Justice League Next version of Superman needs to be powered down...a lot!!!

[The Batman]

I think trying to depower Superman is a terrible idea, and is an example of the lack of creativity that has dragged the character down in recent years.

They tried the whole depowered thing in the first season of the JL cartoon, and that version utterly sucked. It wasn't until they powered him up (and didn't make him look 60 years old) that George Newburn's Supes really took off.

 

[TheVileOne]

“I’ve kidnapped all the people you love in the world Superman, and imprisoned them in a lead lined box somewhere secret. If you don’t do exactly what I say, I’ll slaughter them.”

There. Done.

Yeah I don't think it's that hard really. Lead is a weakness for him because his powers are impervious to it. He can't see through it. He can't burn it with his heat vision, etc. So if someone were hiding kryptonite in a box of lead, he wouldn't be able to detect it.

Magic is a weakness for him too and could conceivably trap him.

Or there's always fighting a guy who has strength to deal with him, such as a Lantern Corp. member because the Power Rings have strength enough to deal with Superman. Once again, a Power Ring can split an atom. It doesn't require a lot of energy, just effort.

 

[Rocanrol]

I think trying to depower Superman is a terrible idea, and is an example of the lack of creativity that has dragged the character down in recent years.

They tried the whole depowered thing in the first season of the JL cartoon, and that version utterly sucked. It wasn't until they powered him up (and didn't make him look 60 years old) that George Newburn's Supes really took off.

I think that overpowering Superman is a terrible idea, and is an example of lack of creativity that has dragged the character down in past years.

They tried the whole overpowered thing since the silver age comic books, and that version utterly sucked. It wasn't until they powered him down (and didn't make him look like a nonsensical teen-fueled power fantasy) that the character really took off.

 

[TheVileOne]

What is overpower though? We aren't asking to invent multiple contrived powers, but there are plenty of ways to deal with it as has been pointed out earlier.

 

[metaphysician]

No, but what "we" are asking is that the Justice League not be Superman and his Mostly Redundant Friends. Superman does not need to be a quantum leap beyond the whole rest of the team, because what makes Superman Superman is not "being the strongest one ever". Its his sense of morality, convictions, and leadership that make him Superman. And I feel like there are far too many people who find it more important that Superman be able to beat everyone up ever, than that he be a moral exemplar.

In summary, sure, Superman should be the strongest, in terms of "he's the brickiest of the team". He should not be *the most powerful*, in any broader manner. He has his niche and his specialties, just like every other member of the team.

 

[The Batman]

I think that overpowering Superman is a terrible idea, and is an example of lack of creativity that has dragged the character down in past years.

They tried the whole overpowered thing since the silver age comic books, and that version utterly sucked. It wasn't until they powered him down (and didn't make him look like a nonsensical teen-fueled power fantasy) that the character really took off.

This is what happens when someone gets so hurt over a post, they make a failed attempt at being clever instead thinking things through.

Not only does Season 2 JL/JLU Supes have little to nothing in common with Silver Age Superman, Silver Age Superman was most likely more popular in his era than later versions were in theirs, and writers are still using ideas and concepts from that era to this day, so the idea that SA Supes lacked creativity is utterly comical.

 

[Rocanrol]

What is overpower though? We aren't asking to invent multiple contrived powers, but there are plenty of ways to deal with it as has been pointed out earlier.

Power creep has always been a great problem with Superman, and all his problems get solved by him punching stronger and stronger, while his enemies get unapologetically stronger without any second thought. And when is not his phisical strenght that get tested, he suddenly gets FTL levels of speed and reaction time, a quantum-computer for a brain, can hold his breath forever, and hear and see everything at any distance. He basically becomes God, only that more boring and in blue tights.

Power creep is a problem that infected this film in particular, because suddenly his power levels are not consistent with previous iterations (and the best explanation is due to superman ex machina), suddenly he is faster, stronger and every problem is solved because Superman.

That is cheap soap-opera writing and a teen power-trip. When you make a character so bright, so powerful and so perfect in a team-comp film, every other character gets relegated to the shadows.

It's the opposite that happens with Batman... because every other character is so ridiculous, when Batman enters the equation, every other character gets dumbed and powered down, so you can make the struggle believable and consistent in some kind.

That's why Batman's stories work best in solo runs, because it doesn't have to be compared to kid's show levels of writing that other superheroes need to be interesting. Because suddenly he is relatable, his conflicts human and his pain real. And other characters shine too when they look human too; by making Superman weaker as a hero you actually make him stronger as a character.

When the only thing you got is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

 

[BH/HHH]

One of the greatest Superman stories ever told 'All Star Superman' had an extremely overpowered Superman. It was a huge part of the story.

As for de powering him the best example I've seen was in Superman the Animated Series, and that worked wonderfully there.

My point? There are ways to tell great stories with Superman of different power levels. So even if in Justice League Superman may have been "overpowered" that doesn't mean he can't face further threats that can't stand up to that.

 

[Rocanrol]

This is what happens when someone gets so hurt over a post, they make a failed attempt at being clever instead thinking things through.

Not only does Season 2 JL/JLU Supes have little to nothing in common with Silver Age Superman, Silver Age Superman was most likely more popular in his era than later versions were in theirs, and writers are still using ideas and concepts from that era to this day, so the idea that SA Supes lacked creativity is utterly comical.

Not hurt at all! Tried to be funny, because I think the exact opposite of what you do, that's all!

I do think that it does have a comparison point, because the problem per se is power creep and consistency. SA Superman (and comics in general) have that power escalation problem, because writers don't have enough time to come up with great stories constantly when working around the clock. That's why personally I prefer graphic novels or short runs that have a closed thought-out narrative arc, and don't come up with hilarious and derranged problems and characters to keep things interesting or stupid cliffhangers to sell the next comic magazine.

JLU had some problems with power consistency too, but it usually hold the line of how Superman's power were portrayed. But they blew it with its last conflict with Darkseid, totally undermining him like a villain, with that comic-***** cardboard world speech.

 

[Matt]

I think a power level on par with TAS/Superman and Supergirl on the CW show is pretty ideal. Not too godlike, but not too weak. Its a nice middle ground.

 

[Matt]

Also, not for nothing, I don't think power-level is the primary problem with the character. Characterization is. Warners seems to have gotten in their mind that there is a need to make Superman dark, conflicted, broody, and tragically flawed to make him relatable. Audiences don't need that. Look at how well Captain America has been received. In addition, the best on screen portrayal of Superman since Reeve has been Tyler Hoechlin. The reason why? CHARACTERIZATION. It is the Superman we know and love.

This article explains it perfectly.

Depowering or upping his power isn't the answer. The answer is simply writing a character that audiences enjoy watching.

 

[Rocanrol]

One of the greatest Superman stories ever told 'All Star Superman' had an extremely overpowered Superman. It was a huge part of the story.

As for de powering him the best example I've seen was in Superman the Animated Series, and that worked wonderfully there.

My point? There are ways to tell great stories with Superman of different power levels. So even if in Justice League Superman may have been "overpowered" that doesn't mean he can't face further threats that can't stand up to that.

I agree that AS:S is one of his greatest stories too, but after a story like that you can't keep Superman relevant in that iteration.

I'm not against a superpowered hero (I do like Superman godlike powers from time to time), but appreciate when there is a growth in the character, and some consistency too.

An old man Superman, that relatively stopped aging because of his constant sun-radiation absortion? I root for that story! But after that, how much of a story, of a struggle you can tell?

 

[The Shape]

I think a power level on par with TAS/Superman and Supergirl on the CW show is pretty ideal. Not too godlike, but not too weak. Its a nice middle ground.

Nah. CW's Supergirl (and The Flash) aren't great examples, because they're de-powered and dumbed-down way too much at times. Supergirl gets her ass kicked by everyone, it seems.

 

[FunkMiller]

Depowering or upping his power isn't the answer. The answer is simply writing a character that audiences enjoy watching.

Amen. People really want to see Superman be Superman. Taking him away from his core personality traits was a huge, huge mistake that Cavill’s Superman will never recover from.

 

[Greens]

How about we have him powered just right.

 

[Rocanrol]

 

[MaceB]

DC fans are the worst. We spend decades begging to give us a real Superman fist fight. Now that we actually have a Superman who can fight, and fly, and lift, and sprint.. and now, it's too much.

As far as I can tell, Superman is an exceptionally difficult character to work with. Too nice, not nice enough, too boy scout, not boy scout enough, not enough smiles, too many smiles, too happy, too sad, not heroic enough, not hopeful enough, must be this strong, no, not that strong. Give me a break.

 

[jfurioso]

Wait, you are trying to say that since Superman is stronger than Wonder Woman she can never win?

I have choked unconscious people a lot stronger than me through proper technique.

 

[Matt]

Amen. People really want to see Superman be Superman. Taking him away from his core personality traits was a huge, huge mistake that Cavill’s Superman will never recover from.

Yep.

A well written Superman will be entertaining whether he is so powerful that he can reverse Earth's rotation and travel through time ala Reeve, or is getting his ass kicked by Supergirl such as Hoechlin. Its telling that the two best Supermen are the ones who are also written most faithfully to the character, embracing his core traits rather than trying to "fix" him. Power is secondary in this equation. A character that has endured for nearly a century doesn't need to be fixed. Superman is already beloved. So just give audiences Superman. The rest will fall into place.

 

[BH/HHH]

I agree that AS:S is one of his greatest stories too, but after a story like that you can't keep Superman relevant in that iteration.

I'm not against a superpowered hero (I do like Superman godlike powers from time to time), but appreciate when there is a growth in the character, and some consistency too.

An old man Superman, that relatively stopped aging because of his constant sun-radiation absortion? I root for that story! But after that, how much of a story, of a struggle you can tell?

You can easily just make the threats more powerful. I'd say it's probably, the case that Darkseid is a far more powerful foe than Steppenwolf. Even Metallo could be given he has Kruptonite. I actually think Superman was probably as powerful in JL as he was by the end of Man of Steel. In that film he isn't bleeding when fighting Zod, nor is he really struggling. In BvS we saw what happened when Kryptonite came into play. Superman was beaten senseless. So there are ways to weaken him with his current power level intact.

 

[Rocanrol]

You can easily just make the threats more powerful. I'd say it's probably, the case that Darkseid is a far more powerful foe than Steppenwolf. Even Metallo could be given he has Kruptonite. I actually think Superman was probably as powerful in JL as he was by the end of Man of Steel. In that film he isn't bleeding when fighting Zod, nor is he really struggling. In BvS we saw what happened when Kryptonite came into play. Superman was beaten senseless. So there are ways to weaken him with his current power level intact.

That's power creep. This kind of challenges should be well thought and planned, and the escalation in strenght and power growth should be paced.

IMO Darkseid should be the ultimate depiction of raw power and strenght, phisically overpowering SM. But nonetheless this should had made SW a ragdoll against SM, that was inconsistent and nonsensical.

 

[DeadlyDiarrhea]

When talking about Superman being "overpowered", it's more in comparison with the rest of the league. Really though, why should Superman be depicted as overwhelmingly more powerful than the rest of the league? Is there any other reason than being the most powerful for the sake of it and the story must be written around that? I don't see how that's a good idea.

When talking about being able to challenge him in non-physical ways, the same applies to all the other league members, so I don't see how this is a good justification.

 

[FunkMiller]

That's power creep. This kind of challenges should be well thought and planned, and the escalation in strenght and power growth should be paced.

IMO Darkseid should be the ultimate depiction of raw power and strenght, phisically overpowering SM. But nonetheless this should had made SW a ragdoll against SM, that was inconsistent and nonsensical.

Any villain that just poses a physical threat to Superman is boring. Boring. Boring. Boring. Boring.

There has to be a psychological dimension, otherwise it’s just one superpowered meathead hitting another superpowered meathead.

Superman doesn’t need depowering. He just requires conflict that tests his morality, ethics, emotions and psychology, along with his physical capabilities.

 

[TheVileOne]

The sequel to Marvel vs. DC had Venom being more than a handful for Superman .

 

[bubbadoom]

gotta keep his the strongest so when Darkseid shows up and kicks his ass it will mean something...