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misjuevos
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bas boon of GG speaks
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/new...or-SF-to-become-a-real-competitor-to-the-UFC/
this vid is dana talking about overeem's ranking, it's from last year. i figure if overeem does eventually go to the ufc we might get a different story from white then. so it's good to know what was his stance before the hype machine gets going.
3:45 is when alistair overeem is brought up
[YT]zHSWP6WPotI[/YT]
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/new...or-SF-to-become-a-real-competitor-to-the-UFC/
this vid is dana talking about overeem's ranking, it's from last year. i figure if overeem does eventually go to the ufc we might get a different story from white then. so it's good to know what was his stance before the hype machine gets going.
3:45 is when alistair overeem is brought up
[YT]zHSWP6WPotI[/YT]
The_Joker_hahah
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Brock Lesnar, Baddest sob on the planet!!
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Dana should just stick Shaq in a matchup with Shane Carwin as a co-co Main Event of a UFC PPV & make a ton of money of his name.. then once he has been destroyed he'll stop coming out with this sort of **** every week.
He seems to think that because he has dabbled in some MMA training that he is capable of stepping into a cage with anyone. Training in something is completely different to competing in something.
Hong-man is nothing more than a freakshow MMA fighter, promoters use the fact that hes like 7ft tall as credibility for him as an MMA fighter. He has limited kickboxing skills & no real ground game.. that being said he does have fight experience.. something Shaq doesn't. I'd expect Hong-man to destory Shaq otherwise he should consider a career in something else.
He seems to think that because he has dabbled in some MMA training that he is capable of stepping into a cage with anyone. Training in something is completely different to competing in something.
Hong-man is nothing more than a freakshow MMA fighter, promoters use the fact that hes like 7ft tall as credibility for him as an MMA fighter. He has limited kickboxing skills & no real ground game.. that being said he does have fight experience.. something Shaq doesn't. I'd expect Hong-man to destory Shaq otherwise he should consider a career in something else.
TheVileOne
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I'd say we have to put Overeem around top 10 now that he's beaten Werdum. But then White has never been a big fan of Fedor anyway.
Werdum didn't do that well in the UFC anyway and Fedor didn't even do that well in the US.
Werdum didn't do that well in the UFC anyway and Fedor didn't even do that well in the US.
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Personally I rank Overeem in & around the same ranking as Kongo.
His win over Werdum wasn't impressive at all, he essentially just stuffed his takedowns & barely did enough to outpoint him on the feet.
When Overeem signs for the UFC, which looks like it will soon happen, then we'll see where Overeem really is at in terms of having to deal with alot more well rounded & dangerous heavyweights.
His win over Werdum wasn't impressive at all, he essentially just stuffed his takedowns & barely did enough to outpoint him on the feet.
When Overeem signs for the UFC, which looks like it will soon happen, then we'll see where Overeem really is at in terms of having to deal with alot more well rounded & dangerous heavyweights.
E-Man
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What Werdum did in that fight can't be considered takedowns. That was more like assdowns because that's all he was getting to the ground with those Manu Ginobili level flops. I'm still wondering how the hell both guys gassed that bad in that fight. I know they're heavyweights, but come on now.
DoomsdayApex
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Overeem won the 2010 K-1 Grand Prix. These tournaments bring forth some of the world's best strikers varying from Muay Thai, Shotokan/Kyokushin Karate, Savate, Kickboxing, etc.
Velasquez is a wrestler first and a Boxer second.
Dos Santos is a one-dimensional Boxer.
Carwin only depends on knock power (has never thrown a single combination).
There's your top three HWs in the UFC. Neither of these guys could stand and trade with strikers like Badr Hari, Tyrone Sprong, and Gokhan Saki.
Now let's move on to his ground game. Overeem won the European ADCC, and has the world's deadliest Guillotine choke (the most feared submission by wrestlers). Enough said.
Velasquez has a brown belt in Guerrilla Jiu-Jitsu.
Dos Santos has a brown belt under the Nogueira Bros.
Carwin has a purple belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
Once again, there's your top three, and their career highlights in the submission game. Two out of the three have yet to lock in a submission.
Let's move onto experience.
Velasquez is 9-0
Dos Santos is 13-1
Carwin is 12-2
Overeem is 35-11-1 (that's 47 professional MMA bouts). No comparsion here for experience.
While Overeem's win over Werdum wasn't impressive -- I could point out Anderson Silva-Damien Maia or Anderson Silva-Thales Leites or Jose Aldo-Mark Hominick or GSP-Jake Shields. Amazing... I guess you have a short memory when it comes to the UFC's own. Alistair's gameplan was to simply stop the takedown, and he did 85% of the time. Werdum has below average knock out power, Overeem was never in trouble.
By the by, I love that people are also downgrading Fabricio Werdum. The guy who manhandled and derailed two hypetrains in Gabriel Gonzaga and Brandon Vera -- who both are still in the UFC oddly enough. Werdum lost to Arlovski (on points in a close decision) and Dos Santos (who is currently the #2 to #3 HW in the world). Furthermore, Werdum wasn't cut, he walked away just like Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski. The man is the most feared ground specialist in the HW division.
In summary, Alistair Overeem is NOT some lacky or mediocre talent that is getting a fortunate chance in the UFC. Overeem is a fighter that has paid his dues in a long career, and is a well-rounded specimen.
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E-Man
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The European ADCC was just the trials. It's a nice skin, but it doesn't mean that he would just destroy guys on the mat. His problems have always been cardio and taking damage, and he hasn't shown that at all yet. He's a good front runner, but he'll get absolutely destroyed by Cain. He won't stop the takedowns, and once he gets tagged on the ground(which he would) he'll go out pretty soon. After that who knows, but he needs to fix his cardio big time.
DoomsdayApex
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He's handled and/or submitted fighters like Fedor, Mousasi, and Einemo quite well during grappling sessions. Granted, they are only grappling sessions but his skillset on the ground is terribly underrated. Let's also not forget that Overeem went to the ground with Werdum in their first match up, and he was impressive with his submission defense.
Taking damage -- I do not agree with that point. He proved that his chin was stable during the K-1 tournament.
However, I do agree with the cardio aspect. It's a reason why Overeem dropped from 265 lbs to 250lbs in his most recent bout. All that muscle mass might have worked well for the K-1 bouts but it doesn't serve him well in MMA.
I disagree. If Velasquez cannot take down Overeem, then it's inevitably over, and Overeem's TDD has improved significantly. And I'm willing to bet that Cain will be thinking about that Guillotine Choke as he shoots for a takedown.
DoomsdayApex
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Cain has had only 9 professional MMA bouts in his career, and the last striker he faced [Kongo] nearly killed him. Nine opponents who are one-dimensional (for the most part) are not MANY people.
We'll see come next year. Overeem is currently seeking a contract, and considering that Dana already gave Diaz of all people a title shot then Alistair will most likely get one right away as well.
TheVileOne
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DoomsdayApex, Kongo hurt him bad but what did he do? He recovered and took him down and won the fight.
JDS has holes in his game a fighter like Cain can exploit. Cain is a much better wrestler than Carwin and he has much better cardio and stamina. And Carwin was still able to take JDS down. He couldn't keep him down, but Cain will be able to do that better than Carwin.
JDS has holes in his game a fighter like Cain can exploit. Cain is a much better wrestler than Carwin and he has much better cardio and stamina. And Carwin was still able to take JDS down. He couldn't keep him down, but Cain will be able to do that better than Carwin.
DoomsdayApex
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Yes, because Kongo has nonexistent TDD. Who knows where Kongo would be today if he would have added Wrestling and some BJJ to his arsenal? The guy is a talented kickboxer, but let's face it -- we all knew Cain would be victorious because of his wrestling background. It's a shame really.
Of course JDS has holes in his game (including in the stand up department), but if Dos Santos does manage to stand back up then Velasquez is going to be in a world of hurt. So far, JDS has taken Nelson's and Carwin's best. Not bad for a solid Boxer.
Project862006
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not sure what you think of women's mma but this new girl is being patterned as the future of women's mma and she is pretty sick
her name is Ronda Rousey she is only 24 and an Olympic Bronze Medalist in Judo here is her background:
and all 6 of her wins together equals a grand total time of 3:20 seconds
all 6 fights ended in round 1 and all under 1 minute and all by Arm Bar.
and she is'nt bad to look at either
her name is Ronda Rousey she is only 24 and an Olympic Bronze Medalist in Judo here is her background:
she is 3-0 in MMA as an Amateur and now 3-0 as a Pro
and all 6 of her wins together equals a grand total time of 3:20 seconds
all 6 fights ended in round 1 and all under 1 minute and all by Arm Bar.
and she is'nt bad to look at either
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DoomsdayApex
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Yeah, I was going to post the Yahoo article talking about her transformation from Olympic Judo to MMA, but I got sidetracked.
She's a beast. I heard she's freakishly strong (powerful vice grip).
She's a beast. I heard she's freakishly strong (powerful vice grip).
DoomsdayApex
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Those Judo throws are nasty, and hold a valuble purpose other than stunning your opponent. If they are performed properly, a Judoka will find himself or herself in side control or in a position to lock in a submission.
Shame that alot of Judokas don't transit to MMA that well. Their approach is mediocre. Here's hoping that Hawn and Rousely change the landscape, and bring back the Judoka rep.
Shame that alot of Judokas don't transit to MMA that well. Their approach is mediocre. Here's hoping that Hawn and Rousely change the landscape, and bring back the Judoka rep.
Mace Bloodstone
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How many weight classes do the girls have?
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K-1 is kickboxing. Not MMA.
European ADCC is submission grappling. Not MMA.
I'm sure the best of the best strikers in the world fight or have fought there... however in truth being a K-1 Grand Prix champion means as much as being an NCAA champion in MMA.. nothing other than they sound good on your fighting C.V. during your introductions.
Actually Lesnar would be ahead of Carwin however it is still a moo point I feel. None of the guys you've highlighted ever aspire to be K-1 champions. They aspire to be MMA champions which is the inclusion of ALL disciplines.
Again I feel this is another moo point. Dos Santos has hardly grappled at all inside an MMA cage because nobody has managed to get hold of him & get him to the ground without getting KO'd.
None of the fighters are submission specialists either, 1's a boxer/striker & the other 2 are wrestlers that just so happen to be able to strike a little.
It's not hard to believe though that considering they've all got some form of Jiu-Jitsu qualification that they are in some capacity competent in regards to submissions & sweeps.
Don't forget, Overeem was only a ADCC European champion. Let me put that into perspective. Audley Harrison is the EBU European Heavyweight Champion in boxing. He is in the same weightclass as the Klitschko's who would both be eligible to fight for this title if they wanted to.. do you see were I am going with this. The real top boxers (or in Overeem's case, grapplers) are competing at a world level. While it is fairly impressive to win this for a guy that is primarily a striker.. it's hardly something to sing & dance about in my opinion nor does it mean he is some sort of ground wizard.
...and were have I given you any sort of an indication that I felt any of these performances were impressive wins?
I'm talking about Allister Overeem, not GSP, Silva or Aldo.
Gonzaga is retired from MMA & now only competes in BJJ. Brandon Vera was cut, then rehired after his 3rd straight lose was to Thaigo Silva.. who had failed a drugs test after the fight.
I don't downgrade Werdum I just don't find him that impressive. He hasn't beat anyone that I personally consider to be a top guy.. Fedor included.
Gonzaga is/was an idiot fighter. He pretty much had a grappling advantage over everyone in the HW division & rather than fighting to his strengths & trying to use his decent striking ability to initiate grappling he tried to exclusively stand with guys. His hype train was ended by Couture btw because his train only started after he'd KO'd Crocop.
Brandon Vera's train was was ended by Tim Sylvia before Werdum.. enough said. Vera has no heart, quits too easy when he is getting controlled on the ground.
I don't think hes a bad fighter if that's what you are getting upset about, however for me personally I don't feel hes any higher up the rankings or more well rounded than Cheick Kongo at this juncture.
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not sure what you think of women's mma but this new girl is being patterned as the future of women's mma and she is pretty sick
I saw this the other night, ridiculous stoppage from Mazzagatti.
Rousey seemed to indicate to Mazzagatti that D'Alelio had tapped which she clearly hadn't either physically or verbally.. which I think was pretty low unless it was accidental on her behalf.
Mazzagatti knew he'd made a **** up the second he'd stopped it, he couldn't even look D'Alelio in the eyes.
He shouldn't be allowed to referee in MMA again.. when a sport has bets running on it this sort of **** cannot happen.
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