New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

[Fresh Prince]

No one asked for angry GOd Superman....Just more golden age Superman.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I have no doubt that the WB learned there lesson and we won't see ANYTHING like Burton's Superman, but all signs still point to a new version. The good thing is we do have Wolfman (co-creator of Post-Crisis Superman), Johns (master of taking things from pre/post Crisis) and Morrison (master of everything) working as consultants so that's definitley a relief!

Like I said before, I think the WB is going to be looking for a Yes Man to direct this film. After giving total control and $210 million to Singer, there going to want a guy they can control much easier. Luckily I can't prove this part, so I hope I'm wrong!

All these writers are comic book writers and they dont know how to direct a movie. Then, some of the things that work in comics dont work in the movies. You cant apply Morrison's impossible Silver Age plots to the big screen and expect the general audience to like it.
On the other hand, i dont want another director taking full control and doing whatever he wants. I mean, we will probably end up with a new version of things, but the problem is that it doesnt always work. Nolan's films may be successful and his stories great, but the cost to pay is the lack of realism, lack of fun, we wont see most of the rogues gallery because they are unrealistic, and bad fight scenes.
So you need a mutual relationship between the two parts. They need to work together because if one orders the other around, the chances of failure get bigger.

 

[solidsnake86]

CK1777 there obviously going to come up with a new version, you're not really saying anything that most people don't know. Does it have to be the opposite of donner, absolutely not. Geoff Johns is taking all of his elements and making a great story in secret origins, I would love to see that on screen minus the legion part.

 

[NeoRanger]

With Birthright in 2003, Post-Crisis Superman was completely taken out of continuity.

No, he wasn't. Only the origin was redone (Lex included), but the rest of the history was from all indications the same, down to the pocket dimension killings. Post-Crisis Superman was retconned with Infinite Crisis.

But the problem is if they didn't want a more Post-Crisis Superman movie in the 90's

Sure they did. Kevin Smith's Superman script was very much a post-crisis Superman. The reasons it never got made had nothing to do with the material.

Also, they didn't greenlight SR because of the Donner influences. They greenlit it for all the things that people hated about it (colors, kid, depressing, etc.). They never showed any interest in continuing S:TM until Bryan Singer came along. Singer basically told them how much he loved S:TM, at the same time he pitched them what THEY WANTED TO HEAR (colors, kid, depressing, etc.).

I'm pretty sure the consensus over at Warner was that they loved what Singer intended to do in its entirety. I personally think they were on mushrooms at the time, but they loved it nonetheless.

Lois and Clark only lasted 4 seasons, and that was a show that was on ABC I believe.

L&C's numbers went up in the 3rd season and it was going to have a 5th season just fine; it got axed only to be replaced by a show Disney wanted to bring up in its place. I don't remember the particulars, but it wasn't pulled from the air, because of low-ratings.

Also, I know we live in the world where shows last fine for a decade (and judging by 'Smallville' they don't even have to be good), but four seasons are anything but a failure for a TV show.

In any case, I've been vocal about how much I don't want to see a Donner-related film on the silver screen for as long as I live, but I wouldn't go as far as purposefully making everything a polar opposite of his stuff. And regarding the source material... if it was simply a matter of following one version or the other, we'd be seeing our 2nd sequel this summer. WB needs a Superman that works for the mainstream audience, regardless of the different mythos elements that the rest of us will be throwing angry fits over over here.

The discussion is kind of moot; we all have our ideal versions of a Superman movie lodged at the back of our heads and they matter little, at least until we're hired to write the bloody thing.

 

[ck1777]

No, he wasn't. Only the origin was redone (Lex included), but the rest of the history was from all indications the same, down to the pocket dimension killings. Post-Crisis Superman was retconned with Infinite Crisis.


Sure they did. Kevin Smith's Superman script was very much a post-crisis Superman. The reasons it never got made had nothing to do with the material.


I'm pretty sure the consensus over at Warner was that they loved what Singer intended to do in its entirety. I personally think they were on mushrooms at the time, but they loved it nonetheless.

Yeah my bad. I meant MOS was taken out of continuity in 2003 not all of Post-Crisis Superman.

Kevin Smith's Superman could have been done after Burton had ruined it if the WB really wanted to. Warner Brothers were more interested in Burton than they were with Smith.

Sure Warner Brothers liked all of Singers pitch, but they never would have accepted it without all the changes Singer brought. Without the changes it's almost a remake of S:TM. Also, at that time Warners was supposedly not interested in making an origin movie anymore. McG proved it right before he was off the project in an interview at some movie premiere. He kept saying he wanted to explore the Genesis of the character but the WB wanted to go another way. I remember getting a kick out of that interview because he used the term Genesis like 100 times and it would have mage a good drinking game.

 

[ck1777]

CK1777 there obviously going to come up with a new version, you're not really saying anything that most people don't know. Does it have to be the opposite of donner, absolutely not. Geoff Johns is taking all of his elements and making a great story in secret origins, I would love to see that on screen minus the legion part.

I like SO too, but I really doubt there's any chance of a movie version being made. I don't think Warners would allow the comic to be released if there was any chance of them making a movie out of it. Also, besides some of the 3rd issue, Secret Origins has done what I've said. They've shown a lot of things that weren't shown in S:TM but at the same time they've avoided things that were shown (Krypton, Kents finding Clark etc.) I'd go into more detail but I don't want to spoil the issue for anyone.

Like you said, I think most people know what's going on but I think a lot of people just don't want to believe it.

 

[Webhead2006]

For me i personally dont want to see any future superman films be stuck being like donner's superman. I still dont see the problem of taking the best elements from all eras of the character. That work the best mix them all together. Then through in stuff we fans want to see like corp lex, a non baffon clark kent cover, etc.... other plots.

But we have no real clue really what is going to happen in the future. What changes their is now with the restructing of dc comics into DCE and all that. Plus all things said since SR release could be very moot by the time next film ever does get around to production stages. Things change so fast these days. Only thing we do know for sure is superman isnt going anywhere film wise to the legal mumbo jumbo is done.

 

[El Payaso]

For me i personally dont want to see any future superman films be stuck being like donner's superman.

So you actually think that it might be ahppening?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Kevin Smith's script had Superman fight a giant spider. Burton cast Cage and Abraam's script is basically the equivalent of taking a **** on Superman's face.
How can DC make wonderful Superman comics and when it comes to the movies they let people who have no idea about the character write scripts? Jesus Christ, i lost faith in them completely. It turns out that Batman's success is based on Nolan and Goyer because WB clearly dont know what they re doing.

 

[elgaz]

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families. This method has been used in some comic book incarnations in the past.

My reason for doing so is that Superman is meant to be the last Kryptonian, yet in all Superman media - TV, radio, comics, movies - he's always encountered others who have equal powers to him : Zod, Supergirl, etc. He is widely considered to be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, yet this role diminishes somewhat when we know there are others out there with exactly the same abilities.

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families. This method has been used in some comic book incarnations in the past.

My reason for doing so is that Superman is meant to be the last Kryptonian, yet in all Superman media - TV, radio, comics, movies - he's always encountered others who have equal powers to him : Zod, Supergirl, etc. He is widely considered to be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, yet this role diminishes somewhat when we know there are others out there with exactly the same abilities.

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.

Three words: DO NOT WANT.

 

[ck1777]

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.

He's had a thirty-something year head start of absorbing solar rays. He's unique and unlike any other Kryptonian because he's more powerful than any of them. If he was genetically altered and he's the only one who can absorb our yellow sun than why bother having other Kryptonians if they can't?

 

[elgaz]

I'm not saying they can't - but the effect on them wouldnt be as strong as it is on Kal-El.

In any version I've read or watched to date, his 30yr head start is pretty much irrelevant - any other Kryptonians exposed to our sun have the same powers as him, which makes his iconic role as 'last survivor of Krypton' seem a bit OTT.

 

[Mr. Earle]

What if Clark is found by a young, rich couple? Then one night when he is 12 they take him to the opera, but when they leave from the back door, the couple is gunned down by a thief in front of him.

 

[super-t]

NO NO NO NO supes should be in WWII and get lost in alaska in freeze in the ice and then obama finds him in 09 and gives him a "SHEILDED" costume!

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Make Superman's mother white and father Kenyan. Also muslim.

 

[Fresh Prince]

WTF?....Superman being a muslim?.....NOOOO!

 

[BestGirl]

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families. This method has been used in some comic book incarnations in the past.

My reason for doing so is that Superman is meant to be the last Kryptonian, yet in all Superman media - TV, radio, comics, movies - he's always encountered others who have equal powers to him : Zod, Supergirl, etc. He is widely considered to be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, yet this role diminishes somewhat when we know there are others out there with exactly the same abilities.

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.

There are already complaints that Superman is too powerful. He needs beings in the universe to be as powerful as he is, even if it makes him less unique.

 

[NeoRanger]

Kevin Smith's script had Superman fight a giant spider. Burton cast Cage and Abraam's script is basically the equivalent of taking a **** on Superman's face.
How can DC make wonderful Superman comics and when it comes to the movies they let people who have no idea about the character write scripts?

Hey now, don't be unfair; Kevin Smith knows his comic books, it was producer Jon Peters that demanded the spider was in the script. And Abraam's took a **** on Superman's mythos, but word has it his Superman characterization was pretty spot-on, though I can't confirm this one myself.

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families.

I was working something similar in my head recently, but no, not for a movie. This is the kind of thing you want to experiment with in an one-shot, not something that will lodge into the mainstream's perception of Superman.

Smallville does enough damage in that regard as it is.

Then one night when he is 12 they take him to the opera,

Ha! Bruce was 8!

 

[Mr. Earle]

And Abraam's took a **** on Superman's mythos, but word has it his Superman characterization was pretty spot-on, though I can't confirm this one myself.

Search for his script on youtube. Here are some plot points: Krypton doesnt explode, but Jor-El sends his son to Earth because they are trying to kill him. Lex has powers. He and Superman fight across Metropolis. Yeah....

 

[Fresh Prince]

Why is Jor-El trying to kill his son?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Others are, so he tries to hide him in a distant planet. ****'s ****ed up!

 

[NeoRanger]

Search for his script on youtube. Here are some plot points: Krypton doesnt explode, but Jor-El sends his son to Earth because they are trying to kill him. Lex has powers. He and Superman fight across Metropolis. Yeah....

I know. Hence the "****ting on the mythos" bit; but mythos=/= characterization. And if I absolutely had to pick between one, I'd choose the latter.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Others are, so he tries to hide him in a distant planet. ****'s ****ed up!

Yeah that sounds stupid.

 

[solidsnake86]

I like SO too, but I really doubt there's any chance of a movie version being made. I don't think Warners would allow the comic to be released if there was any chance of them making a movie out of it. Also, besides some of the 3rd issue, Secret Origins has done what I've said. They've shown a lot of things that weren't shown in S:TM but at the same time they've avoided things that were shown (Krypton, Kents finding Clark etc.) I'd go into more detail but I don't want to spoil the issue for anyone.

Like you said, I think most people know what's going on but I think a lot of people just don't want to believe it.

I'm liking it too because its doing what everyone is asking for, combining elements from different eras into one version. I don't think for a movie they should use the legion though. I'm thinking the opposite of you in terms of Warners not releasing it if they were going to make a movie. What if there using it to test the waters because its fairly obvious superman fans can't agree on any superman origin story. Its been getting great reviews and with Johns involvement with the film division, if they do a reboot, I can see it having some influence.