The Dark Knight Rises No quick-cuts for the climax, please?

[Dark Phantom]

I want to know if other people agree with me here. In order to increase the level of suspense, Nolan has a habit of multiplying the jeopardy in a given climax. Instead of watching each individual situation unfold by itself, Nolan jumps back and forth between conflicts happening at the same time. It creates the feeling of chaos. I'm not just talking about the batman movies, but practically more recent films like Inception and to a lesser degree The Prestige.

Examples:

Batman Begins- train evaporating water into fear gas/ Gordon chasing after train/Batman fighting Ras

The Prestige*-

Spoiler

Borden is hung/ Angier discovers there was a double (flashbacks)

Inception - 4 layers of dreams that need to accomplish their objective and then synchronize to wake up

The Dark Knight- Batman has to find Joker with the detinator and stop his gang from harming the hostages/ 2 ferries are in a game of life and death/ Two-Face abducts Gordon's family**


I am not saying that the suspense doesn't work. I get it, it is Nolan's style. However, if he really wants to enthrall audiences, I really think he needs to step out of his comfort zone. Otherwise, when the climax for The Dark Knight Rises comes up, it is going to be very predictable how Nolan chooses to handle it. Why not give the climax some breathing room by making it intimate with Batman instead of rushing into what some other character is doing? A Batman movie desperatley needs a climax focused solely on Batman with his objective and no one else's. I'm talking about like a square-off between hero and villian; that poignant moment when the audience knows that this is the point of no return. I had no feeling of that in the last 2 films.

*some people may not have seen The Prestige

**I realize the scene plays afterward, but you get the idea that there's a lot at stake that you need to remember

 

[GlasgowBat]

While I can accept that over reliance of this can lead to it becoming stale, i still feel it's a very sophisticated, effective and enthralling method of storytelling. Some of my favourite comics do this as well.

I have no problem with it; it lends a.... grandiose feeling to the events.

 

[Rocketman]

Almost every movie ever made has done this.

 

[brett66]

It's getting a bit tired, but his scripts are generally too complicated to ever have an ending like Batman 89, for example.

 

[Dark Phantom]

While I can accept that over reliance of this can lead to it becoming stale, i still feel it's a very sophisticated, effective and enthralling method of storytelling. Some of my favourite comics do this as well.

I have no problem with it; it lends a.... grandiose feeling to the events.

I agree to an extent. It does envoke the entire scale, but I wish that once certain conflicts are resolved, the final conflict between batman and the villian would be saved for just the two. I would have loved a stand-off between Joker and Batman that painfully took its time. A few punches were pulled and that was supposed to satisfy my craving.

It's like when you ask out a girl for a date and your anticipating privacy, but then all of a sudden the night arrives and 4 of her friends you have in common with show up.

 

[GlasgowBat]

I can see your point, although i do feel that, with TDK at least, the real climax was with dent and gordon at the burnt out building.

For me at least, this was the ultimate culmination of the entire thematic path of the film (whilst still allowing space to continue some themes in the next film, but that goes without saying, and perhaps relates more to the themes themselves) and it was drawn out, a wrenching experience as we fully comprehend the damage the joker, and by proxy Bruce's mission(or his approach to his mission so far) has wrought.

This, as well as the conversation between joker and Batman after their fight, are the major climactic moments, and i feel they are both given the focus they deserve and warrant.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I would have loved a stand-off between Joker and Batman that painfully took its time.

after the end of the chase scene.

 

[EliteF50]

Agreed, in a way. Sometimes it breaks the focus, but sometimes it adds to the suspense.

However, I do want the quick cuts in the fight scenes back.

 

[Blader5489]

You are confusing quick cuts with just regular intercutting between scenes.

 

[Dark Phantom]

I think what I'm trying to say is I want another spider-man versus green goblin final fight

 

[EliteF50]

I think what I'm trying to say is I want another spider-man versus green goblin final fight

Agreed 150%, no... 350%!

 

[DACrowe]

If it's good enough for Coppola to use at the end of the Godfather films (and the middle of Dracula), Nolan is allowed to use it for Batman films. Especially as the entirety of The Dark Knight (and last third of Inception) were shot/edited this way and it created some of the most thrilling experiences audiences have had in years.

 

[Solidus]

If it's good enough for Coppola to use at the end of the Godfather films (and the middle of Dracula), Nolan is allowed to use it for Batman films. Especially as the entirety of The Dark Knight (and last third of Inception) were shot/edited this way and it created some of the most thrilling experiences audiences have had in years.

Agreed.

 

[the Wankstar]

I want to know if other people agree with me here. In order to increase the level of suspense, Nolan has a habit of multiplying the jeopardy in a given climax. Instead of watching each individual situation unfold by itself, Nolan jumps back and forth between conflicts happening at the same time. It creates the feeling of chaos. I'm not just talking about the batman movies, but practically more recent films like Inception and to a lesser degree The Prestige.

Examples:

Batman Begins- train evaporating water into fear gas/ Gordon chasing after train/Batman fighting Ras

The Prestige*-

Spoiler

Borden is hung/ Angier discovers there was a double (flashbacks)

Inception - 4 layers of dreams that need to accomplish their objective and then synchronize to wake up

The Dark Knight- Batman has to find Joker with the detinator and stop his gang from harming the hostages/ 2 ferries are in a game of life and death/ Two-Face abducts Gordon's family**


I am not saying that the suspense doesn't work. I get it, it is Nolan's style. However, if he really wants to enthrall audiences, I really think he needs to step out of his comfort zone. Otherwise, when the climax for The Dark Knight Rises comes up, it is going to be very predictable how Nolan chooses to handle it. Why not give the climax some breathing room by making it intimate with Batman instead of rushing into what some other character is doing? A Batman movie desperatley needs a climax focused solely on Batman with his objective and no one else's. I'm talking about like a square-off between hero and villian; that poignant moment when the audience knows that this is the point of no return. I had no feeling of that in the last 2 films.

*some people may not have seen The Prestige

**I realize the scene plays afterward, but you get the idea that there's a lot at stake that you need to remember

Youve been watching too many Plinkett reviews

 

[Brother Jack]

There was a lot of inter-cutting between scenes for action and suspense sequences, but the relational, dramatic moments had room to breathe. Just look at Batman and Joker's last scene together, there isn't anything else going on. Likewise the final confrontation with Two-Face is almost methodical in how it slowly builds tension. The climax to TDK isn't filled with super-quick editing.

 

[Bats]

I have no problem with what Nolan's done in his film finales. I DO, however, have one with the ending of "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace". That needed to be shortened IMO. Anyway.....I believe it was only 3 levels of dreams in "Inception" and not 4.

 

[Dark Phantom]

I have no problem with what Nolan's done in his film finales. I DO, however, have one with the ending of "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace". That needed to be shortened IMO. Anyway.....I believe it was only 3 levels of dreams in "Inception" and not 4.

Spoiler

remember when cobb and ariadne go into limbo?

C'mon guys, I'm not saying Nolan doesn't pace his films the right way, but I think it needs to be changed up. Let's have a final fight that is just as intimate and methodical as a Nolan moment full of dialouge

 

[Bats]

I do remember that now and not before. But I think that was their own dream state and not in general. Could count either way I guess except I would count everyone to be included in the dream world instead of 1 or 2.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Actually, I think it's brilliant. Nolan has established himself as a meta-noir writer before a director, nearly every single one of his films has an ending with a grand turnaround.

I would be complaining if he's handle of the narrative was as blatantly obvious as M. Knight Shamanamalahahlkanianses' but I think if anyone can pull it off it's Chris.

Climax are supposed to be grand. But I think what most viewers overlook is how he carefully places all his 'climaxes' (which spill over into denouements by the way) in a rather symbolic setting. In Batman Begins the final confrontation with Ra's took place in the Monorail, a symbol of Thomas Wayne's attempt to save Gotham's depression, now construed and used by Ra's as an instrument to destroy the city proper; later on Bruce and Rachel stand in the remains of Wayne Manor, now adults, and Bruce seals away the object of his fear, having conquered it, he also points at 'rebuilding' the sense of normalcy he'd once lost. in The Dark Knight both Batman and the Joker, larger-than-life entities at this point who are "fighting for Gotham's soul" clash high atop one of the city's tallest skyscrapers, overlooking the city like true elemental beings; the trio meets at the epicenter of a personal tragedy, now in ruins to reflect Harvey's distortion as well as the deconstruction of the alliance (and maybe of Batman's as well). In Inception the final confrontation with Mal occurs in Cobb's created dream, now on the verge of ruin, controlled by the Anima now empowered beyond imagination; 'twist ending' takes place inside Cobb's home, the place he's been dreaming to come to all story long. I can go on and on but you get the point.

If there's one director I DO NOT have a problem with regarding endings, it's Chris Nolan. Those jarring edits only make the overall cinematic quality richer for me. It feels like you're reading a book.

 

[gazzilla8000]

^^^
Great post.

I love Nolan's ability to juggle mutliple plot threads at once, and present them in interesting ways, sometimes not in chronological order. Its surprising and can turn a clinical progression of scenes into something memorable.

The ending of The Dark Knight where it has Batman and Gordon's voices over various shots of Batman being rejected from Gotham was absoloutely wonderful.

 

[Nevincer]

Youve been watching too many Plinkett reviews

This thread should be retitled "No Ending Multiplication Effect, please?".

 

[TassaElamaOn]

The Dark Knight- Batman has to find Joker with the detinator and stop his gang from harming the hostages/ 2 ferries are in a game of life and death/ Two-Face abducts Gordon's family**

I pretty much agree, because on a very related note, the rapid cuts were my biggest problem with TDK. It was like someone took an ax to the film in regards to edits and pacing.

After waiting two hours for the big main event between Batman and Joker, we get what really amounts to a couple of minutes of conflict between them. Go back and watch the climax, edited without the ferries and the Gordon drama, and you will see that 'Batman versus Joker' is incredibly quick, seemingly over before it really begins. Then again, it did work out very well in the end, all things considered.

Look at the final Joker monologue, though. Absolutely one of the best scenes in the film. Great cinematography to compliment a speech from the Joker that summed up Batman's new reality with the underworld of Gotham, one that went spiraling off the deep end into a laughing madness only to cut to the next scene without warning, phasing, fading, anything.

'Hahahahaaha--'
'Harvey letemgo!'

 

[DieSmiling]

I love the way Nolan edits his films.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

^^^
Great post.

I love Nolan's ability to juggle mutliple plot threads at once, and present them in interesting ways, sometimes not in chronological order. Its surprising and can turn a clinical progression of scenes into something memorable.

The ending of The Dark Knight where it has Batman and Gordon's voices over various shots of Batman being rejected from Gotham was absoloutely wonderful.

Thanks The bold part establishes a known truth that should be universally acknowledged! Can you imagine how flat that entire scene would've been without those close shots of Gordon preparing Gotham City for a new age of Batman? One where he's an outlaw, but still fighting for the greater good? It's downright brilliant.

 

[Robin91939]

I actually love it.

-R