NSA creates national database of phonecalls...major phone companies help

Discussion in 'SHH Community Forum' started by Matt, May 11, 2006.

  1. Mr Sparkle Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,530
    Likes Received:
    0
    yeah, that's exactly the reaction they want.
    remember those terrorists hate your freedoms, and If you have to sacrifice those freedoms to protect them (WTF?) well, that's ok ain't it?
    I mean, books, phonecalls, websites?
    soon, stores, aquaintances...so forth.



    who cares right?
     
  2. Kritish Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    21,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is everyone complaining?
    The U.K. has done this for years.
     
  3. Backdrifter Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, I guess if the UK has been doing then that makes it right as rain?

    These are for you:

    "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will deserve neither and lose both. "

    - Paraphrased Benjamin Franklin

    "They who can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. "

    - Benjamin Franklin

    "When Government fears the people, it's liberty. When people fear the Government, it's tyranny."

    - Benjamin Franklin

    "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

    - H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

    "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear. And the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown."

    - H.P. Lovecraft
     
  4. Kritish Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    21,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    The UK is a safer country then the US in crime rate. I think there doing a good job.
     
  5. Backdrifter Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,221
    Likes Received:
    0
    What a simple, dismissable assesment.
     
  6. rdh007 Brit Wannabe

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Listening to a phone call prevents crime? No. Terrorism? Maybe.
     
  7. Erzengel |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    74,424
    Likes Received:
    3,101
    This is why I communicate using these methods.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. redmarvel Red, White and Buxom

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    19,904
    Likes Received:
    7
    Are they doing a better job at keeping down crime by having the phone records? Were stats done on the crime rates before and after the collection of the phone records to see if it went down? Frankly this is a "guilt by association" method of police/security work. "Oh, he called X, we know X is a crook, he must also be a crook".
     
  9. rdh007 Brit Wannabe

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,499
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...and never ever use the internet. It's downright dangerous to communicate there.
     
  10. Backdrifter Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,221
    Likes Received:
    0
    ........:eek:
     
  11. Superman The Man Of Steel (Is #1)

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    22,579
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought Ben Franklin said that.:confused:
     
  12. jaguarr Be Your Own Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    43,569
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've always referenced it from FDR's "Four Freedoms" speech. He could have lifted it from Franklin, though.

    jag
     
  13. Superman The Man Of Steel (Is #1)

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    22,579
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh.:) :up:
     
  14. jaguarr Be Your Own Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    43,569
    Likes Received:
    1
    Oh, man. Sh1t hit the fan on this one, today!

    http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?no=291528&rel_no=1

    U.S. lawmakers decry government phone data collection
    Bush claims Americans' privacy always protected
    The Associated Press (apwire) Email Article Print Article
    Published on 2006-05-12 10:23 (KST)
    Lawmakers are demanding answers from the Bush administration about a spy agency's secret collection of records of millions of ordinary Americans' phone calls to build a database of all calls within the country.

    Facing mounting congressional criticism, President George W. Bush sought to assure Americans that their civil liberties were "fiercely protected." "The government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval," Bush said Thursday, without confirming the program of the National Security Agency. "We're not mining or trolling through the personallives of millions of innocent Americans." The disclosure, reported in USA Today, could complicate Bush's bid to win confirmation of former National Security Agency Director Michael Hayden as CIA director. It also reignited worries about privacy rights and touched off questions about the legal underpinnings for the government's actions and the diligence of the Republican-controlled Congress' oversight of a Republican administration.

    It also is another headache for Bush, whose popularity with the American public as recorded by national polls is at an all-time low, due largely to the Iraq war and exacerbated by a series of administrative missteps over the last year.

    "Everything that NSA does is lawful and very carefully done," Hayden said while making rounds at the Capitol to advocate for his confirmation. "The appropriate members of the Congress -- the House and Senate -- are briefed on all NSA activities." The top-ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee said he was shocked by the reported activities.

    "It's not one party's government. It's America's government.

    Those entrusted with great power have a duty to answer to Americans what they are doing," said Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont.

    AT&T Corp., Verizon Communications Inc. and BellSouth Corp. telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the NSA program shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, said USA Today, citing anonymous sources it said had direct knowledge of the arrangement.

    Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, a centrist Republican, said he would call the phone companies to appear before the panel in pursuit of what had transpired.

    "We're really flying blind on the subject, and that's not a good way to approach the Fourth Amendment and the constitutional issues involving privacy," Specter said of domestic surveillance in general. The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution forbids unreasonable search and seizure.

    The companies said Thursday they were protecting customers' privacy but also had an obligation to help law enforcement and government agencies in ensuring the nation's security.

    Sen. Wayne Allard, a conservative Republican, said NSA was using the data to analyze calling patterns to detect and track suspected terrorist activity, according to information provided him by the White House. "Telephone customers' names, addresses and other personal information have not be handed over to NSA as part of this program," he said.

    Rep. Edward Markey of Massachusetts, ranking Democrat on the House of Representatives Energy and Commerce Committee's telecommunications and Internet panel, had a different view: "The NSA stands for Now Spying on Americans." Claims about the program's existence but not details became known in January.

    The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a California-based group devoted to preserving privacy in digital media, alleged in a federal lawsuit that AT&T Inc. had given the NSA direct access to records of the more than 300 million domestic and international calls and a huge volume of Internet data traffic. AT&T Inc. includes the AT&T Corp. and SBC Communications Inc.

    The lawsuit asked a court to halt collection of the data as an illegal invasion of citizens' privacy.

    The Justice Department told the court last month it would seek to dismiss the case under the state secrets privilege but said that effort "should not be construed as a confirmation or denial" of the alleged surveillance activities.

    On Capitol Hill, several lawmakers expressed incredulity about the program, with some Republicans questioning the rationale and several Democrats railing about a lack of congressional oversight.

    "I'm not sure why it would be necessary to keep and have that kind of information," said the House majority leader, John Boehner.

    He wanted more details.

    House Democrats demanded a special counsel to investigate the NSA's activities. West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, who is supposed to be briefed on all NSA activities, called current congressional oversight "woefully inadequate." Senate Intelligence Chairman Pat Roberts lamented leaks and said a select panel overseeing Bush's warrantless surveillance program, which was disclosed in December, has been fully informed of NSA activities. "Calls for further oversight are unnecessary," he said.

    NSA spokesman Don Weber said that given the nature of the agency's work, it would be "irresponsible to comment on actual or alleged operations issues." He added, "The NSA takes its legal responsibilities seriously and operates within the law." A government official, while not confirming existence of the NSA program, pointed to a 1979 Supreme Court case, Smith v. Maryland.

    The official said justices ruled that the acquisition of basic phone records -- calling numbers, called numbers and duration of calls -- is not a "search" under the Fourth Amendment and that individuals do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in such call record data.

    But Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, said after that case Congress required courts to approve the use of electronic devices that capture basic information about calls in real time, or to get a court order or a subpoena for phone records stored by phone companies.

    NSA is the same spy agency that conducts the controversial eavesdropping program that had been acknowledged earlier by Bush.

    The president said last year that he authorized the NSA to listen, without warrants, to international phone calls involving Americans when terrorism is suspected.


    jag
     
  15. Arkady Rossovich Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    7,408
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Soviets once spied on each other,and where did that get them?The CCCP fell appart in 20 years..
     
  16. dcbmp Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    0
    Uh....hello, the president HAS the power to do this LEGALLY.
     
  17. dcbmp Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm glad you guys were not around for the civil war and WWII. The presidents then did way more "1984" like stuff than Bush is doing. Besides, he briefs congress on it.
     
  18. PLAS Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    Messages:
    21,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    but is it being done legally?
    and how ethical is it?
     
  19. Kritish Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    21,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    soon the reptillians will make themselves known...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. jaguarr Be Your Own Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    43,569
    Likes Received:
    1
    Uh...hello, no he doesn't. That's part of why there's so much controversy over this.

    jag
     
  21. raybia Signing off

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    12,658
    Likes Received:
    0
  22. rdh007 Brit Wannabe

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Worse than that, we would've had conflicts of meaning with causes one could get behind fighting for. :gasp:
     
  23. sinewave Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    14,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    if the whole point to stopping terrorism is to protect our FREE country and we sacrifice our freedoms in an attempt to stop them, then what good is it? a few people die from terrorists, but the rest of the country suffers from our attempts at stopping them. there's gotta be a better way.
     
  24. raybia Signing off

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    12,658
    Likes Received:
    0

    That makes me feel better.


    So there are grounds for Impeachment for every President since the civil war.
     
  25. rdh007 Brit Wannabe

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Except Bill Clinton, ironically.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"