Justice League Next version of Superman needs to be powered down...a lot!!!

[Prettyricky]

He was raised in Middle America, works two grueling jobs and has a tangled relationship with his girlfriend.

Sounds like an 'everday human' to me.

Every day man would be more in line with batman or spiderman. Superman is good but he is virtually indestructible to anything earth base so where is the drama in the 3 recent films? How can you relate to a god like character who has no weaknesses? Like i said i the character is a child power fantasy that you cant do much with in terms of drama like you can the other 6 heroes who can die by any earth based weapons.

 

[Skrilla31]

Every day man would be more in line with batman or spiderman. Superman is good but he is virtually indestructible to anything earth base so where is the drama in the 3 recent films? How can you relate to a god like character who has no weaknesses? Like i said i the character is a child power fantasy that you cant do much with in terms of drama like you can the other 6 heroes who can die by any earth based weapons.

Superman is no more indestructible in his own stories than Batman and Spiderman are in theirs.

Batman is a normal guy that can dodge bullets. He can evade any trap, he can solve any mystery... and he can beat up 20 guys at the same time. Spiderman is so powerful he can avoid danger before it even strikes.

No one watches these movies wondering whether or not the hero is going to save the day, it's expected. Superman's chances versus any antagonist are the same as Batman or Spiderman...which is 100%.

He just faces different challenges and on a much larger scale.

 

[valmont]

It doesn't matter if Superman can lift the Himalaya or the moon, what matter is how the others compare to him.
If the villain is weaker and can be easily defeated then you end up with a boring fight with no suspens and no tension.
If he dwarfs the rest of the league and can do everything they can better, then they appear irrelevant and unnecessary in the fight.

Balancing things is key.

 

[BigSams50]

Batman literally beats Superman so bad that he carries his unconscious body to drop down a well, then ragdolls him around a room, only to have Superman at the last second beg batman to save his mom, and yet Superman needs to be powered down? Nah, this just sounds like batMAN fan boys are mad their boy got outmatched once in his life.

 

[Anis]

You people need to learn how to read between the lines with the scene like this. Superman wasn't being too powerful here. He's in the level he's supposed to be. WW might not fully held back physically but had she wanted to harm him she would have drawn her sword. She didn't. It rediculous how WW fans got mad because she couldn't beat him with raw power alone. If Superman lost in a fist fight with WW who's also a better fighter and has the best combat skill of them all what'd be the point of having him around?

Aquaman was out of his element(water) and was new to the job. The Flash was new to his power and had never fight ANYONE at that point. Cyborg had trouble controling his own limps let alone fighting Superman.

Batman could never harm Superman without Kryptonite. Surely even the most avid Batfans know that's the fact.

For once we have a movie when Superman doesn't get laughted at for being a wimp or getting his ass kicked but that's too much for a lot of people.

 

[TheVileOne]

The time Venom was handing Superman his tail until Spider-Man saved him from near death.

 

[matt47]

I just wish they'd kept him the same as in MoS. I loved how he still struggled to keep the Oil rig up and him getting knocked out a couple of times by Faora n co.

I also miss how realistic they made him lifting things, like the oil rig. In "real life" (I know this is a comic book movie just shut it) I'm pretty sure that apartment building would've collapsed right? Just because he is incredibly strong doesn't mean Earth's physics get thrown out the window.
Would've much preferred actually seeing him safe people and them responding to the fact that he is alive again. Instead, we got a joke.

 

[heatvision38]

Superman is no more indestructible in his own stories than Batman and Spiderman are in theirs.

Batman is a normal guy that can dodge bullets. He can evade any trap, he can solve any mystery... and he can beat up 20 guys at the same time. Spiderman is so powerful he can avoid danger before it even strikes.

No one watches these movies wondering whether or not the hero is going to save the day, it's expected. Superman's chances versus any antagonist are the same as Batman or Spiderman...which is 100%.

He just faces different challenges and on a much larger scale.

This.

Rarely do I read a Batman story worrying, "Oh, no, he might actually lose here." It's how he wins that's fun, and sometimes he does lose and comes back and overcomes the obstacle, same as Superman. They just deal with different threats.

 

[heatvision38]

Batman literally beats Superman so bad that he carries his unconscious body to drop down a well, then ragdolls him around a room, only to have Superman at the last second beg batman to save his mom, and yet Superman needs to be powered down? Nah, this just sounds like batMAN fan boys are mad their boy got outmatched once in his life.

The funny thing is, Batgod fans (and I am specifcally referring to those who worship at the alter of the Batgod, not all Batman fans) don't realize that Superman actually has defeated Batman 3 times in the past 2 movies. He stops him in Gotham during the high speed chase. Superman simply chose to let Batman go (and let's be clear, if it were the other way around, with Batman letting Superman go, many Batman fans would count that as a victory for Batman). In the alternate future, Superman outsmarts Batman with the fake kryponite and then kills him. And then he throws him like a ragdoll in JL.

But none of those (except maybe the last one) gets counted as Superman victories, but if they happened the other way around, Batgod fans would count that as Batman victories. For some, Batman wins if A) he wins straight up, B) Batman survives long enough to snap Superman out of his mind control (ala Hush, which some actually count as a Batman victory), or C) Batman achieves his goal in the end, even if he didn't actually defeat Superman.

Batgod fans won't count a defeat for Batman if he wasn't prepared and ready for it. So Batman can trick Superman and it's a case of Batman's superior strategy, but if Superman tricks Batman or defeats him without Batman getting ample prep time, then it's Superman being a bully. The whole thing is a sham, I tell ya.

 

[heatvision38]

I just wish they'd kept him the same as in MoS. I loved how he still struggled to keep the Oil rig up and him getting knocked out a couple of times by Faora n co.

I also miss how realistic they made him lifting things, like the oil rig. In "real life" (I know this is a comic book movie just shut it) I'm pretty sure that apartment building would've collapsed right? Just because he is incredibly strong doesn't mean Earth's physics get thrown out the window.
Would've much preferred actually seeing him safe people and them responding to the fact that he is alive again. Instead, we got a joke.

That's why they have Jor-El's line about Clark continuing to test his limits. This allows him to be more powerful if they want without it be incongruous.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Ivan Drago was thought to be 'stronger' but Rocky still knocked him out.

There should be no such thing as a villain that's too strong for Superman.

There are several DC characters that are out of Superman's league in terms of power. He's still an organic entity powered by radiation, but there are immortal beings in the DC Universe that are made of mystical/cosmic energies that surpass even the strongest living DC characters. There wouldn't be a JL if no one could touch him.

The time Venom was handing Superman his tail until Spider-Man saved him from near death.

Venom was drastically overpowered in that story. At one point, he was manhandling both Spider-man and Superman. However, I thought the old symbiote-down-the-throat strategy was a good one.

 

[Loki882]

You people need to learn how to read between the lines with the scene like this. Superman wasn't being too powerful here. He's in the level he's supposed to be. WW might not fully held back physically but had she wanted to harm him she would have drawn her sword. She didn't. It rediculous how WW fans got mad because she couldn't beat him with raw power alone. If Superman lost in a fist fight with WW who's also a better fighter and has the best combat skill of them all what'd be the point of having him around?

Aquaman was out of his element(water) and was new to the job. The Flash was new to his power and had never fight ANYONE at that point. Cyborg had trouble controling his own limps let alone fighting Superman.

Batman could never harm Superman without Kryptonite. Surely even the most avid Batfans know that's the fact.

For once we have a movie when Superman doesn't get laughted at for being a wimp or getting his ass kicked but that's too much for a lot of people.

You need to understand what people's problem isn't with Wonder Woman losing. It's the curb-stomping that they don't like. They want her to at least look like she has a chance. Here, it comes across like she's nothing compared to him (he was rag-dolling her with ease). And they don't even keep her power level consistent with the other films, on in this film itself.

And I don't care what their explanation for it is, you don't write scenes where Superman pwns the entire JL himself, or effortlessly beats the villain that the rest of them struggled with as a group. Those, plus the JL not even trying to deal with things themselves before jumping to the "we need Superman to handle this," makes the entire team look weak and superfluous.

It'd be the equivalent of having Hulk run through the entire Avengers team with ease. Which Marvel doesn't do because they're smarter than that.

This was just a stupidly-conceived idea meant to glorify one character at the expense of everyone else.

 

[souperman]

I just wish they'd kept him the same as in MoS. I loved how he still struggled to keep the Oil rig up and him getting knocked out a couple of times by Faora n co.

I also miss how realistic they made him lifting things, like the oil rig. In "real life" (I know this is a comic book movie just shut it) I'm pretty sure that apartment building would've collapsed right? Just because he is incredibly strong doesn't mean Earth's physics get thrown out the window.
Would've much preferred actually seeing him safe people and them responding to the fact that he is alive again. Instead, we got a joke.

I see your point. I think the idea is to have Superman's power be like a muscle. The more you exorcise it , the stronger it gets, which is why over time, the more punishment he takes the stronger he gets. Muscles grow by damaging them. You work out which rips the muscle tissue, forcing it to repair itself. It grows in response to the damage which is what I think we see with Superman.

He was not as strong in MOS as he was in BvS. He survived a nuke which made him strong enough to "work thru" handling the kryptonite spear and slaying DD. At least that's my take on it.

In JL, he is even more powerful from being resurrected/reborn. He does have a billion Kryptonian's DNA in him that may help!

 

[valmont]

You need to understand what people's problem isn't with Wonder Woman losing. It's the curb-stomping that they don't like. They want her to at least look like she has a chance. Here, it comes across like she's nothing compared to him (he was rag-dolling her with ease). And they don't even keep her power level consistent with the other films, on in this film itself.

And I don't care what their explanation for it is, you don't write scenes where Superman pwns the entire JL himself, or effortlessly beats the villain that the rest of them struggled with as a group. Those, plus the JL not even trying to deal with things themselves before jumping to the "we need Superman to handle this," makes the entire team look weak and superfluous.

It'd be the equivalent of having Hulk run through the entire Avengers team with ease. Which Marvel doesn't do because they're smarter than that.

This was just a stupidly-conceived idea meant to glorify one character at the expense of everyone else.

This!!

 

[souperman]

You need to understand what people's problem isn't with Wonder Woman losing. It's the curb-stomping that they don't like. They want her to at least look like she has a chance. Here, it comes across like she's nothing compared to him (he was rag-dolling her with ease). And they don't even keep her power level consistent with the other films, on in this film itself.

And I don't care what their explanation for it is, you don't write scenes where Superman pwns the entire JL himself, or effortlessly beats the villain that the rest of them struggled with as a group. Those, plus the JL not even trying to deal with things themselves before jumping to the "we need Superman to handle this," makes the entire team look weak and superfluous.

It'd be the equivalent of having Hulk run through the entire Avengers team with ease. Which Marvel doesn't do because they're smarter than that.

This was just a stupidly-conceived idea meant to glorify one character at the expense of everyone else.

The simple explanation is just like Superman vs Batman in BvS. The JL team is not trying to kill Superman...only to restrain him.

Same reason that in a fight/struggle with a "loved one" the party trying to stop the fight gets hurt more because they don't want to harm the other party...too much.

AM, had no chance against him although Snyder said that the pitchfork could cut his flesh. But he is too slow for Superman. Cyborg, we do not know his full power but it seems he is not strong enough and his weapons are similar to the Kryptonian's that Superman withstood. Flash is fast but not fast enough or strong enough to do anything but run away...

WW, is very powerful...but she has the power of the old gods that were killed. She was trying not to harm Superman. She was about to use her bracelet power on him but he was too fast and stopped her. She withstood a head butt into the ground so she can take a hit.

Superman is Superman. He is the most powerful and should be. He grows more powerful over time and "as needed" similar to the Hulk. The more he is challenged the greater is response.

 

[valmont]

The simple explanation is just like Superman vs Batman in BvS. The JL team is not trying to kill Superman...only to restrain him.

It doesn't make sense:
Superman>SW>JL
Even a serious JL would be flattened by SM, he is much more powerful than everyone else combined, thus making them unnecessary.

 

[souperman]

It doesn't make sense:
Superman>SW>JL
Even a serious JL would be flattened by SM, he is much more powerful than everyone else combined, thus making them unnecessary.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm not suggesting that JL using all their power could defeat a determined Superman. Superman is by far the most powerful and I enjoyed how he was depicted man-handling the team and as AM said, handing them their a**.

I was merely saying that they were not trying harm him. WW tried to use the least amount of power against him at first and raised the power as she saw it was not working. She thought the bracelet slap may slow him down but since SW survived it, Superman would too.

The only thing making the team necessary is that Superman can't be everyplace at once and that he has psychological vulnerabilities like Lois and Martha. These always give the team something to do, like when he left the fight to save civilians, the team had to keep fighting...

As Batman suggested. Superman is stronger than a planet.!

 

[valmont]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm not suggesting that JL using all their power could defeat a determined Superman. Superman is by far the most powerful and I enjoyed how he was depicted man-handling the team and as AM said, handing them their a**.

I was merely saying that they were not trying harm him. WW tried to use the least amount of power against him at first and raised the power as she saw it was not working. She thought the bracelet slap may slow him down but since SW survived it, Superman would too.

The only thing making the team necessary is that Superman can't be everyplace at once and that he has psychological vulnerabilities like Lois and Martha. These always give the team something to do, like when he left the fight to save civilians, the team had to keep fighting...

As Batman suggested. Superman is stronger than a planet.!

Only Superman fans are interested in seeing that.

That's outright disrecpectul to other characters (especially the other powerhouses), they are not some kind of second wheels that can be used when superman does not bother himself with the threat of the day

 

[souperman]

Only Superman fans are interested in seeing that.

That's outright disrecpectul to other characters (especially the other powerhouses), they are not some kind of second wheels that can be used when superman does not bother himself with the threat of the day

Not at all. And it's not Superman "not bothering" or choosing what is worth his time...fully. Sure, he may choose not to "always" intervene in mundane rescues or tasks. The FBI isn't called in for simple crimes.

Going strictly by what has been depicted in movies, and a comic book thanks since they have had stories that have wild ranges of powers and storylines , Superman would have the ability to defeat any character by sheer logic of what has been shown.
We are talking about superman in a fight. A death match. And an angry no holds barred superman cannot be defeated. He always comes back. Even from death. He always prevails. The goodness prevails

Like the Incredible Hulk, he become stronger as necessary so in a fight, eventually if he wasn't sacrificing himself, he would win.

That is not to say the other members are useless. Obviously we have skills and talents that he does not. he cannot connect with technology like cyborg, he does not have the strategic warfare skills of Diana… Yet… Batman has the strategy Flash has the speed force which we have not yet truly seen. But it seems in a race they are fairly and equally matched… So far

 

[valmont]

Not at all.
Going strictly by what has been depicted in movies, and a comic book thanks since they have had stories that have wild ranges of powers and storylines , Superman would have the ability to defeat any character by sheer logic of what has been shown.
We are talking about superman in a fight. A death match. And an angry no holds barred superman cannot be defeated. He always comes back. Even from death. He always prevails. The goodness prevails

Like the Incredible Hulk, he become stronger as necessary so in a fight, eventually if he wasn't sacrificing himself, he would win.

That is not to say the other members are useless. Obviously we have skills and talents that he does not. he cannot connect with technology like cyborg, he does not have the strategic warfare skills of Diana… Yet… Batman has the strategy Flash has the speed force which we have not yet truly seen. But it seems in a race they are fairly and equally matched… So far

If he has the power of defeating anyone, what's the point of a team?

So you want him to be much more powerful than her, and have the same strategic warfare skills? Am I understanding this correctly? Why not give him the lasso of truth while we are at it?
Tell me a do you WW in a JL team with Superman, what should she bring according to you?

He always prevails. The goodness prevails

That can be said about most Superheroes

 

[souperman]

If he has the power of defeating anyone, what's the point of a team?

So you want him to be much more powerful than her, and have the same strategic warfare skills? Am I understanding this correctly? Why not give him the lasso of truth while we are at it?
Tell me a do you WW in a JL team with Superman, what should she bring according to you?



That can be said about most Superheroes

I don't want him to be...he is.

If he wasn't, they would not have needed him. WW should have done Superman did...if she could have. She couldn't. Bruce also says the team needs Clark, and Superman to bring the team together.

I think Superman and WW have been depicted as "equals" in terms of leadership and strength of will and overall "goodness". WW brings a womanly/motherly love and compassion and understanding along with centuries of experience that she will "teach" with her leadership to the team but Superman is undeniably more powerful in terms of strength. He has moved planets, turned back time, stopped earthquakes, survived a nuclear explosion.! and so on.... No contest on pure power.

And yes..."good" triumphs in most stories.

 

[valmont]

I don't want him to be...he is.

If he wasn't, they would not have needed him. WW should have done Superman did...if she could have. She couldn't. Bruce also says the team needs Clark, and Superman to bring the team together.

I think Superman and WW have been depicted as "equals" in terms of leadership and strength of will and overall "goodness". WW brings a womanly/motherly love and compassion and understanding along with centuries of experience that she will "teach" with her leadership to the team but Superman is undeniably more powerful in terms of strength. He has moved planets, turned back time, stopped earthquakes, survived a nuclear explosion.! and so on.... No contest on pure power.

And yes..."good" triumphs in most stories.

You missed my point, I said much more powerful and same skills.
You seem to want everything for Superman: power+WW skills.

Womanly/motherly??? so much clichés, you don't want her to change diapers while we are at it? She is much more than that, stop reducing her to her gender/sex.

Once again, if he is that much more powerful, the team does not serve any purpose, next movie (if it ver happens), all this guys can stay at home, Superman will take care of everything.

 

[souperman]

You missed my point, I said much more powerful and same skills.
You seem to want everything for Superman: power+WW skills.

Womanly/motherly??? so much clichés, you don't want her to change diapers while we are at it? She is much more than that, stop reducing her to her gender/sex.

Once again, if he is that much more powerful, the team does not serve any purpose, next movie (if it ver happens), all this guys can stay at home, Superman will take care of everything.

I think you are the one reducing her role to gender/sex. I for one feel that "a woman's" touch and motherly instincts and love are very powerful indeed. If you recall, her first instinct was to try to reason with Kal-El, remind him of who he was. She did not get angry at him like a man might.

"Love" is what stopped Batman from murdering Superman. Love is what stopped Superman from killing all of the JL especially Batman when Lois arrives and "reminds" him that love exists. WW is a beacon of love. She doesn't need to be able to kick Superman's as* to be powerful. Don't underestimate it's power to "win".

And again, I am not wanting anything for Superman...he is depicted that way. He was written that way. He is perceived that way.


...as for the skills, do you really think Superman could not eventually learn her fighting skills if he wanted to?

Her true power is not the fighting skills but her love.

 

[valmont]

I think you are the one reducing her role to gender/sex. I for one feel that "a woman's" touch and motherly instincts and love are very powerful indeed. If you recall, her first instinct was to try to reason with Kal-El, remind him of who he was. She did not get angry at him like a man might.

"Love" is what stopped Batman from murdering Superman. Love is what stopped Superman from killing all of the JL especially Batman when Lois arrives and "reminds" him that love exists. WW is a beacon of love. She doesn't need to be able to kick Superman's as* to be powerful. Don't underestimate it's power to "win".

And again, I am not wanting anything for Superman...he is depicted that way. He was written that way. He is perceived that way.

No no, you are the one who introduces the womanly/motherly thing, don't project your own opinions on me.

Yeah yeah, WW is loving, caring..., but once again she is much more than that, I'd like it to be properly showcased.

Superman is depicted having more skills than WW? More powers yes...but not the skills. That's why you said:

"he does not have the strategic warfare skills of Diana… Yet…"

The yet implies that you think that he should also have that on top of his vast powers.

...as for the skills, do you really think Superman could not eventually learn her fighting skills if he wanted to?

Her true power is not the fighting skills but her love.

Of course he could, not as good as WW, but why not?
But let's admit that he had skills as good as her with greater powers, what would be the point of WW in this team?

Her true powers are both. Period.

 

[souperman]

No no, you are the one who introduces the womanly/motherly thing, don't project your own opinions on me.

Yeah yeah, WW is loving, caring..., but once again she is much more than that, I'd like it to be properly showcased.

Superman is depicted having more skills than WW? More powers yes...but not the skills. That's why you said:

"he does not have the strategic warfare skills of Diana… Yet…"

The yet implies that you think that he should also have that on top of his vast powers.



Of course he could, not as good as WW, but why not?
But let's admit that he had skills as good as her with greater powers, what would be the point of WW in this team?

Her true powers are both. Period.

Not that he "should" but that he "could" in time..train as she did. Learn.

In STM, Superman "learns" the knowledge of 11 known galaxies and has a brain hundreds of thousands of years more advanced than humans.

WW has lived most of her life cloistered on an island living in a cave!

Only kidding, but you must see that he "could" - he "has" the ability to learn the things she knows...don't you. WW can never acquire or "learn" the power he has. It is in his DNA.

Don't diminish her role by trying to compare apples to apples. This is apples to oranges. Different animals. A tiger cant fly, but if an eagle lands near it the eagle has no chance just as a great white shark, terror of the seas has no chance fighting a mouse if the fight happens on land. The mouse just has to step back a wait...