Comics Official (adjectiveless) X-MEN Discussion Thread

[El Bastardo]

Kirkman sucks at writing characters not his own.

This is a critical flaw in writing for comics, might I add.

 

[Spider-Nerd]

I stopped caring about ultimate x-men when I realized they were all just going to die randomly.

 

[Manic]

So... during Ultimatum?

 

[Mass Nerder]

So... during Ultimatum?

I don't know why people hated Ultimatum so much. Well let me becareful how I say this but I reminded me of Avengers Disassembled. And NO it wasn't nearly as good as Avengers Disassembled but they both served the same purpose. It was the tearing down of one world so that they could build a new one.

 

[Manic]

In the case of Avengers Disassembled, the world they built up afterward was terrible. It had the Avengers turning against one another, the mutant race disappearing, and villains taking over the United States.

 

[El Bastardo]

You don't know why people hated Ultimatum so much?

Here's a clue: It sucked. Here's another clue: It was horribly written. A third clue: Finch's pencils didn't look that good.

 

[Mass Nerder]

You don't know why people hated Ultimatum so much?

Here's a clue: It sucked. Here's another clue: It was horribly written. A third clue: Finch's pencils didn't look that good.

To each his own. I'm just saying the main purpose of the story was to tear everything down so it could be rebuilt. I blame Marvel for people hating it so much because they made it out to be something bigger than it actually was. And having a big name artist like Finch didn't help matters.

Now let's just get back to the X-Men discussion.

 

[El Bastardo]

What Marvel made it out to be is what it was. It was a "world-changer." A new status quo did emerge from it.

How a publisher hypes something has absolutely nothing with judgment of a piece. Something good, great, or truly brilliant will defy all possible hype. Something that sucks will stink right through any amount of hype.

I don't care if you like it. People can like whatever they want to like, and dislike whatever they want to not like. Liking something has nothing to do with whether it was good.

Ultimatum was not good. Ultimatum was one of the worst comics I'd read until the two-part Chaos War: Thor tie-in. Those two issues really take the cake.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Liking something has nothing to do with whether it was good.

Ummm, that's EXACTLY what it means.

 

[El Bastardo]

No, it doesn't. Like/dislike are a subjective scale. There are objective values as to whether something is good or bad, done well or poor.

I like Kuffs, for example. It's one of my favorite movies. But it's not a very good movie, not directorially and not in writing. I like R.A. Salvatore, but there's very little quality to his writing.

On the other hand, something like Kingdom of Heaven is written, acted, and directed al in a brilliant manner, not to mention scenery and attention to detail and whatever else, but the fact that it's for the most part so quiet and slow and, essentially, boring turns a lot of people off, and so a lot of people hate the movie.

See the differences? It isn't that difficult.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Jesus Christ. This argument again? Everything you just listed... writing, acting, directing... it's ALL subjective. Good, bad, done well, done poorly, these are all subjective terms. It all depends on the person. It makes absolutely no sense when someone says they like something, but it isn't very good. That's completely contradictory. Obviously the good outweighs the bad because otherwise, you wouldn't say you like something.

 

[Mass Nerder]

Jesus Christ. This argument again? Everything you just listed... writing, acting, directing... it's ALL subjective. Good, bad, done well, done poorly, these are all subjective terms. It all depends on the person. It makes absolutely no sense when someone says they like something, but it isn't very good. That's completely contradictory. Obviously the good outweighs the bad because otherwise, you wouldn't say you like something.

I've given up arguing with this guy, man. Now let's talk X-Men again. Here's a subject:


Is Storm the most underrated X-Man?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Ultimatum was one of the worst comics I'd read until the two-part Chaos War: Thor tie-in. Those two issues really take the cake.

Hahaha, that Thor tie-in was horrible and I only skimmed it. But Ultimatum didn't suck nearly as bad as DC's Countdown

 

[Manic]

Is Storm the most underrated X-Man?

She's one of the most popular X-Men.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Definitely one of the most absent though

 

[Havok83]

She's one of the most underutilized. Thats for sure

 

[Manic]

Most characters are being underused. It seems like everyone's favorite characters have all been reduced to background fodder.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Colossus got a few hits in on Karima before he got owned last month

In b4 "he was holding back"

 

[Manic]

Aren't you the one who usually says that?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

No sir, I hate when people say that. Particularly about Superman

 

[El Bastardo]

Jesus Christ. This argument again? Everything you just listed... writing, acting, directing... it's ALL subjective. Good, bad, done well, done poorly, these are all subjective terms. It all depends on the person. It makes absolutely no sense when someone says they like something, but it isn't very good. That's completely contradictory. Obviously the good outweighs the bad because otherwise, you wouldn't say you like something.

I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

To clarify: It makes absolute sense for someone to say they like something but it isn't very good, because it demonstrates they know what they're speaking about - they understand the craft.

Nothing I listed was subjective, but the non-mention of entertainment. Value of entertainment - that is, how entertained one is - is subjective, and is how someone can like something that may not be particularly well-crafted. I enjoy Kuffs. It isn't very well-crafted. I enjoy most of David Finch's artwork, for example, despite the fact that oft-times it's rather dry and stilted and hasn't looked as good as some of his early stuff, circa the arc he and Bendis did in Ultimate X-Men. But the aesthetics affect me on a subjective level, despite several objective flaws in overall construction and paneling.

How is this hard?

Oh, right, the study of literature in writing and other media hasn't been about this for however many hundreds of years. Right. Completely forgot.

Hahaha, that Thor tie-in was horrible and I only skimmed it. But Ultimatum didn't suck nearly as bad as DC's Countdown

DC's Countdown was just holding back, Spoons. t:

(Actually, I'm quite proud of myself for having dropped that ~10 issues in. I also consider myself quite ashamed it took me that many issues to drop it.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Haha, I'm horrible at dropping books in a timely fashion. Hell, I bought Hulk till the suckage of Rulk's secret identity forced me to part ways.

 

[Mass Nerder]

She's one of the most popular X-Men. [/QUOT

Definitely one of the most absent though

Exactly, and what I don't get is why is everyone after Wolverine? Don't get me wrong I love Wolverine, it's just why is he in almost EVERY team book. I mean if I started a team I'd rather someone who can control the weather rather than a guy with knifes coming out of his hands.

 

[Havok83]

Easy. Wolverine sells.

 

[Mass Nerder]

Easy. Wolverine sells.

Yeah I know it just always bugs me.