Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

Well... of course? There are many interpretations of Batman. That's because the hero and his world lends itself to multiple interpretations. There's no one singular solidarily defined mythos to argue about faithfulness towards.

P. S. Some of your "Batman would never do this in the comics" critiques are laughably silly.

 

You seem to think that those things are integral to the character, when they aren't. I don't have to answer your question because the question is silly, irrelevant, and pointless, and doesn't get at the issue of what it means to create a Batman story that faithfully depicts the character.

 

Around the same time it looked like black rubber.....oh wait it never did.

Ok, I'll show you one from Batman: The Cult instead:

Who the hell is Max Schreck?

Who the hell is Carl Grissom?

The Joker killing Batman's parents. That would never happen in the comics.

Batman ripping his mask off in front of a villain just to get Catwoman to come and move in with him. That would never happen.

The Penguin wearing a big white dirty baby gro.



Btw you know they've adopted that Scarecrow look into the comics?

Catwoman started out in her early appearances with no whip at all. You know like how Batman started as a cold blooded killer like Burton's Batman was.

Should we start on Penguin having a mob of murderous circus guys working for him in Returns? That is a hallmark Joker's style trait, not Penguin's. He doesn't affiliate with gangs of clowns.

http://www.jokerfans.blogspot.ie/

When has Joker ever been an art obsessed, Vicki Vale stalking psychopath who was screwed over by a crime boss because he was diddling his girlfriend?

You may as well ask when has The Joker or The Penguin ever been killed off permanently like in Burton's movies, instead of spending years fighting Batman like in the comics? It's a movie universe not the comics. It doesn't go on forever.

Gotham has been portrayed as a normal looking city for decades in the comics. There was even times when it looked like New York:

That's not why he stopped. He stopped because crime was eradicated in Gotham thanks to Dent's legacy.

You haven't even gotten half of these so called goofs right! And 75% of them are laughable visual nit picks. Should we start slamming Burton's Harvey Dent because he was a black guy?

 

^The Joker wins. End thread.

 

If you haven't done your homework, you probably shouldn't burst into a forum making controversial, reflexive statements just because you're fed up with the more irrational fanboys.

Most of us agree that 'Nolanites' and 'Burtonites' are completely out of touch.

 

Nicely done my friend.

 

Regarding the reason Bruce retired after TDK: Everyone is always arguing it's one reason or the other, but it seems more likely to me that it's a bit of everything.

 

Completely agree that it was a bit of everything just simply taking a tole physically and mentally.

 

Joker's post cut truth into some of your claims, but I'm gonna go into the others, as well as expand a bit on a couple of his.

It's been armored, segmented, and helmeted many times. How is Burton's any less unique?

Believe it or not, in 1989, there were people upset that Batman was all-black and wearing rubber, because it was so 'outlandish' and different.

She's an amalgamation of various other characters from the books. For simplicity's sake, as well as screen time. Julie Madison is one obvious example.

See: The 'Secret Origins' Batman stories.

Should be noted that Nolan also had a pair of cops in The Dark Knight based on Bullock and Montoya, but with new names.

The Dark Knight Returns, although it was in the opposite order.

The Dark Knight Returns and Batman Beyond. But for way longer than 7 years.

The original Catwoman had a purple dress, bare legs, and a green cape. She also had her hair flowing out, Burton's didn't.

I don't see the need to nitpick creative redesigns (all of which have been good if you ask me), but you're simply incorrect.

It's strange to me that you think the reason his face is white is all that separates him from being an 'average' serial killer. Better yet, I question your understanding of the 'average' serial killer. The Joker in The Dark Knight was far more than that.

The Joker has never had a solid origin story. It's all what-ifs. The Joker himself doesn't even remember. The acid thing was one of the what-ifs.

Ra's was combined with a character called Henri Ducard. He wasn't the sole mentor of Bruce Wayne (or even around during Wayne's globe-trotting) in the books, and he isn't an eco-terrorist in Begins as he often is in the books.

They're extensions, not departures. They're based HEAVILY on comic material (as Joker - the user here - illustrates thoroughly with his awesome blog). There was a lot of love, care, and research put into this.

As Joker pointed out, it's quite commonly been portrayed as a 'normal' city in the books, but Begins and TDK had the Narrows, which evoked a nice smokey, noir vibe that was far from normal.

I would prefer a more unique city too, but let's not skew reality.

Are you trolling? You just chewed him out for being TOO creative and taking 'more liberties than Burton and Schumacher' and now you're calling him uninspired?? Seriously?

He reinvented and improved major things, breathed new creative life and depth into them. The way Batman's suit functions, down to the last microscopic detail, for starters.

Just going to pretend you never said the 'underplayed' or 'the Schumacher days were better than this' rubbish.

 

I think Nolan's weakness is that he is TOO faithful to the comics in some aspects, not the other way around.

I want to see the essence of the characters, but I'm not concerned with minor details such as what colour Batman's suit is. As long as they don't stray too far from the original concept.

But I wouldn't say either Tim Burton, Joel Schumacher or Christopher Nolan are any more comic accurate than the other.

 

This is where I stop reading.

 

Burton wasn't anymore faithful than schumacher.

 

Burton's films imported a lot from the comics, along with Nolan's.

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/08/comic-book-references-in-movies-part-i.html

 

Nolan wasn't anymore faithful than Schumacher.

 

Lol.

 

Batman, faking his death. Courtesy of another user:

 

Burton's Batman killed more bad guys than the comics Batman did
Nolan's reject killing
More faithful in that aspect

The film is important, it and the way it affects the viewer is very important
To say comics are juvenile you say movies are juvenile as well, they are both ways to present stories to their audience, one with moving pictures and sound, another uses still art and text

 

I remain fan of both Burton and Nolan films.Obviously some decisons Nolan made with
DKR I don't agree with.The whole John Blake Character.Turning Talia Into a straight up
Villian with no conflicts.Taking whip away from Catwomen.Toning down villainary from
Catwoman.Taking away a lot of dominatrix subtext to Catwoman and her relationship with
Batman.Bruce faking his death and running away from Gotham with Selina.Nolan took a lot
from comics.Burton also took elements from comics for his films.

 

With your first paragraph you lost any weight to your argument. Pretending these films are any different to the childish wish fulfilment of being able to put on a mask and being strong enough to beat up your bullies is a hypocritical opinion of the highest character. However, you took the time to bring up your opinion, so I'll reply fully.

Each director has shown valid interpretations and aspects of the character. Schumacher displayed the philanthropic side more than Burton or Nolan.

2011-

Max Schreck
Carl Grissom
Jack Napier
Knox
Eckhardt

Who are those people?

The Batman of Earth-Two, whilst still in publication retired to become the Commissioner of police. In Kingdom Come Bruce retired from the Batman role. Frank Miller's Batman retires after Jason's death. Not to mention Batman Beyond (though that began as an animated series).

I didn't like the retirement plot point of TDKR, either. I'd have had being Batman as like a drug for Bruce, and he only stopped when his body stopped.

In the Arkham series, Scarecrow wears an "Arkhamised" version of the Nolan Scarecrow duds, namely he wears the normal Arkham inmate clothing with the Scarecrow mask. Also, the look has been adopted for a while now.

Catwoman has existed for longer without the full black bodysuit than with it. He just chose a different mask. I've never seen Robin wear a big red bird on his chest.

In 2006's The Clown At Midnight (A reference book used by Chris and Heath) Grant Morrison describes Joker as having long greasy hair. And The Dark Knight Returns and Grant Morrison has shown that Joker wears make up. Also, Joker has no origin, the official stance is he was almost definitely one of many Red Hoods.

I'd disagree. Tim Burton has to turn all his villains into monsters. Tim Burton's Batman Returns has Batman essentially facing up against Killer Croc, he is very much, Penguin in name only. Penguin is a fully fledged mobster, not monster.

Not enough to ruin the characters, no.

No, Joker suffered from a minor aesthetic deviation, that was used as a metaphor of his psyche. Penguin suffered from huge narrative and aesthetic departures.

This I agree with. However, I don't think any director as of yet has done Gotham justice, the closest being Batman Begins.

I wouldn't say they were underplayed. Nolan's villains were supposed to feel like real tangible people with believable emotions and reactions to events. He's done the best adaptations of characters, but limited himself by the choice of setting.

You'd be wrong in saying that though.

 

But the "Nolan took liberties too" is only a rebuttal to the more rabid Nolanites if you start from the premise that the comics can never be improved upon, which is a false premise.

 

I support this post.

 

Replace GF with Jason Todd and you have the set up for The Dark Knight Returns. Heck, Rachel and Jason even died in a similar fashion (blown up by The Joker).