Official Contest of Marvels II Discussion Thread

Phaedrus45

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RULES

1) To participate in Contest Of Marvels II, you must be willing to at least commit yourself to give each character on your list at least a short paragraph explaining why you believe he/she should advance into the next round versus their opponent for that week. (Such circumstances as to why you might not get up a debate are acceptable; such as, prior to debating, letting Wiegeabo or Phaedrus know you will not be available for a select amount of days to participate due to whatever reason....or, maybe it's so lopsided of a match-up, you willingly conceed defeat.) Due to the length and time needed to commit to this contest, we will allow this season for those who wish to participate to have a select number of characters if that is their desire, with a minimum of 10 characters. (With 512 characters, I think this is a good number that nobody would be overwhelmed with this contest.)

2) That said, I want to make one point clear. Those who decide to select a limited amount of characters are eligible for the grand prize of the contest...but, any other prizes given out will only be eligible for those who commit to a full roster. (This is important, because prizes are determined by winning percentage...and, those contestants with only 10 characters would probably have a better winning percentage and take the "best record" of Round 1 & 2.) There are usually 6 prizes given out for this contest. Best record of Round 1, Worst Record of Round 1, Best Record of Round 2, Worst Record of Round 2, Grand Prize Winner, and Runner-Up Grand Prize.

3) Characters - (To be discussed at a later time, after all other rules are agreed upon)

4) Locations - Locations this year will be determined before hand. And, each location shall be placed in a given week before brackets are determined. This will ensure that everything is completely random.

5) Debating - Debating will be a little different this season. We will keep the same schedule of matches being posted on Friday. Debating can be done as soon as ALL MATCHES are posted. The first debate that is posted by you, though, cannot be a debate of your opponents debate. You must tell in at least a paragraph why you believe your charaacter can win his/her match. Afterwards, written sparing will be allowed to counter-debate your opponents argument. (Again, keep it civil. No name calling!!!) Only those who own characters may debate. (No help can be given by other people, in or out of the contest.) If a person has a question about your character or debate that seems pertinent, they can ask it. (i.e. If you mention a weapon or power your character is going to use, someone can question whether it's in that character's ability to have it.) Decisions about the validity of a debate will be determined by JH or Phaed if a problem arises. If the problem involves JH or Phaed's character, then the opposing person will make the decision. (i.e. If someone argues JH is incorrect in a point of his debate, it will be up to Phaed to make the decision whether it's allowed.) Finally, the major point that will be different this year: Once voting begins on Tuesday, debating is over. No matter how much you might want to make another point, you cannot. But, voters can make a brief statement (usually a sentence) saying why they might have voted for a character.

Also, a character can only use the resources that would normally be available to him/her. The Thing would be able to get information about a match from the Fantastic Four's data base, but Spider-Man wouldn't necessarily have that at his disposal.

6) Voting - One matter will change about voting this season. Still, once you make your decision, it will be final. But, if you vote and realize you mistakingly voted for the wrong character, I think it should be allowed for that person to change their vote. Since debating will officially end when voting begins, the chance someone can be swayed differently is greatly reduced, and I think it's fair to say we'll trust our voters to be honest when they say they made a mistake. Again, all votes must be based on reading all debates and coming to your own conclusion with all the information given. Please, do not vote for a character solely because you like them or don't like them. Also, make the same consideration for the participants in the contest.

7) Victory - A new rule this season to eliminate any confusion, any victory is not an argument for future victories.

Added rules by JH:

One thing I do want to expand on though is the mention of resources. Your example of Thing using the FF database as a resource, but Spidey can't is fine, but I want to make a little closer line in regards to teammates. Thing cannot use a doohicky made by Reed unless it was specifically made for the Thing. If Reed's made some telepathic blocker, the Thing cannot go and use it because his teammate used it, it's Reed's resource not Thing's. Also, just because you're on a team, doesn't mean everything that team has is at your disposal. Example... Gambit cannot use Cerebro because he's not telepathic and he's never used Cerebro... but he could probably use a smaller, less effect, hand held cerebro unit, as those can be used by any X-Man (main X-men, not the offshoot X-Characters or students and such). Basically what I"m saying is, use common sense on resources and if you aren't sure about something, just ask. Comments questions?

I think we decided to outlaw all Infinity Gems, so I just wanted to mention that again.

We also have to make an official decision on the labling of characters and what versions we are using. Last season I put a "commonly known as" rule into play, and while I think it worked pretty good, I think it may be best to do something a little more detailed and definate. Some characters were hard to judge on the common rule, such as Drax who was evenly intellegent and dumb, so it's hard to call. I kinda like the idea Phaed threw out there of all characters being their Current version unless otherwise noted (and I get the feeling we'll have a lot of noted characters, so don't worry about if you don't like a current version). But do note that if a person is specified as a past version, he won't remember the things that's happened since. Example: If we want Juggernaut as the unstopable Cytorrak Juggernaut, back in his badguy days, he won't remember, nor will he have resources for, his X-Men days. He's the bad guy and that's where it stops.

Additional rules added:

I don't see a big problem with the disputing of debates. With all the matches last season, I think we might have had 10 instances or less where a debate was brought into question.

Yes, it needs to be noted that a tie will be a re-match the next week, and if a tie happens again, it will go to Sparta's thread. If two contestants have fought the previous week to a draw, they will both have a knowledge of the other's tactics and powers, of course...which might just effect the outcome of the rematch. But, that's just the way things work out. With Sparta's thread, each contestant will have an set date to PM Sparta with your debate on why your character should win the match. If you do not get your debate to Sparta in time, the match will still be posted on said date.

I think the dropping out of participants will be handled the same as last year. If someone drops out, their characters will remain unowned until the round ends. At that time, characters will be dispersed. If an odd number of characters remain, those with the least amount of characters will have a shot at an additional character before those with more characters in their roster. (Although, any participant can also waive the right to receive more characters or willingly concede to missing the chance to get an additional character if the odds will leave someone out of dividing characters evenly.)

Amended rules as of 11/16/06:

To vote, you must have a post count of 100.

If a voter only posts in one thread, their votes will not count.

A reminder to voters that to vote you must read debates will be posted at the same time that Phaedrus45 posts the announcement that "voting may begin."
 
The Complete Contest Of Marvels II Character List:

Alpha Flight
1. Aurora (Weapon X)
2. Diamond Lil
3. Guardian (Mac Hudson)
4. Madison Jeffries (Weapon X)
5. Murmur
6. Northstar (Agent Of Hydra)
7. Puck
8. Sasquatch
9. Shaman
10. Snowbird
11. Wildchild (Weapon X)
12. Talisman
13. Windshear
14. Ranark the Ravager
15. The Master

Avengers
16. Attuma
17. Bulldozer
18. Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
19. Black Panther
20. Bloodwraith
21. Captain America
22. Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh)
23. Carol Danvers
24. Crystal
25. Diablo
26. Firebird
27. Grim Reaper
28. Hank Pym
29. Hawkeye
30. Hercules
31. Iron Fist
32. Iron Man
33. Jack of Hearts
34. Kang
35. Klaw
36. Living Lightning
37. Lord Templar
38. Luke Cage
39. Mandarin
40. Mantis
41. Modok
42. Pagan
43. Piledriver
44. The Presence
45. Proctor
46. Protocide
47. Pulsar
48. Quicksilver
49. Red Skull
50. Scarlet Witch
51. Scott Lang
52. Sersi
53. She-Hulk
54. Silver Claw
55. Spider Woman (Jessica Drew)
56. Starfox
57. Taskmaster
58. Thunderball
59. Tigra
60. Triatholon
61. Ultron
62. Vision
63. War Machine
64. Wasp
65. Whirlwind
66. Wonderman
67. Wrecker
68. X-51
69. Falcon & Redwing
70. Speed
71. Ronin
72. Jocasta
73. Quasar
72. The Ghost

Young Avengers:
73. Hulkling
74. Wiccan
75. Patriot
76. Stature
77. Iron Lad

Cosmic
78. Drax (Smart)
79. Firelord
80. Gamora
81. Gladiator
82. Maxam
83. Moondragon
84. Terrax
85. Airwalker
86. Clea
87. Adam Warlock
88. Baron Mordo
89. Baron Karza
90. Morg

exiles
91. Blink (Exiles)
92. Magnus (Exiles)
93. Mimic (Exiles)
94. Morph (Exiles)
95. Namora (Exiles)
96. Nocturne (Exiles)
97. Spider (Exiles)
98. Sunfire (Exiles)
99. Thunderbird (Exiles)
100. Power Princess (Exiles)
101. Spider-Man 2099
102. Armagedon (Exiles)

Fantastic Four
103. Agatha Harkness
104. Annihilus
105. Devos the Devestator
106. Doctor Doom
107. Dragon Man
108. Frankie Raye
109. Mr. Fantastic
110. Gorgon
111. Grey Gargoyle
112. Hatemonger
113. Human Torch
114. Invisible Woman
115. Karnak
116. Lyja Lazerfist
117. Maximus the Mad
118. Medusa
119. Psycho Man
120. Ronan the Accuser
121. Super Skrull
122. Thing
123. Trapster
124. Wizard
125. Mad Thinker
126. Red Ghost

Incredible Hulk

128. Abomination
129. Doctor Sampson
130. Savage Hulk
131. Iron Clad (U-Foes)
132. Leader
133. Maestro
134. Mr. Hyde
135. Speed Freak
136. Super Adaptoid
137. Vaper (U-Foes)
138. Vector (U-Foes)
139. Wendigo
140. X-Ray (U-Foes)
141. Zzzax
142. Armageddon
143. Bi-Beast
144. Boomerang
145. Half Life
146. Madman
147. Mercy
148. Ravage

Marvel Knights

149. Black Widow
150. Bullseye
151. Daredevil
152. Elektra
153. Kingpin
154. Nick Fury
155. Owl
156. Punisher
157. Shang-Chi
158. Typhoid Mary
159. Zaran the Weapons Master
160. Man-Thing
161. Gladiator II
162. Purple Man
163. Fu Manchu
164. Yellow Claw
165. Scorpio

Midnight Sons

166. Blackout
167. Blade the Vampire Hunter
168. Damien Hellstrom
169. Deathwatch
170. Delilah
171. Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze)
172. Hannibal King
173. Jaine Cutter
174. Morbius
175. Patriarch
176. Metarchus
177. Foundry
178. Regent

New Invaders

179. Blazing Skull
180. Namor the Sub-Mariner
181. Spitfire
182. US Agent
183. Union Jack
184. Thin Man

New Warriors

185. Bolt
186. Firestar
187. Justice
188. Namorita
189. Night Thrasher
190. Nova
191. Rage
192. Silhouette
193. Speedball
194. Sphinx
195. Helix
196. Hybrid
197. Alex Powers
198. Microbe
199. Debrii
200. Slapstick
201. Nitro

Runaways

202. Karolina Dean
203. Molly Hayes
204. Nico Minoru
205. Victor Mancha
206. Darkhawk
207. Ricochet
208. Cloak
209. Dagger
210. Topher
211. Swarm

Spider-Man

212. Black Cat
213. Calypso
214. Cardiac
215. Carnage
216. Carrion
217. Demogoblin
218. Doctor Octopus
219. Doppleganger
220. Electro
221. Ezekial
222. Fusion
223. Green Goblin (Norman)
224. Hobgoblin (Kingsley)
225. Hydroman
226. Jack O-Lantern
227. Kaine
228. Kraven the Hunter
229. Lady Doc Ock
230. Lizard
231. Mysterio
232. Puma
233. Rhino
234. Sandman
235. Scarlet Spider
236. Scorpion
237. Shathra
238. Shocker
239. Shriek
240. Spidercide
241. Spider-Girl
242. Spiderman (Red & Blue)
243. Black Tarantula
244. Tri-sentinel
245. Venom (Brock)
246. Vermin
248. The Answer
249. Armada
250. Basilist
251. Crown
252. Headsman
253. Lightmaster
254. Man-Wolf
255. Morlun
256. Scorcher
257. Scream
258. Shadrac
259. Toxin
260. Wraith

Thor

261. Absorbing Man
262. Baldur
263. Beta Ray Bill
264. Bloodaxe
265. Durok the Demolisher
266. Enchantress
267. Fandral
268. Fenris
269. Heimdall
270. Hogun
271. Kurse
272. Sif
273. Thor
274. Thunderstrike
275. Titania
276. Ulik
277. Valkyrie
278. Vidar
279. Ares
280. Man-Beast
281. Growing Man
282. King Cobra
283. Tana Nile
284. Thaialfi
285. Thor Girl
286. Ultimus

Thunderbolts

287. Atlas
288. Baron Zemo
289. Blizzard
290. Charcoal
291. Fixer
292. Gravitron
293. Jolt
294. Joystick
295. Mach IV
296. Moonstone
297. Photon (Genis)
298. Radioactive Man
299. Songbird
300. Speed Demon
301. Tigershark

X-Men

302. Archangel
303. Banshee
304. Beast
305. Bishop
306. Cable (Telepath)
307. Cannonball
308. Chamber (Pre M-Day)
309. Charles Xavier (Pre M-Day)
310. Colossus
311. Cyclops
312. Dazzler
313. Emma Frost
314. Forge
315. Gambit (X-Men)
316. Havoc
317. Husk (AoA)
318. Iceman
319. Jean Grey
320. Joseph
321. Juggernaut (Villain)
322. Kitty Pryde
323. Lifeguard
324. Longshot
325. Marrow
326. Nightcrawler
327. Flatman
328. Polaris (X-Man)
329. Psylocke (Crimson Dawn)
330. Rachel Grey
331. Rogue
332. Stacey X (Pre M-Day)
333. Storm
334. Sunfire (Famine)
335. Thunderbird III
336. Wolverine
337. X-23

X-Other

338. Abyss (AoA)
339. Adam-X
340. Caliban
341. Callisto
342. Captain Britain (Brian Braddock)
343. Chód
344. Danielle Moonstar
345. Deadpool
346. Domino
347. Dust
348. Fantomex
349. Hellion (Julian)
350. Jesse Bedlam
351. Karima Shapandar
352. Karma
353. Kylun
354. Magik (Illyana Rasputin)
355. Magma
356. Maverick
357. Meggan
358. Meltdown
359. Mercury
360. Monet St. Croix
361. Mondo (AoA)
362. Multiple Man
363. Penance
364. Pete Wisdom
365. Prodigy (Pre M Day)
366. Random
367. Raza
368. Richter (Pre M-Day)
369. Rockslide
370. Shard (Hologram)
371. Shatterstar
372. Shola Inkose(Pre M day)
373. Siryn
374. Skin
375. Strong Guy
376. Sunspot
377. Surge
378. Synch
379. Wallflower(House of M)
380. Warlock (M Tech)
381. Warpath
382. Whither(Pre M Day)
383. Wind Dancer (Pre M Day)
384. Wolfesbane
385. Jubilee
386. Tag

X-Villains

387. Apocalypse
388. Avalanche
389. Balasco
390. Black Tom Cassidy (Pre M-Day)
391. Blob (Pre M-Day)
392. Brainchild
393. Cameron Hodge (X-Tinction Agenda)
394. Count Neferia
395. Cyber
396. Dark Beast
397. Deathbird
398. Donald Pierce
399. Emplate
400. Exodus
401. Fabian Cortez
402. Famine
403. Gamesmaster
404. Garrok
405. Gauntlet
406. Gazer (War)
407. Genesis
408. Gideon
409. Goblin Queen
410. Gorgon(Enemy Of The State)
411. Holocaust
412. Kane (Weapon X)
413. Kid Omega (Riot at Xavier's)
414. Lady Deathstrike
415. Magneto (Pre M-Day)
416. Mastermind
417. Mesmero (Pre M-Day)
418. Mr. Sinister
419. Moses Magnum
420. Mystique
421. New Son
422. Nimrod
423. Nuke
424. Omega Red
425. Ozymandias
426. Pestilence
427. Pyro
428. Reaper (Pre M-Day)
429. Riptide
430. Sabastian Shaw
431. Sabretooth
432. Sauron
433. Scalphunter
434. Selene
435. Senyaka
436. Shinobi Shaw
437. Silver Samarai
438. Spiral
439. Sonia Blaze
440. Stryfe
441. Sugar Man
442. Trevor Fitzroy
443. Tusk
444. Uniscone
445. Unus the Untouchable
446. Vargas
447. Vertigo
448. War
449. Wildside
450. Washout (Weapon X)
451. X-Cutioner
452. Zaladane
453. Ahab

X-Men 2099

454. Xi'an Chi Xan
455. Shakti Haddad
456. Metalhead
457. Bloodhawk
458. Skullfire
459. Junkpile
460. Halloween Jack
461. La Lunatica
462. Breakdown
463. Brimstone Love


Others

464. Bloodstorm
465. Brother Voodoo
466. Constrictor
467. Deadgirl
468. Deathloc
469. Death's Head II
470. Dusk
471. Fallen
472. Gravity
473. Hisako Ichiki
474. Hornet
475. J2
476. Moon Knight
477. Prodigy (Slingers)
478. Prowler
479. Sleepwalker
480. Quake
481. Ch'vayre
482. Paibok the Power Skrull
483. Vengance
484. Arkon
485. Basilisk
486. Baron Blood
487. Star-Lord
488. Controller
489. Darkstar
490. Domina
491. Dreadnaught
492. Empath
493. Pluto
494. Killer Shrike
495. Professor Power
496. Petra
497. Plant Man
498. Will O' The Wisp
499. Squirrel Girl
500. Doorman
501. Big Bertha
502. Mr. Immortal
503. Wild Thing
504. Darkdevil
505. Jim Hammond
506. Demask
507. Harvest
508. Georgeous George
509. Ruckus
510. Super Sabre
511. Her
512. Korath
 
Participants:

1) Trigger
2) Wiegeabo
3) Harlekin
4) Wolverine25th
5) Phaedrus45
6) DarkHellRider
7) HippyFascist
8) MidnightIce
9) Zoken
10) LaneMyer
11) Kytrigger
12) Iceman/Psylocke
13) JewishHobbit
14) Darthphere
15) Hellstormer
16) AnnoyingSilence
17) Ahura Mazda
 
From Wiegeabo concerning submitting your lists:

Couple of things about the draft lists. We've got 17 people, meaning 30 characters for each of us. If you're not going to have the full 30 characters, let me know when you submit your lists.

And no matter how many characters you want, your list should be at least 75-100 characters long at a minimum. Actually, a 150 character minimum would be better. But only if everyone submits a complete 512 list will we be sure everyone gets an equal number of characters (if that is the goal). And all your characters should be in order by how much you want them.

It's probably not necessary to say all that, but we had problems last year with people not understanding how draft lists work. So they made very short lists and didn't rank them in any particular order, meaning they didn't get characters they wanted and/or not very many characters.

I've got to look over the program this weekend. But since I don't think we made any changes to how the draft will be performed, it should be good to go. Which means anytime all the lists are in, we can get to drafting.


Just so everone knows, here's how the program works. It takes everyone's list and randomly orders them, keeping this order throughout the entire draft. When it looks at a list, it starts at the top and moves down until it finds a character no one else has. Then that character is added to your final list.

Now here's the tricky part. If your list is too short and all the characters in it are taken, then your done with the draft. The program will check your list, see no one is available, and skip over you. This means you can have fewer characters than others, and those with longer lists can end up with more characters. But, as Phaed said, the way to avoid this is just stick the rest of the characters you don't care about at the end of your list. If everyone has all 512 in their list, then we'll all get the same number of characters.


And a request on the draft lists: Make sure each character is on their own line, there are no numbers or anything other than the names, and there is no punctuation--parenthesis are ok, but spaces can especially confuse the program. What's most important is that every name on your list look exactly the same as it does on the master list because the computer won't be able to tell two characters are the same if any differences exist.


If I have time, I'll go through the master list and create a version that everyone can copy/paste from so the program can read it. Otherwise I'll at least put up a sample so Phaed or someone else can put together a program friendly list.
 
Just remember, when submitting your lists, don't have any spaces in the names (thus, Mr. Fantastic will be submitted as Mr.Fantastic and Aurora (Weapon X) would be Aurora(WeaponX)), make sure you list contains all 512 characters (if you only go up to a certain number, just add the rest of the characters in any order you want), and turn you list within 2 weeks, by October 5th, in to both Wiegeabo and Phaedrus45 (this ensures that if something happens and we lose a list, we have a backup).
 
Assuming we all go for maximum number of characters, each of us is going to get 30. But since 30*17 = 510, what should we do about the two extra characters?
 
wiegeabo said:
Assuming we all go for maximum number of characters, each of us is going to get 30. But since 30*17 = 510, what should we do about the two extra characters?

you could have them as wildcards debated by a person not directly involved in the match and then if they are left at the end split them between last two people :up:
 
hippy fascist said:
you could have them as wildcards debated by a person not directly involved in the match and then if they are left at the end split them between last two people :up:

That's an idea. Two people volunteer to fight with them.

A couple of other ideas:

Leave them unowned and the lucky two characters fighting them will likely get a free ride to the next round (unless they are highly unmatched).

Give them to whoever owns their opponent in the first round so they pretty much get to pick who moves on to the second round in the fight (unless both unowned characters somehow face eachother in the first round).

Give them to Phead, JH, or me for getting the season running. :p

Let whoever happens to get them in the draft keep them as a reward for being lucky (they'll get 31 instead of 30).
 
The last two characters go to the two people who were randomly chosen to pick last in the draft.
 
wiegeabo said:
Give them to Phead, JH, or me for getting the season running. :p

yeah man I read your debates from last year, you could use all the help you can get :p
 
Any chance then of getting that draft list changed? I'm not really in the mood to change the entire list to the, although logical, tedious specifications.
 
As I get them submitted to me, I will try to look them over and make the necessary changes. I just ask everyone to try their best; but, if anyone is stressed for time, I will do my best to fix them.
 
Harlekin said:
Any chance then of getting that draft list changed? I'm not really in the mood to change the entire list to the, although logical, tedious specifications.


Easy way to get rid of all the spaces, load the list in Word or Notepad and do a search/replace, replacing all of the spaces with nothing. You may have to turn the Match Case option on (only works in Notepad when Match Case is on).


And, although I'd rather not have any punctuation except parenthesis, as long as the Master List has the same puncuation then it should be fine. Except for those damn spaces! :mad:
 
I don't suppose a (Wiegabo's) machine friendly master list could be created without spaces or category headings so that everyone would only have to rearrange the order of their list. If not, do I include numbers for ranking in the list or just the names in the order of choice?

Also, is the idea behind the draft list to rank favourite characters highly or those that are more powerful (and therefore easier to create arguments for). I'm guessing a mixture of the two but I'd rather be sure. :up:
 
If I have time I'll try and make a master list everyone can copy and paste from. Probably when I make my own list.

Rank characters however you want. Whatever strategy you think will give you the best advantage and list of characters. Don't put any numbers, just put the ones you want to rank high closer to the top of your list.
 
wiegeabo said:
If I have time I'll try and make a master list everyone can copy and paste from. Probably when I make my own list.

Rank characters however you want. Whatever strategy you think will give you the best advantage and list of characters. Don't put any numbers, just put the ones you want to rank high closer to the top of your list.
Thanks :up:

I better get started. This sort of thing takes me ages. :yay:
 
We could also just edit the list, get rid of all the problems (like any of the (Pre M-Day) stuff). I think the only thing that we'd need to fix if we get rid of the "()"s is make an Armegeddon I and Armegeddon II.
If that sounds good, I'll fix the list right away.

EDIT: Also, if I do go and edit, should I eliminate all punctuation too?
 
Go ahead and leave the parenthesis. The program ran last season with them just fine, and it'll be easier for us when choosing characters.

Any other edits you want to do are fine.
 
Well, I went through and made the changes I needed with my list; so, let's just leave them as is. Also, I've gotten a couple lists, and I'll need to add necessary characters to them.

After I receive someone's list and I make necessary changes in format or adding characters left off, I will post who's turned stuff in. If you turn in your list, and within a couple days don't see your name posted, you'll know something might be up. Just let me know.
 
I'm actually numbering mine, but some people don't have numbers. Does it make a difference, and what would be easier for you, Wiegeabo?
 
No numbers please. Computer programs are stupid and only understand what you tell them to look for. And I only told it to look for names.
 
wiegeabo said:
No numbers please. Computer programs are stupid and only understand what you tell them to look for. And I only told it to look for names.

OK, if anyone submits with numbers, I will remove them for you if it's easier.
 
Darn it! The box with Civil War #4 won't be in until tomorrow. You guys with more than 1 comic shop around you are damn lucky!
 
I hope you guys are ready to be dominated.
 

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