The Dark Knight Rises Nolan Batman series to be 2 movies instead of 3?

[FlawlessVictory]

I've been kind of wondering lately with JLA getting the greenlight, could Nolan's set of Batman movies be 2 movies now instead of 3? Originally we knew there was going to be at least 3 Nolan Batman movies because of this quote from Goyer back in 2005:



"The next one would have Batman enlisting the aid of Gordon and [Harvey] Dent [aka Two-Face] in bringing down the Joker... but not killing him, which is a mistake they made in the first one."The article then says that "In the third, the Joker would go on trial, scarring Dent in the process."

http://www.superherohype.com/news/batmannews.php?id=2978



However, quotes from Aaron Eckhart indicate that we will be seeing Two-Face in TDK and not the third film as we were originally led to believe. Here are some of his quotes:


"I'm pretty stoked. I've wanted to work with Christopher ever since [Eckhart turned down the lead in MEMENTO -- Jett], and this is a really great character. You're going to see a good part of my face and then a good part of (the chemically disfigured) Two Face. I'll be looking at other personalities to get an idea of how to play this complicated guy."

"Yeah [regarding if he is just Harvey Dent in TDK -- Jett], well, I'm Harvey Dent...then I go into Harvey Two-Face."

http://www.batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html



This makes me think they may not be sticking to their original plan. It's quite possible that we may have the entire Harvey Dent/Two Face arc in just TDK. Also, IESB had to this mention about Bale's contract:


It’s important to remember that during the Batman Begins roundtables at WonderCon in 2005, Christian Bale told us that he had a clause in his contract that one of the three films he was signed on to do could in fact be an ensemble picture. Now, at the time, everyone was thinking Batman vs. Superman (please excuse the old school iesb) but it could just as easily be something like Justice League.

http://iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2119&Itemid=99



Who else besides Bale signed a 3 picture Batman deal? I think maybe just Michael Caine. I know Morgan Freeman didn't and I'm pretty sure Gary Oldman didn't as well. We also know that Nolan doesn't have any kind of deal to direct 3 Batman movies. If I am wrong, please correct me, but I'm pretty sure this is the case. So, it could very well be the case that there will only be 2 Nolan Batman movies instead of at least 3. And it could very well be that Bale's 3rd appearance as Batman will be in the JLA film instead of another Nolan Batman movie.

Anyway else see this as a possibility? Keep in mind this is WB we are dealing with.

 

[batmaluco]

Keep in mind this is WB we are dealing with.

Here it is a x-ray of a WB's executive's head.

If TDK makes them richer, they'll want him back, they could in fact beg, like a dog...

 

[odiin]

You do know his contract can be extended, right? It's not like after he's done 3 films he's never allowed to play Batman again. He can, and in all likelihood sign sign on for the third film.

Also no one even knows for sure when exactly the JLA movie is going to be, or if it even will ever actually be released at all. People need to stop worrying about this right now.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

You do know his contract can be extended, right? It's not like after he's done 3 films he's never allowed to play Batman again. He can, and in all likelihood sign sign on for the third film.

I totally understand that, but my point is that Nolan may not even have any intention to do a third Batman film anymore. It's quite possible that Nolan will have not have any loose ends after TDK that would require a third movie directed by him. I'm basing this on the fact that Goyer said in 2005 that we would be getting Two-Face in the third Batman film but now we know we will be getting Two-Face in TDK. Therefore, Bale could possibly end his Bat career with the JLA movie which would be his third appearance as Batman.

 

[Agentsands77]

It's a possibility. We'll have to wait and see. I imagine that there still is a Nolan BB3 in the future, and will continue to believe so until I hear otherwise.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Flawless you are reading way too much into this. They aren't going to ditch a third Nolan to do a JLA instead

 

[odiin]

Yeah, why do people always assume the worst case scenario is going to happen? Especially since all this is based on pure speculation anyway.

 

[wikum]

It won't happen.

Bale maybe signed on for three films, but surely they can't force him to do a film if he doesn't like the direction the film is going?

Batman is a man, he has no super powers. All the good work Nolan and Bale have done would be broken if this Batman turns up in a JL film.

However an adult targeted anime JL film with Batman and Joker and everyone in it would be pure gold. Chance of this? 0%. Where's the money?

 

[odiin]

It won't happen.

Bale maybe signed on for three films, but surely they can't force him to do a film if he doesn't like the direction the film is going?

Batman is a man, he has no super powers. All the good work Nolan and Bale have done would be broken if this Batman turns up in a JL film.

However an adult targeted anime JL film with Batman and Joker and everyone in it would be pure gold. Chance of this? 0%. Where's the money?

You don't know that Batman won't be in the JLA film, so don't pretend you do. All that "good work" Nolan and Bale did won't be affected in anyway, Nolan's Batman movies will be the same as they always were, JLA is a separate thing that won't affect that.

But yes, apparently he is under contract for three films, with one possible being an ensemble film, but even that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be only doing 2 batman films under contract and 1 JLA film. He'll probably do his 3 Batman films like he's planned too, and sign on for JLA separately.

Even if the JLA film was the third film in his contract, he can still sign on for the final Batman film (which I bet you everything in my wallet he will) Batman made him famous, he seems to enjoy playing him more than most comic book actors enjoy their characters, he enjoys working with Christopher Nolan, and it's already clear that Nolan won't be finished with Batman after The Dark Knight is through. Christian Bale WILL be back, regardless. Worst case scenario is that WB will just have to beg a little.

Also, I would just like to remind you all again that we know nothing about the JLA movie, we don't know who will be directing it, we don't know which characters will be in it, we don't know when it's coming out, or even if it will actually come out at all. It took, what, 20 years to get the first Spider-Man movie made after it was first planned?

If you want to constantly worry and ***** and moan about what COULD happen. Did you know that Christian Bale and/or the rest of the cast and crew COULD possibly be killed and or permanently disfigured tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after? They may as well pack it up and not even bother since something like that COULD possibly happen. no use in trying, right?

 

[FaT_tONle]

I just have a hard time believing Bale would sign for a fourth JLA film if it was about Aliens invading earth

 

[odiin]

I just have a hard time believing Bale would sign for a fourth JLA film if it was about Aliens invading earth

Fair enough, but he would know what he was getting into. He had already expressed desire to do a Superman Vs. Batman movie, this would only be an extension of the idea. You know I kind of think people are actually starting to confuse Christian Bale himself with the character he plays on screen. Just because Batman is portrayed as a dark, realistic character in Nolan's universe, doesn't mean the ACTOR Christian Bale wouldn't be interested more fun and fantastic like the JLA movie.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Well thats the reason everyone is so skeptical about a JLA... its certainly believable if heroes like Superman or WW were facing off against Darkseid, Braniac, or other unearthly DC villains... but how would it look if Batman was facing off against some big green headed alien... Batman in the movie raises all this skepticism... if WB moved on with the project without him we wouldn't be having this discussion. But JLA includes Batman (who is the number 2 guy) and there in lies everyone's problems with this film. Now I am not familiar with most of the JLA comics and don't want to insult the source material. But I don't think you can humanize or realistically do the Darkseids and the Braniacs without having a fantastical element and thats why skeptics don't want Batman in a live action version of a JLA because he doesn't fit in that sense. In Superman's own universe its fine.... YES I know Nolan's franchise is separate but people do not associate Batman taking unrealstic villains especially in a live action... I mean they did Freeze, Ivy and batgirl look what happened... I KNOW that B&R was doomed to failed and could've been done justice but the general public just couldn't buy it... but even the writers in Hollywood would have a tough time selling Ivy, Batgirl, and Freeze... and Freeze is anything but Darkseid anyway...

Thats why I am advocating if they want a crossover (which I don't think is a bad move at all) just stick to a World's Finest... Joker, Ras, and Luthor all have enough credibility and with their appearances in previous live actions and are capable of just as much damage to our heroes as any other DC villain... we all know Batman/Supes would be front and center of a JLA anyway. And if WB can't get the WW/Flash solo franchises on track you just wouldn't be able to do justice to the other founding members of the JLA in one movie. Its just an enourmous and impractical risk. But I am telling you a movie about Batman/Superman with the returning actors from the solos (Bale Routh Spacey and Bosworth though you could ditch her since she sucked) can be a Spiderman type film at the BO if done right... a JLA may fall flat on its face when you throw in the shananigans...

I am not saying a JLA can't be done... just wait for all the Bat/Supes franchises to be completed... let WB make their money... and THEN try and make a series out of the JLA. You can't do a JLA in one flick... it just can't be done... a 2/3 picture deal is the way to go. You can recast Batman/Superman (maybe Routh will stay if he can't find another job but he might be too old for a new franchise by then anyway) and start anew. If its a hit, do a WW/Flash spinoff from that. I think that is just much more practical... I don't have confidence at all WB can just make a near perfect JLA movie anytime soon. And when you are talking about a 300 million dollar budget if not more it makes no sense to me...

 

[odiin]

Well thats the reason everyone is so skeptical about a JLA... certainly its at least believable if heroes like superman or WW were facing off against Darkseid or other unearthly DC villains... but how would it look if Batman was facing off against some big green headed alien... Batman in the movie raises all this skepticism... if WB moved on with the project without him we wouldn't be having this discussion

But it's not as big of a problem as everyone is making it seem, I mean I understand their feelings and everything but it's really not that hard to think up clever things for Batman to do, there's no reason to kick out arguably DCs biggest money maker for something like that. I mean we don't even know WHO the JLA will be fighting, for all we know they could be fighting an army of whatever alien, robot supervillian cliche with a human ringleader that Batman could take down while everyone else fights off the rest of the villains, Batman could have Batman investigate on his own for most of the movie and we see sort of two sides to the story, and at the very end batman emerges at the last minute to press the evil robot lord's kill switch, or to come up with a cure to the mysterious disease, or just generally rough up a bunch of henchmen. Or, he could, you know just stay with the rest of the league and fight with them. I mean you could make the case for nearly any character and say "what are THEY going to do in a fight with blah blah blah" Certainly there would be plenty of times where Aquaman would be useless, or The Flash's super speed wouldn't do any good, but they've all god their own skills (batman included) and the screenwriters would easily be able to make every character shine in their own way.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I agree Batman could be like Logan and do his own thing most of the time and be the unsung hero in all of it... yes Batman can deal with the human villains... as a matter of fact thats how it needs to be done... just read the rest of my post above... thats how I want it done... but hey if WB thinks they can make a 350 million dynamite JLA with returining actors and the whole thing GO for it... but how can you establish that kind of team in one flick and put it all on the line like that? You just have to do WW, FLash, and Lantern solos to explain their origins between now and a JLA instead of clumping it all in one movie and I am not sure that will be done. My bet is that this talk is just a studio messing with our minds that doesn't even know exactly what it wants after SR underperformed.

 

[odiin]

Hmm, I understand where you're coming from but I think we just have fundamentally different views on this.

For instance I am completely and totally against recasting for this, unless it's like 10 years down the line and the current franchises are all old news. For me it's not JUST about seeing all the heroes together on film, it's seeing them in their current screen incarnation with people we already associate with the roles. It just wouldn't have the same effect having new people in the role, and for me, would turn this film from a "must see" to a "eh, don't really care. I'll rent it once it's on DVD." If they can't get the original actor, they may as well just use a different character instead (Which they probably would since WB, wisely, is against having too many different interpretations of the characters dilute the market) There should only be ONE screen interpretation of batman at a time, anything more and people will tune out

and I still don't think it would ruin the Batman franchise, first because it probably won't even be made until after the third Batman is already in development, so it's not like it could retroactively make the regular movies worse at that point, and even if it's made before the third movie, I think people are smart enough to tell the difference between Christopher Nolan's dark, realistic films, and the Justice League movie (which could still be dark and realistic in its own way). Plus it's not like it matters anyway, no matter how bad things get Batman can ALWAYS bounce back. He's done so before when moving from the campy (but fun) TV series to the 88 film, and again from Batman and Robin to Batman Begins.

And yeah, just doing a World's Finest movie would be a great idea as well, but if they seriously have the will to do a Justice League film (and especially since it will help jump start the franchises of some of the other characters) I say, let them go for it. Everybody seems so caught up in thinking that this will automatically be terrible that they don't take the time to think... What if it's good, what if it's VERY good? This is seriously a once in a lifetime opportunity. Who knows when the movie climate will be right again for a full on Justice League movie? This could very well be the only chance this film has of ever getting made.

and all this stuff about would COULD go wrong, in the end none of that will be important it will all be old news that no one cares about anymore, but the movie... That will be there for ever, and that's what's important.

 

[the_freshdude]

yeah but the thing is wouldn't be better to do a movie for each of the superheroes that are gonna be in it, so the audience can familiarize themselves with the characters just like the marvel movies, since we already know so much about bats and supes?

 

[Agentsands77]

^Exactly, freshdude. I would think WB would want to establish a few other films before doing JLA - Flash and Wonder Woman, at the very least.

 

[COMPO]

well, Batman coudl be the computer expert. Like while, they all fight he sneaks into the base mainframe and blows up the main computer.

 

[odiin]

yeah but the thing is wouldn't be better to do a movie for each of the superheroes that are gonna be in it, so the audience can familiarize themselves with the characters just like the marvel movies, since we already know so much about bats and supes?

Of course, and remember that there ARE Flash and Wonder Woman movies in development, plus we really don't know when exactly they're planning on releasing the JLA movie. So I definitely think that we'll be getting at least one of those movies before hand, but like I mentioned earlier; It's better for some of the lesser characters to get their start in the Justice League movie first and THEN spin out unto their own franchise, simply because most people wouldn't CARE to familiarize themselves with say, Martian Manhunter, unless he was thrown into their faces.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I will just say I don't have a problem if they had to recast Superman/Batman... why? Because so many different portrayals of the character have been seen already. We know what Routh brings... we know what Bale brings. And despite the contrary... Bale would have to play a completely different Batman to fit in a JLA... he can't be that hard nosed type, he has got to be that calm, collected, detective type. I am NOT saying Bale can't do that... but its just not the Batman that he established. Everyone knows what Batman/Superman stand for. It won't kill it if other actors had to step in. You can't convince me that Bale and Routh would sign for an additional 3 films to do a JLA series... but again if WB just wants to make a ONE time movie and break the bank the joke is on them. Who would be the villains anyway? If its alien invaders I am not interested... even a villain like Darkseid teaming with Bizzaro and Doomsday and Braniac and anyone else no one has heard of WILL NOT sell either... its just not gonna work unless its some ingenious plot with a sense of realism that even comic book films have.

Thats why the solos of the other members (WW, Flash, GL) and the Superman sequels have to be the buildup to a JLA movie. Its all gotto to lead in into one story told over 3/4 different films that do not relate to each other directly. Batman can step in the middle... Nolan doesn't have to play with his movies... but The Man of Steel, Flash, WW solos all have to be interconnected into a broader scheme before a JLA. I am not saying Flash needs to have cameos in Singer's Superman or WW and stuff like that. But you gotto give the impression that these antagonists and heroes are living in the same universe (making references to Gotham in SR is simply NOT enough) Does WB really have that broad a picture? Think about that... that would be bigger than 2 LOTR trilogies... That would be arguably the biggest gamble in cinematic history and I doubt a JLA will be a Titanic at the Box office... again only time will tell. What I need are some plot ideas with people that know the source material... I went over to the DC section and nothing has peeked my interest... I have been looking into it myself a bit but haven't come up with much (and I happen to be one of the more creative types)... maybe someone can help me out

 

[odiin]

Yeah, I definitely agree that if they wanted to make a JLA franchise and a united film universe, what you're saying would probably be the best way to go.

But I really, really, REALLY don't see this as being anything more than one film. Sure, in 10-15 years they could reboot all the film series' and do what you said and that would be awesome, but for THIS Justice League movie that they're talking about doing now, I don't think that would really work. Remember that just like there have been multiple film incarnations of Batman and Superman, there can be a new Justice League "franchise" in the future, but I'm talking about what would be best for her and now, assuming that this movie does actually get produced relatively soon. If not then, yeah, do what you're saying, but it would take a LOT of careful planning, and would be a huge gamble.

 

[GregComicFan]

I also agree. If the folks at the WB were true geniuses, the best way to make a JLA film would be to follow the example set by the DC animated universe (the cartoons from 1992 to 2005). Here is the formula:

Batman is introduced (B:TAS)
Superman is introduced (S:TAS)
Superman and Batman meet (World's Finest 3 part episode)
Superman episodes introduced the Flash and Green Lantern
(skip Batman Beyond)
Justice League cartoon brings Bats, Supes, Flash, GL together plus newcomers Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl and Martian Manhunter.

Take it one step at a time.

How does this translate to film? Let Nolan do Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. In his third Batman film, let there be mention of Superman (he doesn't have to be shown, just mention him somewhere in the movie to acknowledge his existence). In Byran Singer's Superman trilogy, have the third movie acknowledge Batman's existence.

Let the Wonder Woman movie get made. Let the Flash movie get made. Have both those movies mention Batman, Superman, etc.

Then let the JLA movie bring them all together. There you have it: A DC film universe.

Of course, this would never happen, since it would mean putting the JLA movie on the backburner until the year 2020, after Nolan and Singer's trilogies are complete, and both WW and Flash are movies.

but hey, it's a good idea.

Greg

 

[odiin]

I'm totally against any real mention of other heroes in the series that they have going on right now. Well Batman specifically, I wouldn't mind someone doing a cameo in Superman. It would be disastrous to undermine the directors vision and force these characters in to each other's films ESPECIALLY Nolan's gritty, realistic Batman. Seeing Superman pop out or even mentioned at all would ruin it.

With how the movies are *now* it would work best to have each director do their own thing on their own franchises, but have the characters they've create come together exclusively for the JLA movie.

Now, like fatty mentioned earlier, a decade or so from now if WB were clever and careful they could come up with a unified DC film universe, but it would be BAD to force that on the films with have now, and just keep the team up stuff to it's own movie.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

^I am hoping for that.

 

[the_freshdude]

i still just think it's a bad idea to do a jla movie, i'm sure it's gonna be as goofy as fantastic four.I'm not even gonna talk about the smallville episode.