant do spy work and change diapers so she decides to hire a full time nanny (Mr Kaplan)this makes it much easier for Katerina to continue being as well as Alexander Kirk (who assumes Elizabeth is his daughter) was busy traveling all over the world.

A few years later at some point Raymond discovers Elizabeth was his child and kidnaps her and takes her back to America (Katerina/Constantine and Elizabeth were living in Nova Scotia).Katerina decides to go after Raymond and take baby Liz back.I assume this is when the night of the fire took place

Transcript of the Luther Braxton episode in S2 (When Dr Orchard helped Liz recover her memories of the night of the fire)
Man (Red?): Okay, stay here sweetheart. No matter what happens you need to stay here. And not come out until I come get you, understand?
Woman (Katerina): Where is she?
Man: You shouldn’t be here! You can’t be here!
Woman: I’m not leaving without Masha!
Man: Her name is Elizabeth
Woman: Masha!
Man: She’s not going back with you!
Woman: You can’t take her away from me (this is a bit unclear)
Woman: How could you steal her from me?
Man: You wouldn’t let me see her!
Woman: Masha!
Man: Get out!
Woman: Get your hands off me! Did you think you could get away with it? That I wouldn’t find you?
Man: You’re not here for her!
Woman: Listen. You’re in trouble.
Man: Because of you!
Woman: Yes!
Man: You TOLD them!
Woman: Yes, I did. I told them.
Woman: It was my job.
Man: It was your job to spy on ME!
Woman: Yes. No. I didn’t want to. I tried to protect you.
Man: Is that… -unclear- Woman: …they threatened Masha
Man: And that’s how you justify…
Woman: Because I love you.
Woman: They’ll kill you if you don’t give it back
Man: They’ll kill me if I do.
Man: She’s not here
Woman: Did you really think I’d let this happen? That I wouldn’t come for her?
Man: Hey! Get away from me. It’s not here!
Woman: That I wouldn’t find you?
Man: ...is the only thing keeping me alive. Who the hell are they?
Woman: Split up. Start with the basement, the attic. Take it apart. Comb everything.
Man: It’s not here.
Man: It’s not here.
Man: You’re not taking her.
Woman: Stop!
Man: Stop!
Woman: Stop! Get away!
Man: Listen…
Gunshot : (young Liz pulling the trigger)

https://soundcloud.com/tvgeek1/clean-track-tbl-210/s-u0bnE

 

[zenith16]

From what I gather:

Reddington (or ''The American'' as Katerina mentioned to Mr Kaplan was married to Naomi and had a child named Jennifer) has an affair with Katerina.Unknown to Red Katerina was a Russian spy who was working him for information,and at some point she fell in love and got pregnant (enter baby Elizabeth).

Life is hard for Katerina she cant do spy work and change diapers so she decides to hire a full time nanny (Mr Kaplan)this makes it much easier for Katerina to continue being as well as Alexander Kirk (who assumes Elizabeth is his daughter) was busy traveling all over the world.

A few years later at some point Raymond discovers Elizabeth was his child and kidnaps her and takes her back to America (Katerina/Constantine and Elizabeth were living in Nova Scotia).Katerina decides to go after Raymond and take baby Liz back.I assume this is when the night of the fire took place

hmmm. why was his hair darker then if he supposed to be blond? (I mean your noticable blond
) sorry I guess I'm still hung on earlier season where the guy that fell to the ground after liz shot had dark hair.

so I'm not really expecting you to answer that.

i still find weird liz was able to do that with that gun they said she was 4/5 initially prior to all this. well when caplin gave her to liz's foster father she looked 8 .it's not complelely unheard of inmost case's it's more like the kid dropped it and it went off in the old days like talking 80's etc. it's hard for kid that age to pull the trigger she was around 4. Now age's6 -8 may be

 

[Mysteryman]

I would need some solid proof to believe this theory.

 

[Mysteryman]

I would need some solid proof to believe this theory.

So, Red had a career in the Navy and nobody noticed that he was missing genitalia?
If you unpack this theory, it comes apart pretty easily.

 

[blksuperman2]

I was thinking about y'all's theory and it just doesn't make sense if you recall the episodes regarding Berlin. Red seems to truly care about his ex-wife and wants to do everything to rescue her from Berlin. Katarina would have no real connection to Red's ex-wife or care about the house Red and his wife shared together.

 

[Paradox1]

So, Red had a career in the Navy and nobody noticed that he was missing genitalia?
If you unpack this theory, it comes apart pretty easily.

After the "fire" Red changed betraying his country, becoming criminal and leaving his wife. Side note I don't know if this is related but they made a big deal about Red's fingerprints not matching what's on file. Or the prints they got from the box. I assume he touched it but somehow his prints don't match, like you know he a different person.

 

[Kaleb]

After the "fire" Red changed betraying his country, becoming criminal and leaving his wife. Side note I don't know if this is related but they made a big deal about Red's fingerprints not matching what's on file. Or the prints they got from the box. I assume he touched it but somehow his prints don't match, like you know he a different person.

Red probably got Laurel Hitchin (National security advisor to the President) to change them.

 

[Kaleb]

I was thinking about y'all's theory and it just doesn't make sense if you recall the episodes regarding Berlin. Red seems to truly care about his ex-wife and wants to do everything to rescue her from Berlin. Katarina would have no real connection to Red's ex-wife or care about the house Red and his wife shared together.

This is what kinda gives me pause about this theory, but it could be that Katerina somehow feels guilty.

 

[zenith16]

This is what kinda gives me pause about this theory, but it could be that Katerina somehow feels guilty.

it might a bit of both and this isv liz's only sibling . I think katerinewanted to know if it wasv red's kid if she's being red present day. then there's guilt curiousity (cause she may have never met Liz's sister)and the fact that she want some happyness for liz with as little with the limits she as red is able to provide for until she find's way get liz free of what ever people are after her for.

the fact that when red went missing and he (keterin posing as him) never contacted liz's sister makes sense. it would mean those people would use her if he showed he still cared had leverage . So I guess Katerin left what was left of that broken family be.


she did enough damage to that family as is. Now if the real red had more then on those two women and two daughters ?..... it would still mean red another(third) daughter and I guess she wanted to see if it was true or no and get look at her. or just look into that situation cause it peek her interest.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Agreed, it would be,I think if they would do it it would have to be in the very final episode

You presented a lot of interesting stuff to support the theory, but I also think there's a number of things that negate it as well, we'll see what happens but I think it would be a deathnote for the show, which would be a shame as the show is hitting a good run after Redemption which was pretty strong and now Red vs Kaplan.

 

[Kaleb]

You presented a lot of interesting stuff to support the theory, but I also think there's a number of things that negate it as well, we'll see what happens but I think it would be a deathnote for the show, which would be a shame as the show is hitting a good run after Redemption which was pretty strong and now Red vs Kaplan.

Agreed,the 2nd half of this season has been great.Yeah there are a lot of little things that can easily kill the theory,for example the speech Red gives to Ressler

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