Nice guys finish last

[Optimus_Prime_]

You can...but if you're already close platonic friends with someone...I think it is a bad idea to now introduce romance. You're changing the dynamic of the relationship. IF you met someone and had 3 lunches with the person at a social party...and you're interested in learning more about each other, that's another thing. But you pretty much know whether you're interested in someone after meeting them for a little while...or that's how its been for me. Being friends with someone for along while and then trying to convert it into romance doesn't bode well.

Bingo.

In the case of what you said it would never be a right time because it's your friend's wife. The female is married. To your friend. Hell, it would never be the right time if it was a stranger's wife. I doubt anyone in this thread has been encouraging adultery.

We're not talking about the morals of the situation, we're talking about whether or not it's a good idea to be friends with someone while you are waiting for them to like you. If someone's wife came onto me, and I wasn't friends with that person, I might in fact have sex with that person. But I'm not going to ruin a friendship by introducing sex somewhere when that's not the relationship I'm looking for with that person.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Let's say I DID like someone's wife? Would it be appropriate for me to be "friends" with that person, and would you think this would work out well in the future?

 

[LOBO3315a]

No, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

Friendships can be based on many things. Sexual attraction is a viable reason to be friends with someone. However, if the feelings aren't reciprocated, then it's just as viable to not be friends with that person.

Let's say you meet someone at a hobby shop, and decide to talk to them, thinking they might have the same hobby as you. If you find out they don't share the same interest as you (Say painting over RC models) then it's the same thing. You don't have any mutual interests, so its fine if you don't want to be friends with them.

But being friends with someone to get in their spouce's pants is bad form.

 

[RockSP]

We're not talking about the morals of the situation, we're talking about whether or not it's a good idea to be friends with someone while you are waiting for them to like you.

Well you and I obviously haven't been having the same conversation in this thread. From my perspective this thread has been about single people. There is no way to not talk about the morals if we are bringing married people into it, for me.

If someone's wife came onto me, and I wasn't friends with that person, I might in fact have sex with that person. But I'm not going to ruin a friendship by introducing sex somewhere when that's not the relationship I'm looking for with that person.

...wow.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

No, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

Friendships can be based on many things. Sexual attraction is a viable reason to be friends with someone. However, if the feelings aren't reciprocated, then it's just as viable to not be friends with that person.

We can also turn this around. If you're a guy, and you knowingly let on a girl who is sexually attracted to you (someone you aren't), then that's both not very nice and not really a good idea either. Feelings and friendships are bound to get hurt.

Let's say you meet someone at a hobby shop, and decide to talk to them, thinking they might have the same hobby as you. If you find out they don't share the same interest as you (Say painting over RC models) then it's the same thing. You don't have any mutual interests, so its fine if you don't want to be friends with them.

I actually think that's a poor example, but I think I see where you are going with that . I think people get too hung up on the "wife" aspect of that story, because it would be pretty immaterial to me if she got a divorce tomorrow (other than I wouldn't care for it). If a girl is hot though there usually has to be something about her that rules her out if we're going to be "just friends". Friends sisters can be tricky for me too. There are a few girls who were 11 or 12 when I went to college, and I never saw them for 6 or 7 years, if they grew up to be hot I still have trouble "sexualizing them" in my mind.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Well you and I obviously haven't been having the same conversation in this thread. From my perspective this thread has been about single people. There is no way to not talk about the morals if we are bringing married people into it, for me.



...wow.

Funny thing about marriage vows. They generally say you will love, honor, and cherish that person, forsaking all others, as long as you both shall live *ahem*. Sorry, threw up in my mouth a bit, there.

It never says anything about not having sex with other people. You can be monogomous, and not married, why is the inverse such an issue with most people?

Sex isn't some sort of sacred act that indicates you love, honor, and cherish that person more than someone else. It can be an indicator, but not always.

I think jealousy is the driving factor in why most people stay monogomous. Either their spouses, or their own.

 

[Hound55]

I think society kind of considers it to be covered under "honour".

But the way Western society is "honour" is practically dead anyway...

 

[Anubis]

I've always felt we would all be better off living in group marriages anyway.

But even if you're f**king five people, somebody will cheat.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

...wow.

I've never understood why this is such a shocker. First of all, to clear the air, it's never happened. Second the funny thing about marriage vows is people interpret them to mean what they want. It would be nice, I'm sure, to live in a world where things were simple and all married women simply stopped craving sex when they got married. That they all wised up and were mature enough to stick with their vows, but I think every divorce attorney would hope this would never happen. There's all sorts of legitimate circumstances though where you could sleep with a married women. I think you have to remember people are f***ed up, usually in multiple ways. I certainly have a moral code, but it tightens and loosens depending on the scenario.

 

[Danalys]

Funny thing about marriage vows. They generally say you will love, honor, and cherish that person, forsaking all others, as long as you both shall live *ahem*. Sorry, threw up in my mouth a bit, there.

It never says anything about not having sex with other people. You can be monogomous, and not married, why is the inverse such an issue with most people?

Sex isn't some sort of sacred act that indicates you love, honor, and cherish that person more than someone else. It can be an indicator, but not always.

I think jealousy is the driving factor in why most people stay monogomous. Either their spouses, or their own.

it fails the test of honouring the spouse. and forsaking all others is a polite way of saying not sleeping around with others.

 

[Danalys]

I've never understood why this is such a shocker. First of all, to clear the air, it's never happened. Second the funny thing about marriage vows is people interpret them to mean what they want. It would be nice, I'm sure, to live in a world where things were simple and all married women simply stopped craving sex when they got married. That they all wised up and were mature enough to stick with their vows, but I think every divorce attorney would hope this would never happen. There's all sorts of legitimate circumstances though where you could sleep with a married women. I think you have to remember people are f***ed up, usually in multiple ways. I certainly have a moral code, but it tightens and loosens depending on the scenario.

well the conventional wisdom is that a lot of them are there already when it comes to their husband at least.

 

[Anita18]

I think jealousy is the driving factor in why most people stay monogomous. Either their spouses, or their own.

I think laziness is how most people around me stay monogamous. They're not the type to have one-night stands and it's too much effort to go behind their SO's back to nurture another relationship.

I did tell my bf that if I ever found out he cheated on me, my first reaction would be to laugh at him.

 

[Anita18]

I've never understood why this is such a shocker. First of all, to clear the air, it's never happened. Second the funny thing about marriage vows is people interpret them to mean what they want. It would be nice, I'm sure, to live in a world where things were simple and all married women simply stopped craving sex when they got married. That they all wised up and were mature enough to stick with their vows, but I think every divorce attorney would hope this would never happen. There's all sorts of legitimate circumstances though where you could sleep with a married women. I think you have to remember people are f***ed up, usually in multiple ways. I certainly have a moral code, but it tightens and loosens depending on the scenario.

I wouldn't ever be in an open marriage myself, but I can't tell other people what to do with their relationships. As long as everyone in said relationship is okay with it, then be my guest.

Your suggestion seemed to be the one where you'd go behind the husband's back though, and that's a danger zone. Then again I am the kind of person to avoid drama....

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I've always felt we would all be better off living in group marriages anyway.

But even if you're f**king five people, somebody will cheat.

If you meet a woman at a party, and she wants to hook up, do you run a background check first? Probably not. Could be married. It's always hard for me to blame the single guy or gal who gets caught up in an affair, especially if the wife/husband is attractive. I never signed a contract that said "I will never sleep with a married person", but I'm pretty sure in most cases they signed a contract that said "I will only sleep with this person".

I hate when people act as though they're above something. "I would never sleep with a married woman."Really?!? You're saying if Jessica Alba wanted to have sex with you, you'd pass that up? I'm above nothing. I can be a supremely kind and thoughtful person, then other times I can be very cruel. I think this gets back to the whole "white knight thing". "Nice Guys" seem overly focused on what society tells them is good or bad, specifically what women say is good and bad. "Jerks" are, at the very least, their own person, even if that person is incredibly horrible. When I do the right thing I hope it's because I want to, not because I have to or because people think I'm supposed to.

 

[Danalys]

I think laziness is how most people around me stay monogamous. They're not the type to have one-night stands and it's too much effort to go behind their SO's back to nurture another relationship.

I did tell my bf that if I ever found out he cheated on me, my first reaction would be to laugh at him.

you're saying you'd laugh at him for not being lazy, and not being satisfied enough with you, or just in it for the thrill which involves possibly hurting you.

i could imagine laughing if he threatened he had and you thought it ******** but you didn't say that.

 

[Anita18]

I hate when people act as though they're above something. "I would never sleep with a married woman."Really?!? You're saying if Jessica Alba wanted to have sex with you, you'd pass that up? I'm above nothing. I can be a supremely kind and thoughtful person, then other times I can be very cruel. I think this gets back to the whole "white knight thing". "Nice Guys" seem overly focused on what society tells them is good or bad, specifically what women say is good and bad. "Jerks" are, at the very least, their own person, even if that person is incredibly horrible. When I do the right thing I hope it's because I want to, not because I have to or because people think I'm supposed to.

I'm a nice person not because society expects me to, but because I've got a heightened sense of empathy and would feel bad about the person being cheated ON.

 

[Danalys]

If you meet a woman at a party, and she wants to hook up, do you run a background check first? Probably not. Could be married. It's always hard for me to blame the single guy or gal who gets caught up in an affair, especially if the wife/husband is attractive. I never signed a contract that said "I will never sleep with a married person", but I'm pretty sure in most cases they signed a contract that said "I will only sleep with this person".

I hate when people act as though they're above something. "I would never sleep with a married woman."Really?!? You're saying if Jessica Alba wanted to have sex with you, you'd pass that up? I'm above nothing. I can be a supremely kind and thoughtful person, then other times I can be very cruel. I think this gets back to the whole "white knight thing". "Nice Guys" seem overly focused on what society tells them is good or bad, specifically what women say is good and bad. "Jerks" are, at the very least, their own person, even if that person is incredibly horrible. When I do the right thing I hope it's because I want to, not because I have to or because people think I'm supposed to.

******** there's mountains of pressure on people to be bad that they cave into to.

for the rest we might not all be saints all the time but some manage it more than others and others have just given up and take short term gratification.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I'm a nice person not because society expects me to, but because I've got a heightened sense of empathy and would feel bad about the person being cheated ON.

That's good, and I completely agree with that. Fortunately, the few married women who have come onto me strongly, I've turned down, but I can certainly dream up scenarios where that might not be as easy to do. I think it's important for people to be comfortable with how powerful their sexuality can be, and what lengths it can drive us to.

 

[Anita18]

you're saying you'd laugh at him for not being lazy, and not being satisfied enough with you, or just in it for the thrill which involves possibly hurting you.

Because he would have put in all the effort to be in a relationship with me (patience was the name of the game) and he would be stupid to waste all that effort going behind my back when he could have just broken up with me first.

I think you've got to know my bf too. "Thrill" and "excitement" is the very antithesis of his idea of a good time.

Don't get me wrong, I'd laugh and then I'd probably break up with him.

I also have to disagree with the idea of someone "being satisfied" with the person they're in a relationship with. It's a give and take - that phrase "being satisfied" implies that one person has to make the effort to be sexually appealing to the other. It's objectifying. A relationship that only exists because of sexual attraction isn't that deep of a relationship, IMO.

 

[Danalys]

don't let the fear of being an object stop you from being.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I think a lot of people stay monogamous because their life was never all that exciting to begin with (I'm not saying mine is, btw), and they benefit from the extra stability (*hopefully* dual incomes, *hopefully* steady sex life, *hopefully* predictability). You can look at celebrities who don't really have any clear economic or professional benefits from marriage and see just how many one hour marriages they have. Take our loveable Charlie Sheen. Were he and I to trade places there would've been a proverbial mountain of real world consequences -- even without involving the authorities -- that would've interferred with his "b*tchin rockstar" and "winning" lifestyle.

 

[Danalys]

there's deeper things than excitement. they can be missed out on in all the excitement.

 

[RockSP]

I've never understood why this is such a shocker. First of all, to clear the air, it's never happened. Second the funny thing about marriage vows is people interpret them to mean what they want. It would be nice, I'm sure, to live in a world where things were simple and all married women simply stopped craving sex when they got married. That they all wised up and were mature enough to stick with their vows, but I think every divorce attorney would hope this would never happen. There's all sorts of legitimate circumstances though where you could sleep with a married women. I think you have to remember people are f***ed up, usually in multiple ways. I certainly have a moral code, but it tightens and loosens depending on the scenario.

I never said it was a shocker...hell, I see it all the time. Doesn't mean I have to think it's cool.

There have been several opportunities for me to screw other men's wives but it's not my thing.

Craving sex and acting upon every one of those cravings are two different things...which can relate back to the "hypothetical friend's wife" scenario.

I wouldn't ever be in an open marriage myself, but I can't tell other people what to do with their relationships. As long as everyone in said relationship is okay with it, then be my guest.

Pretty much. I personally have almost absolutely no interest in marriage, but I have no interest in pointless strife and drama either. So married broads are a definite no go.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

there's deeper things than excitement. they can be missed out on in all the excitement.

Wilt Chamberlain did once say "I've slept with 10,000 women, but I'd rather have slept with one woman 10,000 times", so I suppose the temptation to be monogamous is not lost on someone as famous as him. He didn't choose that lifestyle though, and that's worth noting as well. I think when you don't have money you certainly look for reason why you're better off than some rockstar. I always liked what Daniel Tosh said too: "Have you ever tried to frown on a jetski, it's impossible".

 

[Danalys]

well he said that with hindsight, so he's perhaps wiser than his younger self who made the choice he did.

i'm not better off than a rockstar living their life with the woman they love more than any they have ever loved and able to go anywhere and do anything with them that money can buy. i'm just better off than the really self destructive ones.

 

[Anita18]

don't let the fear of being an object stop you from being.

Sure, but cheating because you're "not satisfied" is like saying your partner was simply a sex toy and you moved on to the next model.

there's deeper things than excitement. they can be missed out on in all the excitement.

And some people don't even like "excitement" all that much.