OK...its time.....Man of Steel vs Superman Returns

[TDK elbowstrike]

I have heard some people comment they like how Superman saved people in SReturns and that it was an aspect that was missing in MOS. Wtf!? What about the oil rig full of people he saved? In Smallville, he saved a helicopter pilot who was just targeting him with lethal force, shooting to kill. Supes saved him anyways, he didnt have to. Thats the Superman I love. He sure saved that family at the end, with a thunderous snap no less. I'm sure there's many more instances of saving people in MOS.But I hate people complaining because they wanted a similar scene from Returns where he saves a bunch of people on his way to the boss battle.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Lois who is dumb as rocks why she doesn't go to the police saying Superman raped her, I have no idea.

I died.

 

[scifiwolf]

Man of Steel by only a mile? Try the distance between Earth and Krypton.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Yeah, Just because we have got a shiny new toy, let's throw away the old one.

Jumping onto bandwagon mentality, whatever is new is good, whatever is old must be bad.


Most of those who fail to see any merits in SR, are basically fans of movies with CGI effects and action.

People have disliked SR long before MOS came out, so don't use that as an excuse.

SR had so many CGI effects and action, I can't see your point.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

and even the representatives of RT say that they're shocked at the score, which shows that even they think it was a great movie, but all that aside the score of a movie on RT does not make or break a movie.

They're amazed at the score they are giving themselves? Whoa.

homaghes are fine... a complete rehash is what Superman Returns is

Both SR and MOS comprised the Donner movies story. SR did STM, MOS did STM and SII.

really, because last time i checked, there's a heck of a lot more going on in this film than there ever was in Superman The Movie and Superman II... tons more action, no amnesia kiss, none of the corniness... and if what you say is true, then the GA would of said so as well, yet so far, no one has made that claim... on the other hand, the GA is ENJOYING the film, much more than they enjoyed SR

Last time I checked a rehash doesn't have to be the exact same. As far as I know, MOS did better with the origin story than STM and a much threatening Kryptonian invasion than SII. That doesn't mean it's not completely based on that.

lets see... SR had a $270 million dollar budget and only broke $200 million
MOS has a $175 million dollar budget, and companies OTHER than the GA has already made up for the budget, something SR never got.

I was talking about GA, not about GA against the original budget. SR had against it that its budget was way too high, let alone the previous Superman movies attempts.

but this is an argument based on personal references and opinions, which will become an endless debate... you wanna like the travesty called Superman Returns, fine, go ahead. but dont expect people to always agree with you.

Do I look like I base my opinion on what other people say?

But if you do, don't expect many critics to agree with you.

I have heard some people comment they like how Superman saved people in SReturns and that it was an aspect that was missing in MOS. Wtf!? What about the oil rig full of people he saved? In Smallville, he saved a helicopter pilot who was just targeting him with lethal force, shooting to kill. Supes saved him anyways, he didnt have to. Thats the Superman I love. He sure saved that family at the end, with a thunderous snap no less. I'm sure there's many more instances of saving people in MOS.But I hate people complaining because they wanted a similar scene from Returns where he saves a bunch of people on his way to the boss battle.

I think Superman saved the whole Metropolis. And Clark Kent, before becoming Superman, did his share too.

Problem is that we didn't have a full costumed Superman being perceived as that, a "superman." We had little groups of people knowing about him, but nothing like Superman saving someone in full costume and becoming a hero to the whole world.

 

[BH/HHH]

As someone who was introduced to Superman through Superman 1 and 2., I can can say in imo, that MOS is the best Superman film since 1980. To me it called back to such diverse representations as the 40's cartoons, The Donner films, Smallville, and the post crisis comics. At the same time, it blended the Nolan realism with a 50's sci fi feel during the George Reeves era.

In alot of ways , it took alot of the strengths of SR and eliminated alot of the weaknesses imo. For me personally it hit all the write notes. It retold the myth without giving us a point by point rehash of the Donner film, it brought new aspects to the myth without being so radical it was unrecognizable, the handled old themes in a practical and realistic way, It balanced emotional and touching moments with the non stop action people have been longing for in a Superman film, and it set a foundation that a series of MOS sequels and JLA can build from.

Great post

 

[Super Kal]

Is it me or you're suggesting that having a good score is what makes a good movie?

never said that... you were the one who suggested that RT scores make movies what they are, not me.

Both SR and MOS comprised the Donner movies story. SR did STM, MOS did STM and SII.

again, homages are fine... rehashes, like SR did, are not fine.

Last time I checked a rehash doesn't have to be the exact same. As far as I know, MOS did better with the origin story than STM and a much threatening Kryptonian invasion than SII. That doesn't mean it's not completely based on that.

i could go either way with that. STM and MOS both have strengths when it comes to their respecting stories, but that's not the point here... the point is SR. I would have liked SR more if it had not copied STM almost to the T, and that was a big flaw to that movie.

I was talking about GA, not about GA against the original budget. SR had against it that its budget was way too high, let alone the previous Superman movies attempts.

that's no excuse. if it was such a good movie as you claim, then it would of been more successful- it wasnt.

Do I look like I base my opinion on what other people say?

apparently, you base the popularity of a film based on their RT score, whereas i dont, and neither does WB, and apparently, neither do the other companies that put their support into this movie.

But if you do, don't expect many critics to agree with you.

unlike you, i dont care what critics have to say... the popularity of a movie is not based on what critics alone have to say, because if they were, there WOULD of been an SR sequel- but like i said, RT does not make or break a film. the GA does.

 

[Shazam]

THe plane rescue is still awesome.

And it was down hill from there.........

That movie sucked...........

 

[conan69]

Actually Id place them about even.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

never said that... you were the one who suggested that RT scores make movies what they are, not me.

On the contrary, I said "Crap happens," as in 'it shouldn't but it does.'

again, homages are fine... rehashes, like SR did, are not fine.

Again, both movies had homages to Donner movies, references to Jesus.M MOS was the story of STM and SII put together. there's enough evidence in the movie to even deny this.

i could go either way with that. STM and MOS both have strengths when it comes to their respecting stories, but that's not the point here... the point is SR. I would have liked SR more if it had not copied STM almost to the T, and that was a big flaw to that movie.

Something that was a flaw to one movie was not to the other one that did the same thing.

But I'll give you one thing: the quotes in SR became annoying. Except the Jor-el speech to Kal-el that Superman repeated to his son. Whereas the references in MOS did not bothered me so much. But they were there.

that's no excuse. if it was such a good movie as you claim, then it would of been more successful- it wasnt.

It's far from an excuse, it's the topic.

No one goes to a movie more or give a better word of mouth more just because the movie's budget was higher.

In the theory two movies can be just as good and make just the same amount of money. They have been equally successful with the audience. If the budget very from one to the other, one will make more money. That doesn't mean people liked one more than the other.

apparently, you base the popularity of a film based on their RT score, whereas i dont, and neither does WB, and apparently, neither do the other companies that put their support into this movie.

No. I base my opinion in what I think.

It is you, my friend, who believe a movie is better if it get a sequel. Even Transformers 2 got a sequel.

unlike you, i dont care what critics have to say... the popularity of a movie is not based on what critics alone have to say, because if they were, there WOULD of been an SR sequel- but like i said, RT does not make or break a film. the GA does.

Unlike you, I don't care about a movie's popularity at all.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

This thread is a joke there is no comparison, MOS is easily the superior film in every way and I had my share of problems with MOS.

 

[Marvin]

This thread is a joke there is no comparison, MOS is easily the superior film in every way and I had my share of problems with MOS.

no one's laughing though

 

[conan69]

Superman Returns was all melodrama and low on action.

Man Of Steel was all action and low on characterization.

Both have strengths and weaknesses. Id rate Man of Steel about even with Captain America and Superman Returns. Better than TDKR, The Amazing Spiderman, Iron Man 2 & 3, but not as good as Batman Begins, TDK, Superman:TM, Iron Man or even Thor, which I enjoyed more.

 

[TDK elbowstrike]

I can't remember, how was Superman originally introduced to the world? I cant remember. I'm pretty sure him saving Lois and stopping a helicopter crash in full view of the public was originally conceived for Superman: The Movie. They reused it for Geoff John's Secret Origins and had a similar scene in S:TAS, I believe, where he saved Lois and Air Force One.

But was Superman's first exposure to the people of earth or Metropolis, in his debut back in '38, in full view of the public? Or did the people of Metropolis get introduced to him gradually over time? I genuinely don't know. Does anyone here know?

 

[LordofhouseEl]

no one's laughing though

Thats because not all jokes are funny.

 

[Marvin]

I prefer the start of MoS to SR.
More imagination, especially for new audiences.

 

[fixxxer1022]

Which was the better franchise reboot...

superman returns was not a reboot.

 

[Super Kal]

On the contrary, I said "Crap happens," as in 'it shouldn't but it does.'

and crap did happen... it was called Superman Returns.

Again, both movies had homages to Donner movies, references to Jesus.M MOS was the story of STM and SII put together. there's enough evidence in the movie to even deny this.

SR wasnt a homage... it was a complete rehash of STM and a "love letter to Richard Donner", Bryan Singer's own words.

No. I base my opinion in what I think.

It is you, my friend, who believe a movie is better if it get a sequel. Even Transformers 2 got a sequel.

so do i... and my opinion is SR was junk. you're entitled to your opinion, even if 95 people disagree with you

Unlike you, I don't care about a movie's popularity at all.

you made the statement about RottenTomatoes, i didn't, so stop trying to put words into my mouth. the truth is Superman Returns failed. otherwise there wouldn't even be a Man of Steel. time for you to accept that and move on.

 

[Ubba Dubba]

Superman Returns was all exposition and low on action.

Man Of Steel was all action and low on exposition.

Both have strengths and weaknesses. Id rate Man of Steel about even with Captain America and Superman Returns. Better than TDKR, The Amazing Spiderman, Iron Man 2 & 3, but not as good as Batman Begins, TDK, Superman:TM, Iron Man or even Thor, which I enjoyed more.

IMO Captain America was quite a lot better than SR and equal to Thor. MOS better than BB,TDK, S:TM and IM. I have been a Sup/Bat fan for over 40 yrs and even though I liked the TDKT a lot thought it did not show the fighting or detective skills of Batman.
As for SR vs MOS I could not even compare them without laughing. While MOS had a few issues I don't agree with most of the complaints about no heart( I teared up like 3 times and believe me I don't cry) and to much action. SR on the other hand had one good thing in the whole movie(the plane scene, but only up until Superman opened him mouth). Everything else was bad. Routh (who I still say was picked solely because of his resemblance to Reeve) the suit, everyone was miscast but Jimmy and the bad story. The exposition SR had was bad and it did have the one good action scene but no super fight. MOS had unbelievable action on a level never seen, and while the heartfelt moments might have been on the shorter side but they were there and were powerful for the time they had. Do I think MOS could have been even better if it had been cut down less, yes. I however blame the gotta have it now impatience of todays audience more than Snyder.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

and crap did happen... it was called Superman Returns.

Oh ok. let's go back to sixth grade.

I say I think it's too harsh what's happening to MOS in terms of critics. You answer with a childish pun. So be it.

SR wasnt a homage... it was a complete rehash of STM and a "love letter to Richard Donner", Bryan Singer's own words.

And it was good.

so do i... and my opinion is SR was junk. you're entitled to your opinion, even if 95 people disagree with you

Hahahah, tell me please how it is important that 95 people disagree with me. Please.

you made the statement about RottenTomatoes, i didn't, so stop trying to put words into my mouth. the truth is Superman Returns failed. otherwise there wouldn't even be a Man of Steel. time for you to accept that and move on.

I made the statement only after you said: "the general audience agreed,and obviously Warner Bros agreed." Like that was a serious statement about quality.

 

[DarKush]

I think MOS is a much better film than Superman Returns. It doesn't mean that MOS is not without flaws, but in comparing the two, MOS might look drab but at least it knew enough to throw in some big (if not always effective) action scenes while Returns was mostly just drab (outside of the excellent airplane rescue).

MOS also did a better job of making Superman a contemporary figure. Returns tried to thread the needle between making him relevant to the 21st century while being nostalgic for the Donner-Reeve era. Unfortunately even someone with all of Bryan Singer's skills just couldn't pull it off. Returns just had me wishing to see Reeve and Kidder again instead of feeling that it was a proper tribute to them. Instead Returns just showed me how much better the Donner films had been. MOS avoided that trap and that impossible comparison by rebooting the franchise and creating a new vision. Now it can largely be judged on its own terms or other comic book films as much as the being compared to the Reeve films.

I rarely find nice things to say about Returns, but I do think that it's flying effect was better, also the music, and I liked the colors of Routh's suit better than Cavill's. Also the Donner films design aesthetic is more appealing to me than the new MOS designs.

 

[def28]

MOS was a much more entertaining film. While it's far from perfect, it was a huge improvement on Superman Returns.

 

[Jim-El]

Which was the better franchise reboot...

Neither.

 

[113]

Man of Steel, and it isn't even close.

I walked out of Returns trying to convince myself how much I love the film. But the only things I liked about it were the VERY few "action" scenes like him getting in the eye with the bullet, him saving the plane and getting a standing ovation in the stadium, the audio cuts of Brando, him flying through Metropolis catching the Daily Planet globe, using laser vision to melt falling glass, blowing out the sewer-fire, and him falling to earth while people watched after he lifted the contient. In total all those scenes probably took up less than 10 minutes. I actually saw Returns a bunch of times in theaters and found myself bored except for THOSE scenes.

Other than those few scenes Returns was a snorefest I tried really hard to love, but never could.

With Man of Steel I actually walked out initially disappointed, and then (because I had the RT critics in my head) I tried to poke holes in it, but started to come up empty.

So with Returns I was trying to find excuses to love it.
With MoS I was trying to find excuses to hate it.

Returns got less appealing overtime
MoS is becoming more appealing the more I think of it.

Also, in many ways the best scenes in MoS aren't even the action scenes necessarily. Like I'm not going back to see it in Theaters just for action sequences, I actually want to see the plot and dialogue all over again. Hell, the scenes BEFORE Clark puts on the suit in MoS are some of the strongest to me, that wasn't true for Returns.

 

[BH/HHH]

Man of Steel by only a mile? Try the distance between Earth and Krypton.

And back again? t:

Man of Steel, and it isn't even close.

I walked out of Returns trying to convince myself how much I love the film. But the only things I liked about it were the VERY few "action" scenes like him getting in the eye with the bullet, him saving the plane and getting a standing ovation in the stadium, the audio cuts of Brando, him flying through Metropolis catching the Daily Planet globe, using laser vision to melt falling glass, blowing out the sewer-fire, and him falling to earth while people watched after he lifted the contient. In total all those scenes probably took up less than 10 minutes. I actually saw Returns a bunch of times in theaters and found myself bored except for THOSE scenes.

Other than those few scenes Returns was a snorefest I tried really hard to love, but never could.

With Man of Steel I actually walked out initially disappointed, and then (because I had the RT critics in my head) I tried to poke holes in it, but started to come up empty.

So with Returns I was trying to find excuses to love it.
With MoS I was trying to find excuses to hate it.

Returns got less appealing overtime
MoS is becoming more appealing the more I think of it.

Also, in many ways the best scenes in MoS aren't even the action scenes necessarily. Like I'm not going back to see it in Theaters just for action sequences, I actually want to see the plot and dialogue all over again. Hell, the scenes BEFORE Clark puts on the suit in MoS are some of the strongest to me, that wasn't true for Returns.

I think you may have a condition I kid t: