Nice guys finish last

[SpideyVille]

People are always when the first 4-letter word flies out of my mouth. I apparently don't look like someone who cusses.

Yeah, I learned to stop judging a person until I got to know them personally and also see how they react around other because sometimes people aren't who you think they are when you first meet them. Like this one girl I knew liked me told me she didn't curse, and I thought it was pretty cool how she wasn't foul-mouthed like most other girls are where I live. But then one day she was talking to her friend and I learned more about her from that conversation because she showed me that she wasn't the quiet, shy girl that I pegged her out to be.

For example a "nice guy" may label some boyfriend a "jerk" because he goes and hangs out with his friends [sometimes] instead of spending all his time with the girl, but that's not really "bad" behavior. Parents and friends don't magically disappear from your life when a girl arrives, so it shouldn't strike anyone as odd that guys and girls will have occasions where they spend time with those people (and not together). Anyone can warp most normal behavior into something jerk-ish depending on how they wish to preceive the person. I think a lot of "women like jerks" is just a matter of projection. The "nice guy" projects all their negative traits onto whatever he preceives as his competition.

I knew this one girl who would always complain about her ex, and make him sound like he was the worst guy ever, an yet she would still hang out alone with him, and I think they got back together for a while. He wasn't bad in that he was a horrible person, but more because of the way he treated her and constantly lied to her about everything. But then months later, I wwas with her and a friend who asked if they were still together, and she said no, and that he wasn't a bad guy, just a bad boyfriend.

So I guess some people don't really look at a person's character, but rather how they treat their girlfriend, and use that as a basis to judge them as a person.

In my experience, people tend to try and justify their world views and not own up to their faults, so that is how you get the cliche of women wanting "the bad boy" over "the nice guy" when the reality of that is more often than not, the nice guy who loses to the bad boy lost because he was too passive or made no move/hid his intentions behind some cryptic veil. Usually if you can't find anyone that wants you, it is something you're doing wrong. Not everyone else. Isolated rejection might be the fault of who you hit on, but it is probably yours when it becomes a trend.

It took me a while to realize that I was the reason why things would always turn out bad, and after looking at myself and my faults, I realized that I would make a pretty lousy boyfriend unless I made some changes, not for a girl, but for myself.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Just to give some deference to "bad boys", it's not bad to have a few vices. I think it makes you more human and maybe even a little vulnerable, which I think is not a bad thing. Prince Charming isn't real, and I think nice guys get wrapped up in this, assuming that if they create this character the story will play itself out. Unfortunately for Prince Charming waiting until a girl is unconscious to steal her away with his love is still sexual assault.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

All that bs phrase does is serve the egos of a lot of not-so-nice guys who think they are nice, and who finish last for a reason, ie they are jealous, arrogant little bores who think they are better than other people, and underestimate intelligent women who sense their negative qualities.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I knew this one girl who would always complain about her ex, and make him sound like he was the worst guy ever, an yet she would still hang out alone with him, and I think they got back together for a while. He wasn't bad in that he was a horrible person, but more because of the way he treated her and constantly lied to her about everything. But then months later, I wwas with her and a friend who asked if they were still together, and she said no, and that he wasn't a bad guy, just a bad boyfriend.

So I guess some people don't really look at a person's character, but rather how they treat their girlfriend, and use that as a basis to judge them as a person.

There's definitely some truth to this. A girl I actually quite liked had a boyfriend when we were "together". She wasn't a bad person, just kind of mixed up in the head maybe. She was this nice, sweet girl with a bit of an edgey sense of humor. I think it would've been very easy for me to be openly dismissive of her if I were on the outside looking in. I mean all we ever did together was do drugs and have sex, but she had a rough childhood and there was a real person under there and she eventually stopped hanging out with me. She wasn't doing all this to be mean though. Moreover, if you met her you'd never in a million years think she'd do any of this. Outwardly she was such a typical Southern sweatheart you'd think needlepoint was the highlight of her day. The point is people are complex, and they have a lot of facets to them, so I don't think it's fair to pigeonhole them into some sort of ideal. Had I put her on a pedestal, it wouldn't have been very long until she fell off of it. People are just people, and for the most part they're no better or worse than you or I. I think when that's put in perspective it becomes easier to let go of your insecurities and faults because you realize everyone has them.

 

[JAK®]

All that bs phrase does is serve the egos of a lot of not-so-nice guys who think they are nice, and who finish last for a reason, ie they are jealous, arrogant little bores who think they are better than other people, and underestimate woman who sense their innate negative qualities.

This is pretty much it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

How often are 25 year old virgins who are mean, brutish jerks?

Almost never.

You see these meek, gentle virgins and you'd figure some chick along the way would throw him some "mercy poon" but no, it doesn't happen.

Then you see the jerks and often enough they have some hot chick on their arm. These are the first guys to dump a chick after sex or talk trash about girls to everyone. Yet they're never lonely. Why is that? Shouldn't this guy be the last one to get any action?

It's sad. If getting laid was based on good karma every guy on the planet would be a "nice guy". There would be no crime or war. It would be a utopia.

 

[JAK®]

How often are 25 year old virgins mean, brutish jerks?

Almost never.

Maybe not brutish (at least in the sense I assume you are using it) but mean jerks? Probably a lot. You know those annoying nerdy trolls on the internet who you bet have never touched a girl in their life? I'd say they were mean jerks. But I bet they would complain about being a nice guy.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's all about effort. That 25 year old virgin didn't try hard enough (or if he did, he was doing it really poorly), so he naturally didn't get any chicks. The jerk doesn't care if he gets momentary rejection. He tries anyway.

Trying is the only way to be on a path to success. Not trying guarantees failure.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

This is pretty much it.

Ha!

I see as long as you agree with a gross generalization then it's acceptable.

 

[SuperFerret]

Are we talking about just getting laid or having a real lengthy relationship? It would seem to me that the "nice guy" might not have his pole polished quite as much, but he'll actually have meaningful sex with the women he gets.

Maybe the nice guy does finish last, but even then, he's the winner.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

How often are 25 year old virgins who are mean, brutish jerks?

Almost never.

You don't have to be brutish to be mean

You see these meek, gentle virgins and you'd figure some chick along the way would throw him some "mercy poon" but no, it doesn't happen.

You don't see how, I dunno, thinking women are just a sloppy hole you need to insert your penis in might be construed as, I dunno, mean?

Then you see the jerks and often enough they have some hot chick on their arm. These are the first guys to dump a chick after sex or talk trash about girls to everyone. Yet they're never lonely. Why is that? Shouldn't this guy be the last one to get any action?

Wait? You think people with girls are not lonely??? Yeah, the reason I have all these girls' phone numbers is because I'm not lonely.

It's sad. If getting laid was based on good karma every guy on the planet would be a "nice guy". There would be no crime or war. It would be a utopia.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Maybe not brutish (at least in the sense I assume you are using it) but mean jerks? Probably a lot. You know those annoying nerdy trolls on the internet who you bet have never touched a girl in their life? I'd say they were mean jerks. But I bet they would complain about being a nice guy.

Again, trolling on the internet is in no way an indication of how you treat women.

But I'd love to see a scientific study on the matter. lol!

 

[LOBO3315a]

Do you mean getting laid, or getting laid by a hot chick? Because those are 2 totally different things.

One of the things I'm always amazed about is how low most women's self-esteem is. My X-wife had the self-esteem of a worm when we met, yet she was physically a dead ringer for Lisa Bonet. It took her years to build her self-esteem back up, and that confidence attracted her current husband to her, and she left me.

Since being divorced, I can't tell you how many attractive women I've met who think that they aren't "worthy" of a nice guy. They somehow think they deserve to be treated like crap, so that's the kind of guy they go for.

That's why I never market myself as a 'nice guy'. Nice guys will let you walk all over them, and thank you for it afterwards. I always bill myself as a decent person. I won't steal from you, or wreck your car, but I won't let you walk all over me, either.

 

[JAK®]

Ha!

I see as long as you agree with a gross generalization then it's acceptable.

Complaining about an entire gender is far more of a generalisation than agreeing with an analysis on a subset of people who express certain behaviour.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Are we talking about just getting laid or having a real lengthy relationship? It would seem to me that the "nice guy" might not have his pole polished quite as much, but he'll actually have meaningful sex with the women he gets.

Maybe the nice guy does finish last, but even then, he's the winner.

I think there is a lot of truth to this, but at the same time, I do feel that the stereotypical nice guy would find that meaningful relationship more easily if they tried harder. That is what I think a lot of nice guys are guilty of. They are not forward enough, and that leads to confusion or flat out not sending their message to the girl they want. How can you attract a mate when what your doing makes no sense? All too often, I see this mistake made.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Ha!

I see as long as you agree with a gross generalization then it's acceptable.

1) I seem to remember a while back you b*tching about being in "the friend zone".

2) If you want to get laid, and don't care about a relationship, do this:

• Find a bar, preferably not an expensive one.
• Go there
• Get annihilated
• Do this for a week straight every single night
• One of those nights you'll probably score
• You're not allowed to be mad if she looks like a trainwreck

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Ha!

I see as long as you agree with a gross generalization then it's acceptable.

A truly 'nice guy' would never use that phrase in trying to explain why he has no luck with women. By using that phrase, all he is doing is saying there is something wrong with the women, rather than taking a good look at himself and trying to figure out of what he is doing wrong.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You don't see how, I dunno, thinking women are just a sloppy hole you need to insert your penis in might be construed as, I dunno, mean?

I don't have to be a nice guy to defend nice guys. Would I have to be a philanthropist to defend charity?

Wait? You think people with girls are not lonely??? Yeah, the reason I have all these girls' phone numbers is because I'm not lonely.

Way to miss the point.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

A truly 'nice guy' would never use that phrase in trying to explian why he has no luck with women. By using that phrase, all he is doing is saying there is something wrong with the women, rather than taking a good look at himself and trying to figure out of what he is doing wrong.

He's right. "If you have a problem with everyone you meet the common denominator is you not them".

 

[Soundwave]

"Girls" prefer "Bad Boys". "Women" prefer "Good men".

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

He's right. "If you have a problem with everyone you meet the common denominator is you not them".

Truly nice, intelligent people are difficult to come by in this life. I tend to get on very well with that type of person, but unfortunately there are a lot of crafty not so nice people who know how to fake it. Sometimes it is only over time that you discover who the truly good ones are, the bad guy's act always breaks down after a while, or is exposed by the goodies.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't have to be a nice guy to defend nice guys. Would I have to be a philanthropist to defend charity?

But you're not defending "nice guys". Nice guys get by just fine from my perspective.

Way to miss the point.

You said "yet, they're never lonely". Lonely is a state of mind. I didn't miss the point, you assumed that getting laid or having women around means they're not lonely...that assumption is false.

 

[SuperFerret]

He's right. "If you have a problem with everyone you meet the common denominator is you not them".

Technically the common denominator is humanity, unless you're one of those people that other animals don't like either.

I feel bad for those that don't even have plants and rocks like them.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

A truly 'nice guy' would never use that phrase in trying to explain why he has no luck with women. By using that phrase, all he is doing is saying there is something wrong with the women, rather than taking a good look at himself and trying to figure out of what he is doing wrong.

I'll give you a scenario.

Dave is gives to charity and rescues animals. He approches a co-worker, Lisa, who shows no interest. Later that month Brad brags about how he slept with then dumped Lisa. Dave wonders how Brad could get so far with Lisa then concludes after other similar experiences that women go for jerks.

Is there something wrong with Dave or the taste of these women? If somethings wrong with Dave then why did these women choose guys capable of dumping them after sex over him?

 

[SpideyVille]

There's definitely some truth to this. A girl I actually quite liked had a boyfriend when we were "together". She wasn't a bad person, just kind of mixed up in the head maybe. She was this nice, sweet girl with a bit of an edgey sense of humor. I think it would've been very easy for me to be openly dismissive of her if I were on the outside looking in. I mean all we ever did together was do drugs and have sex, but she had a rough childhood and there was a real person under there and she eventually stopped hanging out with me. She wasn't doing all this to be mean though. Moreover, if you met her you'd never in a million years think she'd do any of this. Outwardly she was such a typical Southern sweatheart you'd think needlepoint was the highlight of her day. The point is people are complex, and they have a lot of facets to them, so I don't think it's fair to pigeonhole them into some sort of ideal. Had I put her on a pedestal, it wouldn't have been very long until she fell off of it. People are just people, and for the most part they're no better or worse than you or I. I think when that's put in perspective it becomes easier to let go of your insecurities and faults because you realize everyone has them.

Yeah this reminds me of this girl I know now. I met her through a mutual friend last semester, and while she's really pretty, I felt like she wasn't the type I should bother with since I saw how she acted when she was with her friend in class. Now we have an animation class together and I offered to help her out since she doesn't know how to use Flash, so we talk a lot during class, and by getting to know her, I realized I was wrong about her for the most part. She's not a mean girl at all, even though she tries to be tough. But she too has been going through a rough time. I met her sister and she told me how they have been living in a car for the past few weeks while they've been moving in between their parent's home. And slowly I've become more comfortable about opening up in front of her without worrying about making myself look bad.