New Christians Have A Voice

[JStorm]

'Boxing is right.

I should take into account the 'idea' of this site.


Keep it open, Mods. But the second one of you feels it gets off base, even in the slightest, you have my approval of shutting it down.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

He asked for the thread to be closed, and then changed his mind 11 posts later.
!Shocker!

That would've been funny though....the thread about how the New Christians have a VOICE...being closed, hahaha

 

[JStorm]

He asked for the thread to be closed, and then changed his mind 11 posts later.
!Shocker!

That would've been funny though....the thread about how the New Christians have a VOICE...being closed, hahaha

'Boxing Pmed me and made a great point.



Simply, Wilh, I just got sick and tired of coming in here and the topic be skewed over mindless droning, on the part of - Christians.



And I thought you loved my 'lameness.'


Always good to hear from you, man.

 

[JStorm]

Edited just for you, big guy.

I wear my wilhelms on my sleeve.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Thanks, and I hope this thread does do well. Maybe It would be good for you to set some guidelines for the discussion. Make it clear to people what it is you wanted to talk about?

 

[squeekness]

I still can't discern, if you actually don't understand the significance of errors in the Bible, or if you're just being evasive.

I'm not being evasive, I just not a literalist. I read teh OT as a history of the Jews and what they were thinking at the time. I disagree with MANY of their laws and since I don't believe that book is the absolute word on things, I can get away with that. I think the OT is people trying to figure out who God is, what he means to them, and what He was trying to say. It is riddled with human faults because humans wrote it.

There is a lot of wisdom to be found in many books, THOUSANDS of books, but we don't commit to being diligent in altering our lives to conform to the teachings of those books, because they aren't "given" to us from the very Creator of the Universe.

I agree and that is why I am currently reading through the Qu'ran along with other books. I think it is best to get more than one opinion on things.

BUT, when we find out that the claims are false and imperfect, then THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE the God claims, and no reason to believe the wacky, or even evil things (just like you choose to ignore the evil things the Bible teaches about homosexuality), but then, how can you tell which parts TO believe?

I'd like to believe that the heart can tell us. When I read a passage about how it's all fine and well to murder gay people it makes me cringe and my heart tells me that was human error. Someone took something God might have said -- "Don't commit adultery" perhaps -- and twisted it for themselves.

It's all up to you, BUT, you are fallible and flawed.
That's the whole charm of a religion..."Ah, finally I don't have to worry and can just trust God and I'll be all right!"

Yes, I am fallible and flawed and that is why I won't insist that I am entirely correct in my beliefs. It works for me, but it doesn't work for you and it doesn't have to.

The whole idea of Christianity is that Jesus is God's son, and that you have to follow his teachings, and that you'd go to Hell if not for his sacrifice on the cross, and that you must be "Born Again"...according to HIM, not me.
But if the very medium that brings us these teachings is flawed, then why should we believe any of the other outrageous, very specific prophecies and claims?

Because for me, there was enough wisdom that was recorded as Jesus's words that I can follow the priciples that were presented. It is a lifestyle I can,for the most part, agree with.

It all depends on the authority, of the words, as the "Word of God"...by it's OWN design.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)


“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35



Jesus says the Old Testament law is perfect, from God...and that we have to heed the scripture. If you don't believe that, how can you say you're a Christian?
You're not following Christ's teachings. that's ANTI-Christ.
And if you take the liberal view, where, the Bible just has a lot of nice stories that teach us a lot of stuff, well, no...it doesn't JUST have a lot of nice teachings.
It says that Jesus was there at the Creation of the universe, and that he'll send you to damnation if you don't accept him as lord of your life.

I don't agree that it makes me an anti-Christ because I disagree with things that are viloent and smack of the human touch. Jesus said in so many words that we'd all be happier if we just calmed down and helped each other out and got over ourselves already. I can agree with his pacifistic postion. Of all the supposed prophets he was the least violent and never led a supposedly God sanctioned war. I do believe that the story of him rescuing the prostitute from the crowd is true in heart if not in actuality because it is firmly in line with his teachings. I can agree to follow the spirit of this Jesus that the Bible tries to present.

How is that a wise teaching?....that I'll suffer for eternity unless I submit to this invisible/intangible/inaudible God?...UNLESS...it's true?
And why should I believe it's true, when the same books that tell me th^t are full of horse s*** and evil and contradictions and lies and mistakes???

I don't believe that Jesus would have meant that in so harsh a way. I still think that those threats are human interpretations of a divine teaching they could not and we still do not fully grasp. The fact is, you do not have to believe it. I don't see why God wouldn't accept you if you are a decent person and try to help others as much as you can. If you are not willfully destructive against others I think he will see it. But that's me, that's Squeekianity which sorta seems to fall in line with the guy who is mentioned in the first post. You don't have to believe me or MovieFan or anyone else but your own heart. I will not stand here and condemn you for anything because it is not my place nor do I think God is such a tyrant. He cannot be if he is a merciful God.

pretty twisted test, you'd agree.

Yes, which is why I have trouble accepting the story as anything but a fable with a moral teaching about faith.

I think the bottom line here is that God wants to have a relationship with us and there are many ways to do that, whether it be Jew or Chrsitisan or Muslim or humble inquirer. That's why some things work for some folks and not for others. As time goes by I think the manner of travel matters less and less as all paths lead to the same place -- to Him eventually.

 

[The Senator]

Or am I being a good preacher of the good book?

I don't think that's the case, because your preachings haven't convinced me or anyone else (that I can tell) of the merits of the so-called "good book."

 

[Mr. Socko]

Excellent, excellent post Squeeks.

You still don't understand. Where did I judge anybody? Where did I say that any (specific) person is doomed here on the Hype? I said that certain acts are wrong and are a sin, but I also said back at the start of this thread that due to a couple of certain possibilities the Bible gives, I've judged no person here as being doomed. That's God's judgement.

I was judged in this very thread by a Christian who told me I would be condemned and doomed to hell, because of how they interpret the bible. If you believe what I do is wrong, ok, but you'd be better off keeping it to yourself than shouting it to others you don't like.

I believe in God, and that even main three religions are really just one, it's simply been skewed and disrupted into several. But problematic issues keep me from viewing the Bible/Torah or Qur'an as the ultimate way of knowing God, although there is a great deal to learn from both/all three. Is there truth in it? Yes, I believe so, but so many contradictions and problems I could find as well. It's as if one of the fellows who wrote the bible threw some of his own stuff in there and he was obviously a guy who didn't like his wife much.

I can't take it as the final word. If there's a God, a heaven and a hell, I just don't believe he would judge me based on my sexuality, or judge someone on whether or not they believe he is there, as opposed to seeing a person's character. I've said before, a just God would not send someone like Christopher Reeve or Mohandas Gandhi to hell, as their being atheist and Hindu respectively during their time here on earth. If the bearded one is real you can't bet those two men are waving down from heaven. Now we may believe in the same God but it appears my beliefs and vision of the mighty one is of a far more loving and caring God than one who strikes down people based on what they believe and who they love.

 

[The Chairman]

Excellent, excellent post Squeeks.



I was judged in this very thread by a Christian who told me I would be condemned and doomed to hell, because of how they interpret the bible. If you believe what I do is wrong, ok, but you'd be better off keeping it to yourself than shouting it to others you don't like.

I believe in God, and that even main three religions are really just one, it's simply been skewed and disrupted into several. But problematic issues keep me from viewing the Bible/Torah or Qur'an as the ultimate way of knowing God, although there is a great deal to learn from both/all three. Is there truth in it? Yes, I believe so, but so many contradictions and problems I could find as well. It's as if one of the fellows who wrote the bible threw some of his own stuff in there and he was obviously a guy who didn't like his wife much.

I can't take it as the final word. If there's a God, a heaven and a hell, I just don't believe he would judge me based on my sexuality, or judge someone on whether or not they believe he is there, as opposed to seeing a person's character. I've said before, a just God would not send someone like Christopher Reeve or Mohandas Gandhi to hell, as their being atheist and Hindu respectively during their time here on earth. If the bearded one is real you can't bet those two men are waving down from heaven. Now we may believe in the same God but it appears my beliefs and vision of the mighty one is of a far more loving and caring God than one who strikes down people based on what they believe and who they love.

Reeve became a Universalist before he died.

 

[rodhulk]

Excellent, excellent post Squeeks.



I was judged in this very thread by a Christian who told me I would be condemned and doomed to hell, because of how they interpret the bible. If you believe what I do is wrong, ok, but you'd be better off keeping it to yourself than shouting it to others you don't like.

I believe in God, and that even main three religions are really just one, it's simply been skewed and disrupted into several. But problematic issues keep me from viewing the Bible/Torah or Qur'an as the ultimate way of knowing God, although there is a great deal to learn from both/all three. Is there truth in it? Yes, I believe so, but so many contradictions and problems I could find as well. It's as if one of the fellows who wrote the bible threw some of his own stuff in there and he was obviously a guy who didn't like his wife much.

I can't take it as the final word. If there's a God, a heaven and a hell, I just don't believe he would judge me based on my sexuality, or judge someone on whether or not they believe he is there, as opposed to seeing a person's character. I've said before, a just God would not send someone like Christopher Reeve or Mohandas Gandhi to hell, as their being atheist and Hindu respectively during their time here on earth. If the bearded one is real you can't bet those two men are waving down from heaven. Now we may believe in the same God but it appears my beliefs and vision of the mighty one is of a far more loving and caring God than one who strikes down people based on what they believe and who they love.

You sure it was in this thread that somebody judged you or the other one?

If you read what I said back in the first 8-10 pages, you will see that I didn't judge anyone. I judged a sin, yes, but not the person as there could be an issue or two that could prevent the person from all that doom and gloom stuff, though, that's only a maybe. Judgement is God's. Now, I'm not giving a person an excuse if the have a relationship with the same sex person, it's okay! I always think Sodom and Gommorah, nobody was saved there. But as said, judgement is God's, so I don't judge you.

As for God judging Reeves or Ghandi, let's also leave that to God. If they have been sent to hell, well, let's not judge God until we find out the reason. But since we don't know what has happened to them, I try not to conclude anything.

 

[Superhobo]

You sure it was in this thread that somebody judged you or the other one?

If you read what I said back in the first 8-10 pages, you will see that I didn't judge anyone. I judged a sin, yes, but not the person as there could be an issue or two that could prevent the person from all that doom and gloom stuff, though, that's only a maybe. Judgement is God's. Now, I'm not giving a person an excuse if the have a relationship with the same sex person, it's okay! I always think Sodom and Gommorah, nobody was saved there. But as said, judgement is God's, so I don't judge you.

As for God judging Reeves or Ghandi, let's also leave that to God. If they have been sent to hell, well, let's not judge God until we find out the reason. But since we don't know what has happened to them, I try not to conclude anything.

A - -. No. I'll leave this alone.

If God did send Reeves or Ghandi to hell, for that reason, then he is not just. Period. Plain and simple.

 

[Super Kal]

we as humans have no right whatsoever to tell God how to judge people. It is not and never has been in our jurisdiction.


and it's Reeve... not Reeves.

 

[Superhobo]

we as humans have no right whatsoever to tell God how to judge people. It is not and never has been in our jurisdiction.


and it's Reeve... not Reeves.

EDIT

 

[squeekness]

Excellent, excellent post Squeeks.

Thanks.

we as humans have no right whatsoever to tell God how to judge people. It is not and never has been in our jurisdiction.

Absolutely.

 

[Lighthouse]

we as humans have no right whatsoever to tell God how to judge people. It is not and never has been in our jurisdiction.


and it's Reeve... not Reeves.

Maybe not, but when all we get for explanations is a book that sounds like fairy tale stories and countless contradictions, I think we have a right to question it.

 

[Super Kal]

you're right, Lighthouse... from time to time, I do question it.

but I do everything in my power to try not to judge it.
I can't judge it... not after what He's done in my life

 

[Kelly]

Maybe not, but when all we get for explanations is a book that sounds like fairy tale stories and countless contradictions, I think we have a right to question it.

A book doesn't have anything to do with my relationship with God, that is personal between me and my God.........I have never pushed my beliefs on anyone, and I don't plan to start now.

As I've said before.......the answers will come, either from the voice of a God that people believe in, or the silence of a life lived, but now gone.....either way, we will have our answers.