So i read Nolan aint planning to use the Penguin and Catwoman in his Batman universe, but could it be Nolan is scared he wont be able to top Burtons Penguin, especially Catwoman, yeah he topped Burtons Joker, i didnt see anything too special about Jacks potrayal of the Joker anyway , it was good but nothing out of this world. But Burtons Catwoman has set the standard and i can go as far as saying i dont think it could be topped, i might be proved wrong in the future, but the probability of that happening seems realy low to me. Most people dont like Burtons Penguin, personally i think it was one of the best villains portrayed in a superhero movie, people who didnt like the Penguin based this mostly on the mutation , however have you actually looked past that and marvel at the performance of Danny, it rivals Ledgers Joker, too bad people think about the mutation before the performance and delivery of the character. This are two characters i sense Nolan knows have been done well, and knows he has to top them if he wants to go there
Is Nolan Scared?
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You are not a big fan of Catwoman i guess, am not aswell, but Burtons adaptation of her was fun for me, fit well into the movie
Ok, it might all not be that realistic leading up to her becoming Catwoman, but once she did , it was delivered well, you cant argue with that now. Just like Nolans Two Face, leading to him becoming Two face was done well, but i didnt realy buy into the looks of Two -face, simply because the burns werent too realistic, but it was still good
ronny
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But it was done poorly. And the reason it was done poorly is because the whole idea of Catwoman is trite. You want interesting characters, you want something cool and then you get a woman dressed up like a cat who, big surprise here, acts as a love interest!
I hold romantic stories and subplots with nothing but disdain so the character will never be done correctly in my eyes because her whole purpose goes against what I like to see in a story.
I hold romantic stories and subplots with nothing but disdain so the character will never be done correctly in my eyes because her whole purpose goes against what I like to see in a story.
Well if you got a problem with a woman dressed as a cat, then what about Batman?and Catwomans costume in returns looks more realistic than Batmans, so if you realy bothered about that, then a man dressed as a bat isnt interesting according to you and not cool
ronny
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It's not the look, it's the purpose of the character. Batman is the protagonist, now, if I had a problem with his look I wouldn't be a fan of the comics would I?
But I resent how there always has to be a love interest. Why is that exactly? If the new Batman movie had a trailer that said "In the first film he fought his mentor, in the second he battled The Joker and now he's fighting a woman who he loves, who dresses up like a cat" I would not want anything to do with it. Because the idea sucks, it's completely wrong.
It's the same as having the Penguin as a main villain but at least he works as a side character. Catwoman is just the cliched femme fatale and I'm sick of it.
But I resent how there always has to be a love interest. Why is that exactly? If the new Batman movie had a trailer that said "In the first film he fought his mentor, in the second he battled The Joker and now he's fighting a woman who he loves, who dresses up like a cat" I would not want anything to do with it. Because the idea sucks, it's completely wrong.
It's the same as having the Penguin as a main villain but at least he works as a side character. Catwoman is just the cliched femme fatale and I'm sick of it.
Ok i get where you coming from, i dont like the whole love interest too, but i guess movies are sometimes made to appeal to a wide audience, so the producers probably think a love interest would be appealing to women etc and i dont think Catwoman neccessarily needs to be casted as a love interest , they could approach the character in a different way, she could work for the mob etc
Nepenthes
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have you read many Catwoman stories in the comics?
the_scream
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I don't mind Devito but I would prefer to see a Penguin that is more like the character from the comics or TAS. I'm not a huge fan of the Penguin in general but would be interesting to see it done in Nolan's film.
Catwoman would work but I don't want to see any cats bringing her back to life or any of the nine lives crap. I famous "cat-burglar" who steals from Gotham's wealthy would be interesting so long as she wasn't a main villain.
But as for Nolan being scared? I doubt it. From what I hear, he hasn't even decided to make another Batman. What makes you think he has even considered Penguin and Catwoman?
Catwoman would work but I don't want to see any cats bringing her back to life or any of the nine lives crap. I famous "cat-burglar" who steals from Gotham's wealthy would be interesting so long as she wasn't a main villain.
But as for Nolan being scared? I doubt it. From what I hear, he hasn't even decided to make another Batman. What makes you think he has even considered Penguin and Catwoman?
Was watching MTV last night, they kept reporting Depp would probably play the Riddler , then read the papers this morning , said the same thing too, rumours? I dont think Catwoman was actually dead, the cats didnt bring her back to life
the_scream
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Superwoman Prime
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Why in sweet God's name would you want to go from The Joker and Two-Face in TDK to a Nolanized Penguin in the third installment? Talk about a jarring downgrade.
I believe there is no topping TDK. That's why I vote that Nolan needs to end while it's good. I don't want a Batman movie disappointment of catastrophic proportions. And let's be honest... that's all it'd ever be.
Heath Ledger is long gone, and The Joker and Two-Face characters along with him (unless Nolan wants to be a dumbass by recasting the Joker); and those were the only characters that made TDK a masterpiece. Bale sure as hell didn't make it a great movie. That was all Ledger and Eckhart, mixed in with some decent directing.
Why do people keep saying Nolan should stop with TDK, am tired of hearing people think TDK is the second coming, comparing it to the Departed etc, newsflash TDK is a good movie, but not a masterpiece some fans think it is. We all got opinions, however i think Nolan is capable of making another Batman movie as good or better than TDK, TDK was only good because of the Joker, my opinion anyway, because anytime he wasnt on screen, i couldnt wait to see him come back, so why is it such a masterpiece?the movie has got its flaws, and it aint even that much ahead of Begins which i realy liked , only thing TDK had over Begins was a realy good villain, take that away and Begins is on par with TDK. I would like to see another Batman movie, and i have faith that Begins and TDK could be topped
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Agreed.
TruerToTheCore
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Well, that aren't exactly big shoes to fill.
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Shut your trap before I hold you down and staple it shut.
TDK isn't even on my top ten favorites. I don't have a raving crush it on or something. BUT as far as Batman movies go, that's about as good as you're going to get with Nolan, buddy.
We need to settle down and be happy with what we have for a while.
lol relax , its only a discussion, keep ur staples. Well i guess when you achieve something you just stop there and dont crave to achieve something greater. TDK will be topped, next villain might not be as good as Ledgers Joker,but TDK will be topped
CFE
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Nolan wouldn't be a dumbass to recast the Joker.
It was already a given that the character was going to out-live Heath whether he passed away when he did or 80 years from now.
If Joker is a necessity for the story, Nolan and Co. need to be strong and move forward.
I don't see anyone complaining about re-casting Katie Holmes...now I'm hardly comparing her performance in 'Begins' to Ledger's...but if you're gonna throw up a flag of protest and say they shouldn't recast Joker in order to keep from compromising the vision of Nolan's universe, then you should either be saying the exact same thing about going from Katie to Maggie...or realizing from that example that the storyline and universe of Nolan's Batman did just fine with the recasting.
Heath was fantastic, but to think there's never ever going to be another actor portraying the Joker ever is an absurd thought. Whether it's in Nolan's 3rd film or in another film in the future, the Joker's going to be played by someone else.
With a character that iconic spanning 70 years...it's unavoidable.
CFE
It was already a given that the character was going to out-live Heath whether he passed away when he did or 80 years from now.
If Joker is a necessity for the story, Nolan and Co. need to be strong and move forward.
I don't see anyone complaining about re-casting Katie Holmes...now I'm hardly comparing her performance in 'Begins' to Ledger's...but if you're gonna throw up a flag of protest and say they shouldn't recast Joker in order to keep from compromising the vision of Nolan's universe, then you should either be saying the exact same thing about going from Katie to Maggie...or realizing from that example that the storyline and universe of Nolan's Batman did just fine with the recasting.
Heath was fantastic, but to think there's never ever going to be another actor portraying the Joker ever is an absurd thought. Whether it's in Nolan's 3rd film or in another film in the future, the Joker's going to be played by someone else.
With a character that iconic spanning 70 years...it's unavoidable.
CFE
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what a hate for the Catwoman character !
I think some people here are totally obsessed by Michelle pfeiffer's performance. Well, as the teenage guy when the movie came out, it was also my vision of her since...
Well since someone told me to write an eventual fan film about her.
When I tried to figure out how to make a good catwoman movie, I had still the movie and the TAS version fresh in my mind.
She was a sexy cat burglar wearing a catsuit. She doesn't respect laws but she wasn't truely a villian. She had a tragic love for bruce wayne / batman, doesn't took anything seriously and conveyed a strong sadomasochistic ideas. ( having a whip, being tied up probably more on TAS than other female or supporting characters )
Yes, that was that. and that's probably the idea that you all have.
The pfeiffer version was still fresh in my mind but well, I wanted to do something else. I feeled that the character was reduced and basically decided to return to the comic. What was the point of catwoman ?
In fact, it couldn't be simply all the cliche which came from the terrible terrible movie ( which surprised me because it succeeded in being worst than I thought, remarkable exploit )
Having seen TAS and that pathethic piece of c..., I knew what I didn't want : the cheesy line like " purr-fect ", the pure SM costume ( How can a burglar / vigilante properly move in a dominatrix costume like the pfeiferr one. The sexy SM style had to be kept, but also tone down to be more practicle ) and the cat powers. Well, in fact I was sure that we could make a Catwoman true to the comic who was nothing like Michele pfeiffer.
It was hard for me to find all that I wanted, because there were so many version of her. I had to find sites and to buy the great scott beatty guide.
What I discovered was a character much more interesting that what was seen on the screen.
The modern Selina kyle was just so dark and tragic. I didn't like the Miller version ( the wh... thing wasn't exactly his brightest idea ), but I liked the brubaker / cooke version a lot.
The costume was way better, still sexy, retained still the SM tone, but had a better design for Selina nocturnal journeys.
I also discovered a character darker than I thought. She was an orphan. her family lived in the worst part of Gotham, in poverty. Her father was alcoholic and brutal, her mother comitted suicide when she was really young, letting her orphan.
I discovered that Catwoman was more than the " female empowerment ", it was all about survival. She had to learn how to survive. Where the joker, for exemple, was completely destroyed by his own tragedies, turning into the murderous and sociopathic nihilist he is now, Selina's ones make her stronger.
Her teenage years were terrible, but she never gave up. She made mistakes, the men she met ( who were mostly criminals ) were brutals, rude and ruthless with her. ( a disturbing side when, like me, you are a man ) But she allways refused to consider herself a victim.
That's why it is so important to have her powerless. She's just a normal girl. A girl from the poorest area of gotham who became a rich socialite by her own wish ( and her own theft )
Due to her young years she had problem in trusting men in general. Only one really fascinate her : Batman. The mysterious man inspired her. He was terrifying Gotham criminals. He was a model ( she decided to become catwoman inspired by his costume ) and a duel for her, who was on the opposite side of the law. When they finally met, the fan / duel relationship turned into a tragic love.
What is also interesting with her is that she has sometimes a mother like behavior, with her friend holly or her sister maggie. She can be very ptotective with them. This behavior is probably one of the reasons why she doesn't like killing.
She's a strong woman with a dark past who wears two masks : the classy, carefree and hedonistic socialite ( she suffered so much in her youth that she appreciates her current life ) and the malicious, agile ( and sometimes sexually provocative but it's more a play than anything else. She may seduce men but few are the ones that may have her in their bed, she ain't a wh... She seduces them become it gives her power on them. But sometimes, like with batman, she is caught in her own trap ) burglar dressed like a cat.
What I really love in her is that whatever she suffers, she takes the life on the bright / optimistic side.
It's my own version of what she is in the comic. ( she has had so many version )
I don't know how the character is so uninteresting or how he couldn't be brought in the nolan universe. And I thing she desserve it after her terrible movie.
I think some people here are totally obsessed by Michelle pfeiffer's performance. Well, as the teenage guy when the movie came out, it was also my vision of her since...
Well since someone told me to write an eventual fan film about her.
When I tried to figure out how to make a good catwoman movie, I had still the movie and the TAS version fresh in my mind.
She was a sexy cat burglar wearing a catsuit. She doesn't respect laws but she wasn't truely a villian. She had a tragic love for bruce wayne / batman, doesn't took anything seriously and conveyed a strong sadomasochistic ideas. ( having a whip, being tied up probably more on TAS than other female or supporting characters )
Yes, that was that. and that's probably the idea that you all have.
The pfeiffer version was still fresh in my mind but well, I wanted to do something else. I feeled that the character was reduced and basically decided to return to the comic. What was the point of catwoman ?
In fact, it couldn't be simply all the cliche which came from the terrible terrible movie ( which surprised me because it succeeded in being worst than I thought, remarkable exploit )
Having seen TAS and that pathethic piece of c..., I knew what I didn't want : the cheesy line like " purr-fect ", the pure SM costume ( How can a burglar / vigilante properly move in a dominatrix costume like the pfeiferr one. The sexy SM style had to be kept, but also tone down to be more practicle ) and the cat powers. Well, in fact I was sure that we could make a Catwoman true to the comic who was nothing like Michele pfeiffer.
It was hard for me to find all that I wanted, because there were so many version of her. I had to find sites and to buy the great scott beatty guide.
What I discovered was a character much more interesting that what was seen on the screen.
The modern Selina kyle was just so dark and tragic. I didn't like the Miller version ( the wh... thing wasn't exactly his brightest idea ), but I liked the brubaker / cooke version a lot.
The costume was way better, still sexy, retained still the SM tone, but had a better design for Selina nocturnal journeys.
I also discovered a character darker than I thought. She was an orphan. her family lived in the worst part of Gotham, in poverty. Her father was alcoholic and brutal, her mother comitted suicide when she was really young, letting her orphan.
I discovered that Catwoman was more than the " female empowerment ", it was all about survival. She had to learn how to survive. Where the joker, for exemple, was completely destroyed by his own tragedies, turning into the murderous and sociopathic nihilist he is now, Selina's ones make her stronger.
Her teenage years were terrible, but she never gave up. She made mistakes, the men she met ( who were mostly criminals ) were brutals, rude and ruthless with her. ( a disturbing side when, like me, you are a man ) But she allways refused to consider herself a victim.
That's why it is so important to have her powerless. She's just a normal girl. A girl from the poorest area of gotham who became a rich socialite by her own wish ( and her own theft )
Due to her young years she had problem in trusting men in general. Only one really fascinate her : Batman. The mysterious man inspired her. He was terrifying Gotham criminals. He was a model ( she decided to become catwoman inspired by his costume ) and a duel for her, who was on the opposite side of the law. When they finally met, the fan / duel relationship turned into a tragic love.
What is also interesting with her is that she has sometimes a mother like behavior, with her friend holly or her sister maggie. She can be very ptotective with them. This behavior is probably one of the reasons why she doesn't like killing.
She's a strong woman with a dark past who wears two masks : the classy, carefree and hedonistic socialite ( she suffered so much in her youth that she appreciates her current life ) and the malicious, agile ( and sometimes sexually provocative but it's more a play than anything else. She may seduce men but few are the ones that may have her in their bed, she ain't a wh... She seduces them become it gives her power on them. But sometimes, like with batman, she is caught in her own trap ) burglar dressed like a cat.
What I really love in her is that whatever she suffers, she takes the life on the bright / optimistic side.
It's my own version of what she is in the comic. ( she has had so many version )
I don't know how the character is so uninteresting or how he couldn't be brought in the nolan universe. And I thing she desserve it after her terrible movie.
DaRkVeNgeanCe
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Either way I dont see Nolan tarnishing Heath's performance by casting another completly different Joker, to me its just not happening.
DaRkVeNgeanCe
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By the way this thread title is pretty moronic!
TDK was better then batman begins, the fact that it was entertaining this time around. BB was very boring to me, i just couldnt get around the dragged out origin. and the batsuit was terrible.
as for a sequel, i wouldnt want to see nolan do catwoman and penguin again, because lets face it, jack was great joker but im pretty sure everyone was happy to see a different joker done in films. but, for catwoman and penguin, who are 2 completely unrealistic characters, i cant see nolan wanting to do that. penguin is unrealsitic that he would certainly need prosthetics, which would look weird in a nolan movie, and catwoman, a woman in skintight leather? are you joking? even if nolan decided to catwoman, you couldnt top pfieffer. no, just no that goes for devito too. they were both very dark and twisted versions, kinda like how nolan did joker. i dont see how much more you could do with the character without downgradeing them.
as for a sequel, i wouldnt want to see nolan do catwoman and penguin again, because lets face it, jack was great joker but im pretty sure everyone was happy to see a different joker done in films. but, for catwoman and penguin, who are 2 completely unrealistic characters, i cant see nolan wanting to do that. penguin is unrealsitic that he would certainly need prosthetics, which would look weird in a nolan movie, and catwoman, a woman in skintight leather? are you joking? even if nolan decided to catwoman, you couldnt top pfieffer. no, just no that goes for devito too. they were both very dark and twisted versions, kinda like how nolan did joker. i dont see how much more you could do with the character without downgradeing them.
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