Contest Of Marvels II Discussion Thread

[Phaedrus45]

First, for anyone who is interested in joining Contest Of Marvels II, just PM either JewishHobbit or me. This contest will not start for awhile, as we prepare for the next season, discussing which 512 Marvel Characters we would like to see take part this season, which things we liked and disliked from the previous season, and fine tuning the particulars.

If anything needs to be changed, please let your opinion be known. From what I've understood, here are some of the rules to next season:

1) To participate in Contest Of Marvels II, you must be willing to at least commit yourself to give each character on your list at least a short paragraph explaining why you believe he/she should advance into the next round versus their opponent for that week. (Such circumstances as to why you might not get up a debate are acceptable; such as, prior to debating, letting JH or Phaedrus know you will not be available for a select amount of days to participate due to whatever reason....or, maybe it's so lopsided of a match-up, you willingly conceed defeat.) Due to the length and time needed to commit to this contest, we will allow this season for those who wish to participate to have a select number of characters if that is their desire, with a minimum of 10 characters. (With 512 characters, I think this is a good number that nobody would be overwhelmed with this contest.)

2) That said, I want to make one point clear. Those who decide to select a limited amount of characters are eligible for the grand prize of the contest...but, any other prizes given out will only be eligible for those who commit to a full roster. (This is important, because prizes are determined by winning percentage...and, those contestants with only 10 characters would probably have a better winning percentage and take the "best record" of Round 1 & 2.) There are usually 6 prizes given out for this contest. Best record of Round 1, Worst Record of Round 1, Best Record of Round 2, Worst Record of Round 2, Grand Prize Winner, and Runner-Up Grand Prize.

3) Characters - (To be discussed at a later time, after all other rules are agreed upon)

4) Locations - Locations this year will be determined before hand. And, each location shall be placed in a given week before brackets are determined. This will ensure that everything is completely random. (I would like this to be Powderman's job, if he is willing to take it again this season. Anyone with suggestions, please PM Powder with locations you would like to see for CoMII, and Powder will let us know a date when he could have the list of locations ready. Powder will submit this list to JH for final approval. Also, if anyone can figure out the amount of weeks a season takes for completion, that would probably be a big help.)

5) Debating - Debating will be a little different this season. We will keep the same schedule of matches being posted on Friday. Debating can be done as soon as ALL MATCHES are posted. The first debate that is posted by you, though, cannot be a debate of your opponents debate. You must tell in at least a paragraph why you believe your charaacter can win his/her match. Afterwards, written sparing will be allowed to counter-debate your opponents argument. (Again, keep it civil. No name calling!!!) Only those who own characters may debate. (No help can be given by other people, in or out of the contest.) If a person has a question about your character or debate that seems pertinent, they can ask it. (i.e. If you mention a weapon or power your character is going to use, someone can question whether it's in that character's ability to have it.) Decisions about the validity of a debate will be determined by JH or Phaed if a problem arises. If the problem involves JH or Phaed's character, then the opposing person will make the decision. (i.e. If someone argues JH is incorrect in a point of his debate, it will be up to Phaed to make the decision whether it's allowed.) Finally, the major point that will be different this year: Once voting begins on Tuesday, debating is over. No matter how much you might want to make another point, you cannot. But, voters can make a brief statement (usually a sentence) saying why they might have voted for a character.

Also, a character can only use the resources that would normally be available to him/her. The Thing would be able to get information about a match from the Fantastic Four's data base, but Spider-Man wouldn't necessarily have that at his disposal.

6) Voting - One matter will change about voting this season. Still, once you make your decision, it will be final. But, if you vote and realize you mistakingly voted for the wrong character, I think it should be allowed for that person to change their vote. Since debating will officially end when voting begins, the chance someone can be swayed differently is greatly reduced, and I think it's fair to say we'll trust our voters to be honest when they say they made a mistake. Again, all votes must be based on reading all debates and coming to your own conclusion with all the information given. Please, do not vote for a character solely because you like them or don't like them. Also, make the same consideration for the participants in the contest.

7) Victory - A new rule this season to eliminate any confusion, any victory is not an argument for future victories.

Added rules by JH:

One thing I do want to expand on though is the mention of resources. Your example of Thing using the FF database as a resource, but Spidey can't is fine, but I want to make a little closer line in regards to teammates. Thing cannot use a doohicky made by Reed unless it was specifically made for the Thing. If Reed's made some telepathic blocker, the Thing cannot go and use it because his teammate used it, it's Reed's resource not Thing's. Also, just because you're on a team, doesn't mean everything that team has is at your disposal. Example... Gambit cannot use Cerebro because he's not telepathic and he's never used Cerebro... but he could probably use a smaller, less effect, hand held cerebro unit, as those can be used by any X-Man (main X-men, not the offshoot X-Characters or students and such). Basically what I"m saying is, use common sense on resources and if you aren't sure about something, just ask. Comments questions?

I think we decided to outlaw all Infinity Gems, so I just wanted to mention that again.

We also have to make an official decision on the labling of characters and what versions we are using. Last season I put a "commonly known as" rule into play, and while I think it worked pretty good, I think it may be best to do something a little more detailed and definate. Some characters were hard to judge on the common rule, such as Drax who was evenly intellegent and dumb, so it's hard to call. I kinda like the idea Phaed threw out there of all characters being their Current version unless otherwise noted (and I get the feeling we'll have a lot of noted characters, so don't worry about if you don't like a current version). But do note that if a person is specified as a past version, he won't remember the things that's happened since. Example: If we want Juggernaut as the unstopable Cytorrak Juggernaut, back in his badguy days, he won't remember, nor will he have resources for, his X-Men days. He's the bad guy and that's where it stops.

Additional rules added:

I don't see a big problem with the disputing of debates. With all the matches last season, I think we might have had 10 instances or less where a debate was brought into question...and, I believe Powder makes himself more available than even me or JH. (That dude is always hanging around.) If he has to leave, then let's be said that rulings shall be determined by JH or Phaed, and Powder is to give us warning if he's going to be away for a set amount of time.

Yes, it needs to be noted that a tie will be a re-match the next week, and if a tie happens again, it will go to Sparta's thread. If two contestants have fought the previous week to a draw, they will both have a knowledge of the other's tactics and powers, of course...which might just effect the outcome of the rematch. But, that's just the way things work out. With Sparta's thread, each contestant will have an set date to PM Sparta with your debate on why your character should win the match. If you do not get your debate to Sparta in time, the match will still be posted on said date.

I think the dropping out of participants will be handled the same as last year. If someone drops out, their characters will remain unowned until the round ends. At that time, characters will be dispersed. If an odd number of characters remain, those with the least amount of characters will have a shot at an additional character before those with more characters in their roster. (Although, any participant can also waive the right to receive more characters or willingly concede to missing the chance to get an additional character if the odds will leave someone out of dividing characters evenly.)

 

[Da Docta]

I'll need to think about this...

 

[Phaedrus45]

I'll start things off by discussing two items: One, are we going to begin the contest by making sure all characters are equally divided between all participants, or are we going to all start off with around 20 characters each...and, then the additional characters left in the second round being divided among remaining participants? (I guess this also depends on how many participants we get to begin the second season.)

Second, how much interaction are we going to expect participants to have in regards to voting and debating. One of the downsides of last season was in having contestants drop off (which, might not be such a problem....many will realize what's expected now with the season 1 wrapping up), or contestants not debating or even voting sometimes (which, if you have a character going up against someone pretty tough might not be a problem...but, some characters could have been contenders in the matches if they had adequate representation.)

 

[Da Docta]

I'll start things off by discussing two items: One, are we going to begin the contest by making sure all characters are equally divided between all participants, or are we going to all start off with around 20 characters each...and, then the additional characters left in the second round being divided among remaining participants? (I guess this also depends on how many participants we get to begin the second season.)

I think you should just divide the character from the beginning; it just seems more appropriate.

Second, how much interaction are we going to expect participants to have in regards to voting and debating. One of the downsides of last season was in having contestants drop off (which, might not be such a problem....many will realize what's expected now with the season 1 wrapping up), or contestants not debating or even voting sometimes (which, if you have a character going up against someone pretty tough might not be a problem...but, some characters could have been contenders in the matches if they had adequate representation.)

Yeah, I'm sorry for quiting. However, it'd be a good idea for JH to first see if the people participating are always online and reliable people.

IMO, for the contest to be a bit different, I think the battles should be by teams. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Also for discussion, which characters should we keep out next time. Of course, Thanos won't be participating. I think Molecule Man shouldn't be in it also.

Additional names we might consider:

Desak
High Evolutionary
Kid Omega (He really is that powerful. Black Bolt probably shouldn't have beat him the second time around.)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Powder, I tried to send you another PM, but it says your file is full.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Points of discussion:

1) Participants - How much participation should we really expect?

2) Prep Time - What should we expect from our characters during the 24 hour prep time? Should they be able to use only sources that would normally be available? Should they be able to consult their own teamates? Is previous matches that have happened in other rounds considered as viewable to contestants (like a mojoverse type thing)?

3) Characters - Which characters that weren't used last time would you like to see next round? (Man-Thing, definitely. Plus, new characters are now available, like Gravity.) Is there certain criteria we should exclude? (i.e. Cosmic powers, reality altering.) Should all characters involved be divided up between all partipants? Could someone ever be able to say, "I want to be involved, but I would only like to focus my attention on a certain number of characters?" If someone gets a character you really like, should trading before the contest begins be allowed? (i.e. "I'll give you my Thing and Mr. Fantastic for your Kitty Pryde.")

4) Debates - Should some type of schedule be more defined for debating, or should participants be allowed to debate until the voting is over? Do you like it when debates get so heated? Were there moments that you believe a debate went too far?

5) Locations - Any locations you would like to see next round? If we have a location, such as the Daily Bugle, should normal circumstances be taken into consideration? (i.e. bystanders, driven cars.) As a location can make the difference in a match, should we have locations and dates for each made up before brackets, this way making sure all circumstances are completely random?

6) Voting - How long should we have voting last? Did you feel Tuesday morning to Thursday morning was adequate? Should everyone be allowed to vote that wants to vote? Should everyone be expected to vote in all matches for votes to count? (i.e. DH only voting in threads that happened to involve his characters.) Do you like the rule, once you vote, that's it, no changing your mind? (kind of falls into the category of debating, with people getting more information when debating continues through the voting days.)

7) Victory - Should each victory be taken into account when battling your next opponent? (i.e. Malice takes over Thing's body and wins. Should the next round then ideally involve Thing/Malice versus that opponent?) Also, as previously mentioned, if a character has defeated a certain character already in battle, should that be a point to be mentioned in future debates? Does you previous matches then be taken as fact as your character has defeated another character?

If there is anything I've left out, let me know. Some items I really don't see being debated that I pointed out...but, I just wanted to get ideas started that make us think.

 

[POWdER-man]

Powder, I tried to send you another PM, but it says your file is full.

I emptied most of my box so it's good to go....I didn't see this thread before...

 

[Phaedrus45]

I've gotten 3 PMs so far with people who would like to possibly participate in Season II....So, with me, we have 4 "possible" participants at this stage. Any of the old members from Season 1, let me know if you are interested in possibly giving it another go around.

(Oh, and next week, I should be getting the prizes out. I've been real busy this week, getting the house up for sale and all, while working both jobs.)

 

[wiegeabo]

I think to get started on the list of characters, we should post the old list of 512 here. Then we can clearly see who to take out, and decide on who to be replacments and how many are needed.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Wow, somehow I missed this thread. Way to be a go getter Phaed

I've actually been very busy lately, and I'm about to leave for work at the moment, but tonight and tomorrow, I'll get on to try to help hash out ideas and give my opinions on things.

I'll try to get a complete list of characters from last season up here soon. I know that in the previous thread (or maybe it was the thread before that one even) I posted all characters separated into categories (X-Men, Spiderman, Avengers, etc) so it was easier to find characters and such. I do know though that we made a few changes, so we'll have to find all of those. Other than that, we may just have to take the brackets I made and divy those characters up into groups again. It makes it easier overall if the characters are grouped.

 

[POWdER-man]

Points of discussion:

1) Participants - How much participation should we really expect?

The problem with this is that this contest lasts for so long that you sometimes lose focus. I was running out of steam by the end of it, as you could probably tell. The worst week was when I had those 6 matches in one week near the end.

I think there should be at least one argument per week. If you don't have time to spend 15-30 minutes a week, that you can't consistently commit to for the next 9 months than there is no point in signing up. As well as any short term absences should be announced, with maybe a "fill in" to take over for that week or two.

2) Prep Time - What should we expect from our characters during the 24 hour prep time? Should they be able to use only sources that would normally be available? Should they be able to consult their own teamates? Is previous matches that have happened in other rounds considered as viewable to contestants (like a mojoverse type thing)?

I think, especially for teams like the Avengers, that the character should have access to the database resources (not other teamates) and anything that they would normally use. The problem with not doing this, is that anyone who is an Avenger could be using Tony's armour in an argument as an example. This leaves it more simple and makes the match more focused on the actual match and not on mundane issues.

I never agreed with the whole previous match thing too, because we are all playing on hypothetical matchups. I really think they should be left to individual matchups, without having to discuss previous matchups that have never actually happened. Just because they beat so and so in the Contest, which we will call a "What If", doesn't neccesarily mean they would actually beat them in the comics. So because of that I don't think it should be used as an argument to use against someone later in the tournament. Especially if the reason for that previous victory was because the losing owner didn't debate their match effectively or at all.

3) Characters - Which characters that weren't used last time would you like to see next round? (Man-Thing, definitely. Plus, new characters are now available, like Gravity.) Is there certain criteria we should exclude? (i.e. Cosmic powers, reality altering.) Should all characters involved be divided up between all partipants? Could someone ever be able to say, "I want to be involved, but I would only like to focus my attention on a certain number of characters?" If someone gets a character you really like, should trading before the contest begins be allowed? (i.e. "I'll give you my Thing and Mr. Fantastic for your Kitty Pryde.")

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the House of M characters that were similiar but different, like Invincible Woman and the human torch lookalike, since they were in fact different characters.

Cosmic Powers should remain since there are characters that could beat them that don't have those powers. Of course they will still plow through the tournament.

Reality Altering, a definite NO. There are way too many probablities and variables to consider, and one could argue that they could do anything they wanted....

I like the idea of trading but it should be one and one.

I think anyone who signs up should be commited in debating for each character. Of course the amount of debating is subjective so they could put as little effort in it or at least acknowledge defeat...

4) Debates - Should some type of schedule be more defined for debating, or should participants be allowed to debate until the voting is over? Do you like it when debates get so heated? Were there moments that you believe a debate went too far?

I think when voting ends debating should end. There were quite a few times I would have my debate up during the weekend, where I had more time, and my opponent didn't reply until voting started. This left it difficult, when I had less time to rebuttal.

The other way we could look at, is that we could have each opponent post a "strategy" first (with no debating on the other person's strategy) which would have to be BEFORE voting started. If not, than they would forfeit that post. However, debating on issues could be on the first day of voting or maybe we could leave that day to be "Debate Day" and when that day is over, voting will start with no debating whatsoever.

So something like this

Friday - Monday- Post strategy. Once strategy has been posted debating on issues can be made.
Tuesday - Debating ONLY. Which means no placing a strategy and only debating issues.
Wednesday Morning - Friday Morning - Voting ONLY.

5) Locations - Any locations you would like to see next round? If we have a location, such as the Daily Bugle, should normal circumstances be taken into consideration? (i.e. bystanders, driven cars.) As a location can make the difference in a match, should we have locations and dates for each made up before brackets, this way making sure all circumstances are completely random?

New ideas are always welcomed. We could take a page from the DTL and have locations outside the Marvel Universe. Movies, TV, even DC....

I hated arguing about bystanders being helpless and being used against me in a match. I think it should remain a one on one match without having outside interference sidetracking the actual match between the two. Especially since this would be an automatic handicap to Heroes and an advantage to all villains. It would never be the other way around.

I think all the locations should be picked out at the beginning and mentioned in the thread but not told which week.

6) Voting - How long should we have voting last? Did you feel Tuesday morning to Thursday morning was adequate? Should everyone be allowed to vote that wants to vote? Should everyone be expected to vote in all matches for votes to count? (i.e. DH only voting in threads that happened to involve his characters.) Do you like the rule, once you vote, that's it, no changing your mind? (kind of falls into the category of debating, with people getting more information when debating continues through the voting days.)

I thought the duration was sufficient.

As for who gets to vote, this is tough. I lost a VERY important matchup, which would have turned the tournament around because someone voted who wasn't a part of the tournament. I am of course talking about the Xavier/Thanos matchup where it ended up a tie the first week. The one less vote for Thanos would have given Xavier the win....

The other problem was that some didn't know the rules, and voted before the debating, who they liked better and some probably didn't even read the debates (not all), but some. Which defeated the whole purpose of putting effort in your matchups.

So I strongly believe if participation is better this time around and everyone who is in the tournament actually participates than there shouldn't be a problem with having enough votes. Basing this on nearly 20 participants.

7) Victory - Should each victory be taken into account when battling your next opponent? (i.e. Malice takes over Thing's body and wins. Should the next round then ideally involve Thing/Malice versus that opponent?) Also, as previously mentioned, if a character has defeated a certain character already in battle, should that be a point to be mentioned in future debates? Does you previous matches then be taken as fact as your character has defeated another character?

Just as I mentioned above I don't think this is neccesary and shouldn't be allowed. I don't think it would be right to base an argument on something that has never happened, since there's no definitive answer if thats the way the match would turn out. Plus there are already many things to argue about so why add to things when you don't have to

BTW didn't we think Malice was a bad character to have in the tournament?

 

[Phaedrus45]

I've already been starting to write down characters who might be included next season. I'm hoping next week to have some characters up to be discussed on whether we think they should be included. One of the best things about this contest, I thought, was having characters that we really never heard about, but discovered they really were undiscovered talent that maybe Marvel hasn't really used to the fullest extent.

 

[POWdER-man]

Here was the previous lineup. One thing I think should be mentioned was that Infinity Gems should not be allowed for any of the characters. It was lead to believe at the beginning that they didn't grant the bearer anymore powers, which turned out to be untrue.

Alpha Flight
Aurora, Flex, Diamond Lil, Guardian, Madison Jeffries, Murmur, Northstar, Puck, Radius, Sasquatch, Shaman, Snowbird, Vindicator, Wildchild

Avengers
Asguardian, Attuma, Bulldozer, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Black Panther, Bloodwraith, Captain America, Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh), Carol Danvers, Cassie Lang, Crystal, Diablo, Firebird, Falcon, Gilgamesh, Grim Reaper, Hank Pym, Hawkeye, Hawkingbird, Hercules, High Evolutionary, Hulkling, Ikaris (Eternal), Iron Fist, Ironlad, Iron Man, Jack of Hearts, Jessica Jones, Kang, Klaw, Kulan Gath, Living Lightning, Lord Templar, Luke Cage, Mandarin, Mantis, Mockingbird, Modok, Pagan, Patriot, Piledriver, The Presence, Proctor, Protocide, Pulsar, Quasar, Quicksilver, Red Skull, Scarlet Witch, Scott Lang, Scourge I, Sersi, She-Hulk, Silver Claw, Spider Woman (Jessica Drew), Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter), Starfox, Supreme Intelligence, Swordsman I, Taskmaster, Thena, Thunderball, Tigra, Triatholon, Ultron, Vision, War Machine, Wasp, Whirlwind, Wonderman, Wrecker, X-51

Cosmic Powers
Adam Warlock, Drax, Dr. Strange, Eros, Firelord, Gamora, Gladiator, Lilandra, Magus (Infinity Watch), Maxam, Moondragon, Morg, Pip the Troll, Silver Surfer, Terrax, Thanos, Wong

Exiles
Blink (Exiles), Hyperion (Exiles), Magik (Exiles), Magnus (Exiles), Mimic (Exiles), Morph (Exiles), Namora (Exiles), Nocturne (Exiles), Sabretooth (Exiles), Sasquatch (Exiles), Spider (Exiles), Sunfire (Exiles), Thunderbird (Exiles)

Fantastic Four
Agatha Harkness, Annihilus, Blackbolt, Blastaar, Devlor, Devos the Devestator, Diablo, Doctor Doom, Dragon Man, Frankie Raye, Franklin Richards, Mr. Fantastic, Gorgon, Grey Gargoyal, Hatemonger, Human Torch, Huntara, Invisible Woman, Karnak, Kristoff Vernhard (Doom), Lyja Lazerfist, Malice, Maximus the Mad, Medusa, Molecule Man, Mole Man, Nathaniel Richards, Ox, Puppet Master, Psycho Man, Ring Leader, Ronan the Accuser, Super Skrull, Thing, Trapster, Vibraxas, Wizard

Hulk
Abomination, Doctor Sampson, Incredible Hulk, General Ryker, Iron Clad (U-Foes), Leader, Maestro, Mr. Hyde, Speed Freak, Super Adaptoid, Vaper (U-Foes), Vector (U-Foes), Wendigo, Wood God, X-Ray (U-Foes), Zzzax

Marvel Knights
Black Widow, Bullseye, Daredevil, Elektra, Howard the Duck, Jigsaw, Kingpin, Nick Fury, Owl, Punisher, Shang-Chi, Sharon Carter, Stilt Man, Typhoid Mary, Zaran the Weapons Master

Midnight Sons
Blackout, Blade the Vampire Hunter, Damien Hellstrom, Deathwatch, Delilah, Ghost Rider (Danny Ketch), Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Hannibal King, Jaine Cutter, Morbius

New Invaders
Blazing Skull, Human Torch (Tara), Namor the Sub-Mariner, Spitfire, The Torch (Jim Hammond), Union Jack, US Agent

New Warriors
Alex Powers, Bandit, Bolt, Firestar, Justice, Namorita, Night Thrasher, Nova, Rage, Silhouette, Speedball, Sphinx

Runaways
Alex Wilder, Gertrude Yorkes, Karolina Dean, Chase Stein, Molly Hayes, Nico Minoru, Victor Mancha, Julie Powers, Darkhawk, Green Goblin (Phil Urich), Turbo, Ricochet, Cloak, Dagger

Spider-Man
Black Cat, Calypso, Cardiac, Carnage, Carrion, Chameleon, Demogoblin, Doctor Octopus, Doppleganger, Electro, Ezekial, Fusion, Green Goblin (Harry), Green Goblin (Norman), Hammerhead, Hobgoblin (Kingsley), Hobgoblin (Jason), Hydroman, Jackle, Jack O-Lantern, Judas Traveler, Kaine, Kraven the Hunter, Lady Doc Ock, Lizard, Midnight, Molten Man, Mysterio, Puma, Rhino, The Rose (Fisk), Sandman, Scarlet Spider, Scorpion, Scrier, Shathra, Shocker, Shriek, Spidercide, Spider-Girl, Spiderman, Tarranchula, Tombstone, Tri-Sentinel, Venom, Vermin, Vulture

Thor
Absorbing Man, Baldur, Beta Ray Bill, Bloodaxe, Desak, Durok the Demolisher, Enchantress, Fanfral, Fenris, Heimdall, Hogun, Kurse, Loki, Sif, Thor, Thunderstrike, Titania, Ulik, Valkyrie, Vidar, Volstagg

Thunderbolts
Atlas, Baron Wolfgang Von Strucker, Baron Zemo, Blizzard, Charcoal, Fixer, Gravitron, Jolt, Joystick, Llyron (Fathom 5), Mach IV, Moonstone, Photon (Genis), Radioactive Man, Scourge (Nomad), Songbird, Speed Demon, Swordsman II, Tigershark

X-Men
Archangel, Banshee, Beast, Bishop, Cable, Cannonball, Cecelia Reyes, Chamber, Charles Xavier, Colossus, Cyclops, Dazzler, Emma Frost, Forge, Gambit, Havoc, Husk, Iceman, Jean Grey, Joseph, Jubilee, Juggernaut, Kitty Pryde, Lifeguard, Longshot, Maggott, Marrow, Mimic, Nightcrawler, Northstar, Polaris, Psylocke, Rachel Grey, Revanche, Rogue, Sage, Slipstream, Stacey X, Storm, Sunfire, Thunderbird I, Thunderbird III, Wolverine, Xorn II, X-23

Other X
Abyss, Adam-X, Amelia Voght, Beak, Caliban, Callisto, Captain Britain (Brian Braddock), Chód, Corsair, Count Neferia, Danielle Moonstar, Deadpool, Domino, Douglock, Dust, Elixir, Fantomex, Feral, Gateway, Hellion (Julian), Hepzibah, Ikaris (Jae Guthrie), Jesse Bedlam, Karima Shapandar, Karma, Kazar the Savage, Kylun, Lockheed, Magik (Amanda Sefton), Magik (Illyana Rasputin), Magma, Maverick, Meggan, Meltdown, Mercury, Monet St. Croix, Mondo, Multiple Man, Nate Grey, Penance, Pete Wisdom, Prodigy (Academy X), Random, Raza, Richter, Rockslide, Shard, Shatterstar, Shanna the She-Devil, Shola Inkose, Siryn, Skin, Stepford Cuckoos, Strong Guy, Sunspot, Surge, Synch, Tag, Wallflower, Warlock (New Mutants), Warpath, Whither, Wind Dancer, Wolfesbane

X-Villains
Azazel, Ahab, Apocalypse, Avalanche, Balasco, Bastion, Black Tom Cassidy, Blob, Brainchild, Cameron Hodge, Cassandra Nova, Cyber, Dark Beast, Deathbird, Donald Pierce, Emplate, Exodus, Fabian Cortez, Famine, Gamesmaster, Garrok, Gauntlet, Genesis, Gideon, Goblin Queen, Holocaust, Kane (Weapon X), Kid Omega, Lady Deathstrike, Legion, Magneto, Mastermind, Mastermold, Mesmero, Mr. Sinister, Mojo, Moses Magnum, Mystique, New Son, Nimrod, Omega Red, Ozymandias, Pestilence, Pyro, Reaper, Riptide, Sabastian Shaw, Sabretooth, Sauron, Scalphunter, Selene, Senyaka, Shadow King, Shinobi Shaw, Silver Samarai, Spiral, Sonia Blaze, Stryfe, Sugar Man, Toad, Trevor Fitzroy, Tusk, Uniscone, Unus the Untouchable, Vanisher, Vargas, Vertigo, Viper, War, Wildside, Washout (Weapon X), X-Cutioner, Zaladane, Zero

Other
Brother Voodoo, Constrictor, Deathloc, Death's Head II, Dormammu, Dusk, Gargoyal, Hornet, Moon Knight, Nighthawk, Nightwatch, Prodigy (Slingers), Prowler, Silver Sable, Sleepwalker

 

[Ahura Mazda]

So are the very ubers being ejected or are characters like Thanos and such available?

 

[Trigger]

Thanos won the last time, so he shouldn't be eligible. Uber character's aren't allowed for the most part (no Living Tribunal, Odin, etc)

 

[POWdER-man]

My choices for too Uber..

Molecule Man
Loki
Doctor Strange
Thanos
Desak
High Evolutionary
Franklin Richards?
House of M Scarlet Witch
Dormammu
Infinity Gems

There a few more characters that are close...

 

[Trigger]

I agree with a lot of those because prep time ends up making some of them (Loki, Strange, and Dormammu in particular) nigh-invincible. Also, I'm pretty sure there's no denying how powerful the Infinity Gems are at this point.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Meh, the Infinity Gems should be allowed, save for Thanos'. All the other Watch members were not close to being Too Uber with their gems.

 

[POWdER-man]

You said that before and Adam Warlock turned out to have a lot more power with the Soul Gem. They are ALREADY pretty powerful without the gems, so why bother increasing them? Just so they could cream the competition even more... Except Pip he could have his gem...

I say leave them out.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, some considerations for exclusion from the list:

Powerful:

Scarlet Witch: Goes with reality altering powers. She is a major avenger...but, you could actually argue the extent of her powers. Of course, you could also argue that someone like Professor X or Jean Grey has the ability to take her out.

Adam Warlock/Magus: Maybe too powerful, especially considering Adam would definitely have his gem available.

Thanos: No discussion...he's out.

Hyperion: To me, just as powerful as Thanos. He should be taken out, in my estimation.

Franklin Richards: There are two sides to Franklin, each of which should cause his elimination. One, he's uber-powerful with reality altering powers. Or, two, he's just a little kid who really shouldn't be in this thing.

Molecule Man: Too powerful, and needs to be eliminated.

Desak: He could easily have won Season 1...I think he would be an odds on favorite, just like Hyperion, and needs to be eliminated.

Kid Omega: Definitely, I can see him eliminating any of the above.

The Lame:

Beak: Nuff said.

General Ryker: Someone in the military, like Ryker or Ross, really should be in the match, because they don't have any specific power. Someone like Nick Fury is different, because of who they are and the amount of firepower they can bring to a match.

Sharon Carter: Although a member of S.H.I.E.L.D., she doesn't do much for me. We might as well have Dum Dum Dugan.

Howard The Duck: I don't think too many people could give a valid reason to have him ever advance to another round...unless he's facing Beak.

Pip The Troll: No gem? No Pip.

Gateway: This guy is either really powerful or really lame...kind of like Franklin Richards. Either way, there is too little known about him, which leaves the owner to be allowed to make wild hypothesis' about his powers.

 

[Phaedrus45]

My choices for too Uber..

Molecule Man
Loki
Doctor Strange
Thanos
Desak
High Evolutionary
Franklin Richards?
House of M Scarlet Witch
Dormammu
Infinity Gems

There a few more characters that are close...

I totally agree with High Evolutionary and Dormammu. I'm iffy on Dr. Strange and Loki. We know Thor can beat Loki...and, we will be having various Asgardians. And, Dr. Strange is beatable. I would imagine characters like Professor Xavier would have an easier time with him.

We might want to consider eliminating Black Bolt, too. It's iffy, again. We do have Eternals and such. But, thought I should bring up his name.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Under the lame category....not on the list are the three members of the GLA that were in the contest: Flatman, Big Bertha, and Squirrel Girl. Do we want them included again? Two did advance, after all.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

You said that before and Adam Warlock turned out to have a lot more power with the Soul Gem. They are ALREADY pretty powerful without the gems, so why bother increasing them? Just so they could cream the competition even more... Except Pip he could have his gem...

I say leave them out.

Adam Warlock is the only one of the group who can use his gem intelligently. Even Moondragon is not close to being Too Uber with her gem. Gamora never used her gem at all. Drax is/was no where near smart enough to use his. Pip, all he did was teleport with it.
I can see a case being made for Adam, but the others should be allowed to keep the gems as they hardly make them any more of a threat then they already are.

 

[POWdER-man]

Without prep their fine, but with that prep-time they could do a lot of planning. I think the sorcerer supreme is really questionable. He is beatable, but used like Harlekin did in Season 1 he could easily be considered Uber. He could use the Ark of Zaboomafu (or whatever the hell else) and become immune to telepathy and easily beat Xavier. With powerful mystical characters we would have to have deep consideration, because there is almost no limit in what they could do.

I just read the Black Panther issue (House of M) where Blackbolt blasted Apocalypse and half the city with a whisper, so I kind of agree with you there.