Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - - Part 16

[The Shape]

Morrison had a secret society of evil movers and shakers that included a possibly long lost Wayne family member, The Black Glove. Then Snyder did that with the Court of Owls.

Batman going all nutty, Morrison did in RIP with Zurr en Arr, Snyder did it in Court of Owls.

Joker reinventing himself newer and nastier Morrison just did, but he also established that Joker just does that, all the time. So a pass there.

Batman "dying" and being replaced by a new Batman.



All I can think of right now. Just a lot of the same ideas and beats.

Yup. Meanwhile, Snyder keeps acting like his arcs have been so crazy and unconventional, but I feel the same way you do. It's one thing to rehash a storyline or arc from a previous decade or era, but in this case, we've seen some pretty similar Batman concepts within the past several years.

That's not to say I haven't liked anything Snyder's done with Batman. I liked Court of Owls and Endgame mostly, but the point remains.

 

[-Arya-]

I stopped reading Superheavy after issue 45. I just didn't have the motivation to keep going with this arc. Maybe it'll read better in a collected format.

 

[Slade W]

I have enjoyed Superheavy. Seeing how Gordon deals with being Batman is interesting to me.

 

[Mee]

Yup. Meanwhile, Snyder keeps acting like his arcs have been so crazy and unconventional, but I feel the same way you do. It's one thing to rehash a storyline or arc from a previous decade or era, but in this case, we've seen some pretty similar Batman concepts within the past several years.

That's not to say I haven't liked anything Snyder's done with Batman. I liked Court of Owls and Endgame mostly, but the point remains.

Exactly. There just wasn't enough separation between Morrison's run and Synder's for it to be so similar.


I dug Court of Owls up until the end and the big reveal. That I think still isn't totally resolved? As to if Wayne Jr is who he says he is?

Death of the Family was okay but I hated Joker's skin mask look.

I dropped the book during Zero Year. Endgame looked like possibly a step back the right way, Gordon as Batman to me is ridiculous. He's all ripped and athletic now, what happens when Bruce comes back? He just goes from super cop back to a heavy smoker in a trench coat?

I love Capullo's art though, he's been great.


One thing about Snyder that bugs me is how he seems to want to influence or alter continuity all the time. Bring back Gordon's son as a killer, tie Dick's past to the Court of Owls, give Bruce a secret brother he never knew, dive into Joker's origins, etc


Just tell good stories (which he CAN do, he's a good writer), don't worry about shock value so much

 

[Decepticonus]

One thing about Snyder that bugs me is how he seems to want to influence or alter continuity all the time. Bring back Gordon's son as a killer, tie Dick's past to the Court of Owls, give Bruce a secret brother he never knew, dive into Joker's origins, etc

Well it is the New 52, soooo yeah.

 

[Omegabat]

Exactly. There just wasn't enough separation between Morrison's run and Synder's for it to be so similar.


I dug Court of Owls up until the end and the big reveal. That I think still isn't totally resolved? As to if Wayne Jr is who he says he is?

Death of the Family was okay but I hated Joker's skin mask look.

I dropped the book during Zero Year. Endgame looked like possibly a step back the right way, Gordon as Batman to me is ridiculous. He's all ripped and athletic now, what happens when Bruce comes back? He just goes from super cop back to a heavy smoker in a trench coat?

I love Capullo's art though, he's been great.


One thing about Snyder that bugs me is how he seems to want to influence or alter continuity all the time. Bring back Gordon's son as a killer, tie Dick's past to the Court of Owls, give Bruce a secret brother he never knew, dive into Joker's origins, etc


Just tell good stories (which he CAN do, he's a good writer), don't worry about shock value so much

Lincoln March showed up in Batman Eternal and Robin War,no one p pretended he was anything but a lunatic. The whole brother thing was just stupid and Snyder left it vague because he didn't have the commitment for it. It's a good thing too because that character is poor and with the actual Owlman running around and already connected to Dick I see him replacing Snyder's lame character very soon.
I feel the same way about Snyder's work as some of you guys do,it's so derivative and lacking in new elements. The overly long arcs and repeated Joker use are also grating. I also find his disregard for the Bat family appalling. I dont expect him to use Jason,Luke and Tim all the time but there are staple characters like Robin and Batgirl who should support Batman from time to time. I dont get why he feels the need for Duke Thomas and Harper Row over Damian and Barbara. He hasn't even spared Gordon and Alfred. I'm not even sure what he's trying to accomplish by cutting off Alfreds hand and making Jim Batman.

 

[The Batman]

Morrison had a secret society of evil movers and shakers that included a possibly long lost Wayne family member, The Black Glove. Then Snyder did that with the Court of Owls.

Batman going all nutty, Morrison did in RIP with Zurr en Arr, Snyder did it in Court of Owls.

Joker reinventing himself newer and nastier Morrison just did, but he also established that Joker just does that, all the time. So a pass there.

Batman "dying" and being replaced by a new Batman.



All I can think of right now. Just a lot of the same ideas and beats.

This post reminds me just how great Morrison's run was. I like Snyder, even if he is immensely overrated, but his run doesn't touch Morrison's.

 

[Broseph44]

Really loving the last 2 issues of Detective comics featuring Jim. Really like this arc with this historical killer.

 

[Compi716]

Anybody read the latest BATMAN & ROBIN ETERNAL? God, the writers are really doing whatever they can to thrust Harper Row down our throats. The devices used in this last issue felt cheap.

 

[Babillygunn]

Yup. Meanwhile, Snyder keeps acting like his arcs have been so crazy and unconventional, but I feel the same way you do. It's one thing to rehash a storyline or arc from a previous decade or era, but in this case, we've seen some pretty similar Batman concepts within the past several years.

That's not to say I haven't liked anything Snyder's done with Batman. I liked Court of Owls and Endgame mostly, but the point remains.

I am sooooo glad to hear other people who aren't totally enamorred with Snyder. I feel he goes for shock value too much.

I agree that Court of Owls was good, although it plodded a bit in parts and the whole Lincoln is my brother angle had shock with no resolution and very little effect.

I thought Death of the Family was a good story made nauseating by having Joker cut off his own face.

I also don't see why making Gordon Bat-ironman could've ever been considered a good idea. Dick made perfect sense and frankly I would've been ok with him taking the bat-mantle permanently pre- Batman Inc. but Gordon makes no sense.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Snyder didn't cut off Joker's face. That had already happened in Detective Comics 1 (Daniel was the writer I think). Snyder just played with it.

 

[Omegabat]

Snyder didn't cut off Joker's face. That had already happened in Detective Comics 1 (Daniel was the writer I think). Snyder just played with it.

I'll come back with a source to prove it(hopefully) but it was Snyder who asked Daniel to do it.

 

[Slade W]

I'll come back with a source to prove it(hopefully) but it was Snyder who asked Daniel to do it.

I didn't know that. I think I read before that the writer who had it cut off was disappointed that he could not finish his story.

 

[Omegabat]

Anybody read the latest BATMAN & ROBIN ETERNAL? God, the writers are really doing whatever they can to thrust Harper Row down our throats. The devices used in this last issue felt cheap.

Meh, these Eternal books are just a place for Tynion to write his stories and he's always interested in consolidating Snyder's concepts. It wouldn't be a problem if they didn't lull fans with false advertisement. This so called celebration of Robin doesn't even recognize the current Robin while pretending that Harper would've been the greatest Robin ever if she were given the chance.

 

[Omegabat]

I didn't know that. I think I read before that the writer who had it cut off was disappointed that he could not finish his story.

It was around DOTF,Snyder was asked about face less Joker and he took full ownership of the concept.

 

[Slade W]

It was around DOTF,Snyder was asked about face less Joker and he took full ownership of the concept.

Thanks for telling me this. It is one of my favourite Joker stories and I love how Joker behaves in it, and how him and Batman interact with each other. Nobody writes Joker better than Scott IMO, his view of the character is one that I really love. The way Capullo drew him in DOTF is my second favourite Joker look (my first favourite is Endgame). I am a big fan of the New 52 Joker.

This is one of my absolute favourite Joker images

Spoiler

I know it is not popular on here to be a fan of modern comics, but personally I am loving what they have done with Batman and Joker in the last few years. These days, I enjoy reading Snyder's stuff more than I do some of my old favourite Batman stories like TLH, TKJ, Year One, A Serious House on a Serious Earth and TDKR. I guess it is a mixture of me reading those stories too many times and not having the same enjoyment that I used to have reading them, as well as them being old and me finding some of them to be a bit dated.

 

[Omegabat]

Thanks for telling me this. It is one of my favourite Joker stories and I love how Joker behaves in it, and how him and Batman interact with each other. Nobody writes Joker better than Scott IMO, his view of the character is one that I really love. The way Capullo drew him in DOTF is my second favourite Joker look (my first favourite is Endgame). I am a big fan of the New 52 Joker.

This is one of my absolute favourite Joker images

Spoiler

I know it is not popular on here to be a fan of modern comics, but personally I am loving what they have done with Batman and Joker in the last few years. I enjoy reading Snyder's stuff than I do some of my old favourite Batman stories like TLH, TKJ, Year One, A Serious House on a Serious Earth and TDKR. I guess it is a mixture of me reading those stories too many times and not having the same enjoyment that I used to have reading them as well as them being old and me finding some of them to be a bit dated.

That's cool to hear but I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I think Snyder's Joker is just a joke. He's a walking metaphor machine who literally has to tell you everything he does. Once a character starts talking too much there comes a point where they become an author mouth piece. This is true of the Joker,March,Mr Bloom etc. If someone wrote me down Bloom's and Joker's dialogue from Snyder's book I literally wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Snyder has a problem with villains imo,he feels compelled to make them abstract and vague,more akin to concepts than characters which wouldn't be a problem if he could channel that in any way other than an exposition dump.
Moreover he doesn't say anything new about the Batman/Joker dynamic and most irritating for me is his obsession to tie Joker in to every type of story ever. The new origin has Joker in it, the new Batman had to take a leave and gets replaced story has the Joker in it, the new immortality pit story has Joker in it(are we sure Endgame wasn't intended to be a Ra's al Ghul story?). The only thing Scott now needs to do is canonize Burtons Batman and be done with it.

 

[Mani-Man]

Personally i think that DOTF is Snyders most consistent story in terms of quality.
It was a really cool story overall which got even better due to Capullos fantastic art style.
Most of his storys lack a good ending, but in DOTF it had a fitting end imo.

But again Snyder wanted to do much and shock the fans too extreme with it.
It could have been so much stronger, having the theme of hiding behind masks and a whole psychological aspect of the batfamily.
Then it could have been even stronger, but in the end it doesnt do anything new or different in terms of Joker vs Batman.

Endgame could have been so awesome.
Having joker become so insane after DOTF that he is almost sane again.
Deciding to stop playing games with Batman and wanting to kill him.
Showing a joker that is not a Satire of himself...but a extremely dark and dangerous being.
Endgame started so promising, and looking at it from certain Angles...it is a good story.
But then Snyder turned one corner too much and wanted to shock.
This is snyders biggest problem, he constantly thinks he needs to add another layer.

We had worst written batman vs Joker storys...but we also had better.

I must say that im interested in snyder writing two face or strange...or scarecrow.
I think snyders writing could work for those characters more then for Bloom, Joker, March.
While Zero year is all kinds of weird, i did enjoy Riddler in it.

 

[Mee]

Snyder didn't cut off Joker's face. That had already happened in Detective Comics 1 (Daniel was the writer I think). Snyder just played with it.

I still can't believe Daniel got to write Batman for so long.


He's no writer

 

[nite-owl]

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Surely he was taking the **** with that line?

 

[titansupes]

Good grief, instantly reminds me of a line my friends and I have been making fun of for years:

[YT]3Jji78uEW14[/YT]

 

[Mee]

Haha

 

[Decepticonus]

I still can't believe Daniel got to write Batman for so long.


He's no writer

He's not unfortunately, but I love his art. The Deathstroke he wrote was aight. But honestly (not trying to defend him) I think the de-facing of Joker was editorial, not Daniel. DiDio stated they wanted to go this Ledger route and out-do that.

 

[antsman41]

Didio, more like D'idiot.