The Dark Knight Nolan needs more imagination.

[zanos]

But Nolan's Batman isn't really realistic and that's what a lot of detractors don't seem to really get. They keep bringing up realism without ever really comprehending what that means and why it's wrong when frankly, it's completely and utterly moot.

As he once said himself - it's a universe that's credible.

In the same way you can argue Raimi's Spider-man is credible. Sure, nobody is going to be really bitten by a DNA-altered spider and become a super-hero but it was presented in a way in which we could buy into it.

And that is what Nolan is doing.

In the end, if it's not a take you like, then fine but sometimes I just wish people would stop using realism when it's just not a viable argument.

No disrespect meant to you of course, game.

The beauty of any film is you don't need to make ppl believe it can happen in a real world setting. All you have to do is make Batman's world believeable within the context of the film. That's all that matters. That is not what Nolan has attempted to do. Not only has he handcuffed himself but attempting to justify why a grown man would wear a "bat" suit to fight crime simply makes the idea of Batman silly and stupid.

 

[The Only Woj]

electro-current cape material, jumping tank, microwave emitter, bat beacon. there are definitely other 'fantastical' elements in there. the biggest contrast is using a 'real' city as opposed to gothic-style buildings. and Nolan did this, as he had stated, because having a fantastical character like Batman on a gothic backdrop doesn't contrast the same way a Batman in the real world does. because he stands out more that way. having Batman jump off a building at the end of the movie and fly towards the camera should kill any 'it's too grounded in reality' arguements.

 

[thegameq]

Grounded in realism, is different than confined to it. We'll find out in TDK.

Hmmmmmm.......perhaps a better question to be asked is what are the drawbacks to using the realism approach in comicbook films altogether, rather than singling out BB.

Interesting.....

 

[Octoberist]

And for God's sakes, how realistic is a leader of a 1000 year old ninja cult who wants to destroy a city with 'fear gas'? It's still fantasy; you're just missing the Lazarus Pit...ohhhhh...big deal....oohhhh!

 

[sasquatchs]

Nolan's said he was going for Richard Donner's Superman kind of realism, so I don't think that Nolan's painted himself into any kind of corner with this. It just forces him to examine each character's motivations properly

 

[Octoberist]

exactly...

 

[vibeke_T]

dude, the title of this thread is rude

 

[Octoberist]

It's one of threads that mods hesitate to leave on. Usually civil debates become heated arguments. Luckily, it hasn't been too bad and everyone's on the down low.

It's a good discussion, i guess...

 

[thegameq]

It makes me sad that a lot of people here want to see a fantasy comic batman movie than just a good semi-serious movie. Why cant a comic book movie be a good movie with a sense of realism to it?

Because comicbooks are artistic fantasy and the films should at least try and emulate that. It's like taking Star Wars or Spider-man and trying to make it realistic. Why? It's fantasy. Is there something so gravely wrong with fantasy? Do you think Nolan's approach could work with Spider-man? How much of the..."texture", of Batman's world was sacrificed in Nolan's film?

I'd like to add that I think Nolan's film feels like it needs to break out; it's as if the film or character of Batman is being held back. It's as if Nolan can only go so far lest he break the rules of the world he created. I keep waiting for that quintessential Batman moment that puts a smile on my face the way the scenes of SM swinging through NYC or SM's battle with Doc Ock (god I love those scenes) atop the city and a train.

Granted it's the first film of course. Wishing greatly, with fingers crossed that TDK will become the Batman comicbook movie fans have been waiting for.

 

[JStorm]

Because comicbooks are artistic fantasy and the films should at least try and emulate that. It's like taking Star Wars or Spider-man and trying to make it realistic. Why? It's fantasy. Is there something so gravely wrong with fantasy? Do you think Nolan's approach could work with Spider-man? How much of the..."texture", of Batman's world was sacrificed in Nolan's film?

I'd like to add that I think Nolan's film feels like it needs to break out; it's as if the film or character of Batman is being held back. It's as if Nolan can only go so far lest he break the rules of the world he created. I keep waiting for that quintessential Batman moment that puts a smile on my face the way the scenes of SM swinging through NYC or SM's battle with Doc Ock (god I love those scenes) atop the city and a train.

Granted it's the first film of course. Wishing greatly, with fingers crossed that TDK will become the Batman comicbook movie fans have been waiting for.

NONE. And I can name an ion of comics to prove it.

 

[raybia]

Hmmmmmm.......perhaps a better question to be asked is what are the drawbacks to using the realism approach in comicbook films altogether, rather than singling out BB.

Interesting.....

Each movie is different. Even in the comics, Batman seems out of his element when paired with superpowered beings, taken out of Gotham and put into incredible fantasic situations. This in turns forces writers to amp up Batman's abilities beyond normal just so he can engage in battle, instead of staying in the background doing nothing.

My point is that, when it comes to Batman in the movies, grounded realism is the best approach.

However for me, "grounded realism" is just another way of saying, verisimitude. An indepth look at BB will reveal that it is in fact very unrealistic.

 

[Octoberist]

Because comicbooks are artistic fantasy and the films should at least try and emulate that. It's like taking Star Wars or Spider-man and trying to make it realistic. Why? It's fantasy. Is there something so gravely wrong with fantasy? Do you think Nolan's approach could work with Spider-man? How much of the..."texture", of Batman's world was sacrificed in Nolan's film?

I'd like to add that I think Nolan's film feels like it needs to break out; it's as if the film or character of Batman is being held back. It's as if Nolan can only go so far lest he break the rules of the world he created. I keep waiting for that quintessential Batman moment that puts a smile on my face the way the scenes of SM swinging through NYC or SM's battle with Doc Ock (god I love those scenes) atop the city and a train.

Granted it's the first film of course. Wishing greatly, with fingers crossed that TDK will become the Batman comicbook movie fans have been waiting for.

Don't confuse opinions with facts. To my knowledge, Batman Begins is still a well liked with fans and non-fans. If you're talking about..let's say "Catwoman", "Batman & Robin" or "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", then your statement might fly.

There's people who didn't like the movie, but outright hate it. But please, don't spread something that isn't there. Think about it.

 

[batmaluco]

However for me, "grounded realism" is just another way of saying, verisimitude. An indepth look at BB will reveal that it is in fact very unrealistic.

Yes, that's why I think that Nolan needs less imagination and even more reasonings and character development.

And yes, Nolan's Batman is still entirely unrealistic, I mean, I can add to the examples already mentioned here by other posters, the fact that he was put in fire by Scarecrow and didn't have a single burn in his face, that wasn't protected at all.

And that nobody in Wayne foundation at least observed the disappearance of the Tumbler and its bustle resurgence on TV (only painted in black as the difference) and made the math.

For me this require as much suspension of disbelief as Clark Kent's glasses effect.

 

[JStorm]

dude, the title of this thread is rude

vT, you are the bestest.

It's rude, man!!

 

[Miranda Fox]

The complainers should really take a look at a copy of Aronofsky's Year One script.

That, my friends, is what a truly realistic Batman would've been like. And, as a Batman film, it was terrible - a bastardisation of the mythos in the true sense of the word.

It was a good script when viewed as a thriller, though...

 

[Catman]

I don't think Carnotaur suggested any such thing in his post.

Yeah, I know, but I've read enough of those types of replies to realize that its how most people feel around here.

But Nolan hit the nail on the head. Batman is flesh and blood. He bleeds.

Bleeds? Honestly, I don't recall that. HOWEVER, I do recall a bloody Michael Keaton walking to the top floor of a church in 1989's Batman.

I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. Seriously, there's no need to be so defensive.

It was just a general observation.

Uh..no. Batman's world is utter fantasy. It has absolutely nothing to do with our reality in any way. When you start grounding fantasy characters in realism you're doing a grave injustice to that character because you're basically neutering them.

Agree to some degree.

Nolan's movie lack iconic imagery and atmosphere.

Yup.

Aw, you're no fun, Officer Krupke.

Agreed.

 

[Crooklyn]

The complainers should really take a look at a copy of Aronofsky's Year One script.

That, my friends, is what a truly realistic Batman would've been like. And, as a Batman film, it was terrible - a bastardisation of the mythos in the true sense of the word.

It was a good script when viewed as a thriller, though...

The problem with the script was in no way due to it's realism. The "bastardization" you speak of is from the lack of adapting a character properly i.e. dramatically changing every aspect of the mythos.

Just take a look at the comic book Y1, and you'll see that everything there is pretty much unarguably very down-to-earth.

 

[Miranda Fox]

The problem with the script was in no way due to it's realism. The "bastardization" you speak of is from the lack of adapting a character properly i.e. dramatically changing every aspect of the mythos.

Oh god, the characterisation...I really hated the way Bruce was portrayed in that script.

Just take a look at the comic book Y1, and you'll see that everything there is pretty much unarguably very down-to-earth.

Fair point but...the script just didn't work for me. There were supposedly realistic aspects that had me going 'buh!?'

The Lincoln Town Car with a school bus engine being the one that really springs to mind. It's not that I mind the idea of a prototype Batmobile at all, it just...I don't know, I really didn't like it.

 

[Catman]

Aronofsky's script was interesting. Yeah, it changed A LOT, but I thought his Bruce Wayne and James Gordon were AWESOME. If he would have stayed faithful to the source material we could have had an awesome movie.

 

[Crooklyn]

Oh god, the characterisation...I really hated the way Bruce was portrayed in that script.

Funny thing is I haven't really read it and I'm only going by others' reviews.

Fair point but...the script just didn't work for me. There were supposedly realistic aspects that had me going 'buh!?'

The Lincoln Town Car with a school bus engine being the one that really springs to mind. It's not that I mind the idea of a prototype Batmobile at all, it just...I don't know, I really didn't like it.

I can't really envision what that type of Batmobile would be like, but the concept was going in the right direction. I wasn't a fan of BB's take that Bruce just painted a W.E. military vehicle black. Seemed way too careless imo, as now people know where the car originates from.

I much prefer Bruce taking parts from here and there, and using that to customize a car (like what he did with the batsuit and cowl). But eh...I'm rambling.

 

[JStorm]

Funny thing is I haven't really read it and I'm only going by others' reviews.


I can't really envision what that type of Batmobile would be like, but the concept was going in the right direction. I wasn't a fan of BB's take that Bruce just painted a W.E. military vehicle black. Seemed way too careless imo, as now people know where the car originates from.

I much prefer Bruce taking parts from here and there, and using that to customize a car (like what he did with the batsuit and cowl). But eh...I'm rambling.

I like the idea, I do. But if the batsuit was neglected rather than the batmobile or vice versa, would we be complaining about something else?

Six in one, 3 dozen in another.

 

[Miranda Fox]

Funny thing is I haven't really read it and I'm only going by others' reviews.

It's an interesting read, I'll give it that.

I can't really envision what that type of Batmobile would be like, but the concept was going in the right direction. I wasn't a fan of BB's take that Bruce just painted a W.E. military vehicle black. Seemed way too careless imo, as now people know where the car originates from.

I like the concept of Bruce making it himself, don't get me wrong, but it just seemed like the fact that he happened to have grown up in a garage was an elaborate and pointless set-up for him coming up with the Batmobile.

I can link to somewhere where you can read the script if you'd like.

Aronofsky's script was interesting. Yeah, it changed A LOT, but I thought his Bruce Wayne and James Gordon were AWESOME. If he would have stayed faithful to the source material we could have had an awesome movie.

*nods* I wouldn't mind Darren getting a shot at directing in the future, if he worked from a faithful script. And agreed about Gordon - his and Dent's characterisations were good however, I gotta disagree about Bruce. That guy was truly and openly bat**** crazy.

 

[Hunter Rider]

vT, you are the bestest.

It's rude, man!!

What do suggest it be called ? i mean the guy feels Nolan needs more imagination so that's what he titled the thread,

 

[Catman]

I gotta disagree about Bruce. That guy was truly and openly bat**** crazy.

I don't know. I just liked how he wrote letters to his dead father.

 

[Miranda Fox]

I don't know. I just liked how he wrote letters to his dead father.

That was a nice concept - and I like how he burnt them all at the end but overall, the Bruce in that script was just all wrong.

IMO, of course.