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Okay, I have many problems with this movie, but...

ultimatefan

The Batman must come back
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...I´ll defend it to death from people who say it´s another Catwoman or Elektra or B&R. I mean, c´mon! It DOES get a lot of things right... It´s not overly campy and silly... One of the things that annoy me about fanboys on these boards is it´s all black and white, things rock or suck, they can´t allow a movie to be simply okay or a mixed bag. That´s how I feel about X3. And I will always defend the filmmakers to death as well cuz I know a lot of the problems with this movie were not their decision.
 
I totally agree. Some people(fanboys) act like this film was unbelieveably bad but it had more good than bad.
 
Good post:up: I didn't think X3 was all that good BUT it's certainly not in that league of poor quality
 
Yea......it wasn't a horrible movie. But it's not like it's Oscar-worthy either. It's in the middle.
 
god/devil said:
I totally agree. Some people(fanboys) act like this film was unbelieveably bad but it had more good than bad.

I agree to but fanboys is a big word...
I also understand that some people were mad about no firebird, or dead Cyclops or Cured Rogue...so I understand them to.
But I agree the movie was really great best of all 3 of them.
 
Good post, ultimatefan. Some people are really stretching to find stuff to ***** about anymore.
 
ultimatefan said:
...I´ll defend it to death from people who say it´s another Catwoman or Elektra or B&R. I mean, c´mon! It DOES get a lot of things right... It´s not overly campy and silly... One of the things that annoy me about fanboys on these boards is it´s all black and white, things rock or suck, they can´t allow a movie to be simply okay or a mixed bag. That´s how I feel about X3. And I will always defend the filmmakers to death as well cuz I know a lot of the problems with this movie were not their decision.

It's definitely not horrible like Elektra, Catwoman, or Batman and Robin. It just could've been a lot better than it was.
 
If I had to rank X3 with another movie... I would say T3.

I loved both movies, but they had alot more potential to be epic.
 
It sucked, but yeah, it wasn't a travesty like Catwoman or B&R.
 
LastSunrise1981 said:
It's definitely not horrible like Elektra, Catwoman, or Batman and Robin. It just could've been a lot better than it was.
Absolutely. Fox is Satan´s workshop.
 
Evil, evil fanboys! They buy comics even during the cr***y storylines, they buy the merchandising, ... Evil! Evil!
Without them, holding a candle to the X-Men over decades, the movies wouldn't have been made, but evil! Evil!
 
LastSunrise1981 said:
It's definitely not horrible like Elektra, Catwoman, or Batman and Robin. It just could've been a lot better than it was.
I agree. I think it's the best superhero movie yet BUT the thing with X3 is that it COULD HAVE BEEN a lot better, given the setup from X2 and the Dark Phoenix Saga. The writers handled Dark Phoenix very hit and miss, with the hit being the Jean vs. Prof scene and the misses being Phoenix rising, killing Scott and the end. It's other main weakness is its editing--too abrupt (to many scenes that end in !! instead of ...) However, on its own merits without expectations of what it coulda been, it is a fine movie!!! (I rate it 8 out of 10...and I give X2 and Batman Begins each 7 and both Spider-mans and X1 6's. Batman and Robin = 0.) :D
 
While You have a point with all the Absolutisms(did I make that one up?). I was very disappointed with X3 and my problems with the film grow as I think of it more. Granted it wasn't a B&R level film, it certainly isn't a merit to the preceding films or to it's source material.
 
The problem with this movie is that the quality of it is tainted by some MAJOR deviations.

It just doesn't FEEL like X-Men when Cyclops dies in the beginning, and Wlverine marches up to save Jean at the end. Nor Wolverine barking out orders like the leader he's not. Nor does Rogue getting cured really feel like the X-Men to me.

And to me, with "X-Men", that's the most important thing, is make it feel like X-Men.

But the original poster is right. Other than that, the movie got everything right. And overall, outside of my problems with it that I listed above, it DOES feel like X-Men.

Beast was handled spot on. That is, no if's, and's, or but's about it, the Beast from the comics. Amazing portrayal. I never got my Gambit, but as far as X-Men members go, I got my #2 in Beast, and it was done perfectly.

Magneto was taken to another level. The character and set up was done brilliantly in X-Men and X2, and now we get to see the ACTIONS that perfectly describe Magneto. In X-Men and X2, it was all about the attitude and words that was all Magneto. In X-Men: The Last Stand, we got the ACTIONS of Magneto. Gathering an army to march to war against the humans, destroying the Golden Gate Bridge, and the little moments like the terrorist tape, and lecturing Pyro about Xavier's importance to the mutant cause are vintage Magneto. I absolutley loved those moments. His betrayal of Mystique shows just how serious he is in his campaign against humans, that even someone who stuck by his side from the beginning is no longer "worthy" without that X-Gene. And I particularly enjoyed that scene because I have always hated Mystique in the comics, cartoons, video games, and movies, so it was good to finally see her get ***** smacked out of the way.

The teamwork has ALWAYS been there in the X-Men movies (X-Men was pure side by side, combining powers for 1 objective teamwork, while X2 was splitting up to accomplish multiple tasks at once), but the fighting side by side and lining up in a row at the final battle are all things that reminded me of the original cartoon. Anything in these movies that reminds me of the cartoons is a good thing, since that was my original exposure to the X-Men.

Wolverine's scene in the forest, sure it should have been Cyclops going out and fighting to bring Jean back, but you can't tell me that scene wasn't classic Wolverine. And Wolverine WOULD do his fair share to fight for Jean as well.

Iceman finally iced up.

Angel's introduction, even if he did nothing after that and had minimal payoff for huge buildup.

Juggernaut was great.

And even though I hate the very thought of Wolverine marching up to save Jean, the way it was done was badass, showing off his adamantium skeleton. I actually thought there'd be a point when he'd be ALL adamantium, and that was something I was gonna be looking forward to.

This movie did more right than it did wrong, just like the previous 2. However, where the previous 2 got some minor details wrong but kept the essence, the changes in this movie actually changed the essence and foundation of the story being told. This movie may have taken a few direct things out of the comics like Fastball Specials and some dialogue here and there, but this movie was the worst for remaining true to the source material. What it changed was huge.

But it did keep a lot of the essence and foundation of the source material and the previous 2 movies, and overall, remains a good movie, better than X-Men, though not quite as good overall as X2, however it is on point with, and even exceeds, X2 in certain points.
 
I think a big part of it is expectation and precendent.

Elektra wasn't a mess. Just a pointless movie, sprung off from a characterization that was poor to begin with, and backed up by over-expectation of the character's potential in the way it was presented. Elektra was the weakest part of Daredevil (which I thought it was a pretty good movie) and did not warrant a movie of her own.

Catwoman and Batman & Robin were DOA. They had no chance of survival. Catwoman, to this day, is the worst in my book. It was a pure money-grab that depended upon star-power, sex appeal and some sort of ill-conceived urban hipness. It didn't deliver on any front. It was a joke. But people could tell it was a joke from a mile away; from the first sight of Halle's mouse helmet.

Batman & Robin was a studio blunder a long time in the making, dating back to the Batman Returns backlash. The seeds were planted in Batman Forever, though Schumacher was able to sneak in some characterization, drama and Batman-ness (some arguably more accurate than Burton's, but that's a different story). But in the end, Batman & Robin was exactly what Warner Bros wanted, just like X3 is exactly what Fox wanted. It's made even more upsetting in that I truly believe that a passionate filmmaker can overcome the studio system. I think a stronger filmmaker could've beaten Warners where Schumacher failed, as I think a stronger filmmaker than Ratner could've beaten Fox. Hell, Singer seemed to have humbled even the Grand Idiot Jon Peters after coming to Warners for Superman.

I have no desire to ever see X-Men 3 again. It's hard to get over the wasted potential set up by the first two. Maybe, in time, I will. I was able to reconcile my differences with Batman & Robin, mainly because I have it to thank for Batman Begins, and it's good for a few laughs every now and then (much like the 60s show, and a great deal of Batman comics from that era).

Sometimes utter averageness and wasted potential is worse than absolute crap.
 
Paste Pot Pete said:
I think a big part of it is expectation and precendent.

Elektra wasn't a mess. Just a pointless movie, sprung off from a characterization that was poor to begin with, and backed up by over-expectation of the character's potential in the way it was presented. Elektra was the weakest part of Daredevil (which I thought it was a pretty good movie) and did not warrant a movie of her own.

Catwoman and Batman & Robin were DOA. They had no chance of survival. Catwoman, to this day, is the worst in my book. It was a pure money-grab that depended upon star-power, sex appeal and some sort of ill-conceived urban hipness. It didn't deliver on any front. It was a joke. But people could tell it was a joke from a mile away; from the first sight of Halle's mouse helmet.

Batman & Robin was a studio blunder a long time in the making, dating back to the Batman Returns backlash. The seeds were planted in Batman Forever, though Schumacher was able to sneak in some characterization, drama and Batman-ness (some arguably more accurate than Burton's, but that's a different story). But in the end, Batman & Robin was exactly what Warner Bros wanted, just like X3 is exactly what Fox wanted. It's made even more upsetting in that I truly believe that a passionate filmmaker can overcome the studio system. I think a stronger filmmaker could've beaten Warners where Schumacher failed, as I think a stronger filmmaker than Ratner could've beaten Fox. Hell, Singer seemed to have humbled even the Grand Idiot Jon Peters after coming to Warners for Superman.

I have no desire to ever see X-Men 3 again. It's hard to get over the wasted potential set up by the first two. Maybe, in time, I will. I was able to reconcile my differences with Batman & Robin, mainly because I have it to thank for Batman Begins, and it's good for a few laughs every now and then (much like the 60s show, and a great deal of Batman comics from that era).

Sometimes utter averageness and wasted potential is worse than absolute crap.
Yeah, but sometimes absolute crap is COMBINED with wasted potential... One could make a great Catwoman movie if they tried... Even Batman & Robin, I mean, you can perfectly well get the Mr Freeze from TAS and Poison Ivy and make a really cool movie out of that.
 
ultimatefan said:
...I´ll defend it to death from people who say it´s another Catwoman or Elektra or B&R. I mean, c´mon! It DOES get a lot of things right... It´s not overly campy and silly... One of the things that annoy me about fanboys on these boards is it´s all black and white, things rock or suck, they can´t allow a movie to be simply okay or a mixed bag. That´s how I feel about X3. And I will always defend the filmmakers to death as well cuz I know a lot of the problems with this movie were not their decision.

Good ****ing post.

oh and nell

we got it the first 700 times.
 
In my eyes, I see X3 as being somehow on the same level as B&R and Catwoman NOT on terms of quality but by the final product. Unlike those films, X3 was on the verge of being THE X-Men film of them all. Unlike the Batman series which had seriously tumbled following BF, and Halle Berry's Catwoman, X3 initially no problems creatively OR financially. Singer had just made a big profit for Fox for X2 and was keen to start on X3. The film had EVERYTHING on its side. Creatively, it was being planned. The cast was mainly signed on.

The fact that you can go from THAT potential to a film that all my friends and myself refer to as 'a fun, popcorn summer brainless' film is what makes me hate this film at this level. Its nowhere near as bad as B&R, Catwoman, Captain America, etc., ...its just mediocre (A far worse crime, in my opinion).
 
mad-sci said:
In my eyes, I see X3 as being somehow on the same level as B&R and Catwoman NOT on terms of quality but by the final product. Unlike those films, X3 was on the verge of being THE X-Men film of them all. Unlike the Batman series which had seriously tumbled following BF, and Halle Berry's Catwoman, X3 initially no problems creatively OR financially. Singer had just made a big profit for Fox for X2 and was keen to start on X3. The film had EVERYTHING on its side. Creatively, it was being planned. The cast was mainly signed on.

The fact that you can go from THAT potential to a film that all my friends and myself refer to as 'a fun, popcorn summer brainless' film is what makes me hate this film at this level. Its nowhere near as bad as B&R, Catwoman, Captain America, etc., ...its just mediocre (A far worse crime, in my opinion).
I just don´t go with the theory that "average is worse than crap", I don´t get the logic of that... Only when crap is crap enough to be funny, to be "so bad it´s good" fun, I guess, and neither B&R nor Catwoman, Captain America, etc. are that IMO. I will take okay over crap anytime. In theory, any of these movies could have been good, just if the people in charge took the right decisions.
 
I will take okay over crap anytime. In theory, any of these movies could have been good, just if the people in charge took the right decisions.

Unfortunately, I can't see myself doing that. I think the moment you accept something mediocre as being OK, you're on a slippery slope about judging quality.

My main problem with X3 is that following on from the first 2 (which built up lots of character arcs and plots), this film decided to just rush through very similar points. It's not like the Godfather trilogy or even the original Star Wars trilogy, because everything that was set up for X3 in X2 leads you to believe that the X-films WON'T be a trilogy. To have the story all wrapped up so shoddily (and have the audacity to claim after all the events that MAYBE the story is not over) is criminal.
 
Well, I FINALLY got to see it lastnight, and I'll say that I'm disappointed. I've stayed away from this forum for a while, but some PUNK over in the Spider-Man forum mentioned that Scott gets killed early on... I took that pretty bad (I'm one that's felt he should have had a bigger role in the movies, especially this one). I definitely think that it should have been him going through the woods, although it was good to see Wolverine "in his element."

Beast was perfect. The way he was introduced, his role in the movie... that's exactly how he should have been. I didn't expect Magneto to get cured, but everything else in the movie about him satisfied me (especially the closing scene... it made me a LOT happier). I wasn't too happy with Wolverine's role, as once again he was the "main guy." Come on, that's what the spin off is for. I didn't like Storm's character in this one as much as the first two. Juggernaut really wasn't bad. As much as people complained early on about his looks, he wasn't in the movie enough to worry about it. I would have liked to see him and Colossus though in the final battle.

I REALLY wasn't expecting the professor to die, expecially like that. I also wasn't too thrilled about Rogue getting cured, but it doesn't surprise me and it was at least in context with her character. This movie is nowhere near B&R, but it's probably my least favorite X-Men movie. To me, this movie is also like T3... the first two were better (IMO), but it's still entertaining and fun to watch. I don't regret buying the tickets, but I won't be seeing it again (unless it's more of a social event than a movie event).
 
what can I say? this is all cuz of me, ultimate... There are no special group of fanboys claiming anything, no monsters hiding under the bed, no conspiracy we all need to keep looking over our shoulders after, just me. I half heartedly defended the first two x movies by claiming to want more movies like x3 along with catwoman, ff, and b&R and now it's blown up into something crazy like this where it's being made up to seem like there are some out there trying to stick it to the last stand, and that's a dangerous way to think imo that breeds silly bias. the thought of this did occur to me butt I pushed aside my better judgement and posted anyway to defend my precious x1 and x2 from what I felt were overyly harsh remarks being thrown at it. I made a mistake and wish I could take it back. Next time I just won't care when someone puts down x1 and x2 no matter how hard it is because it leads to exactly this. I should know as a veteran of the batman vs fantastic war. I didn't even like begins as much as its most loyal fans do. You know what? that's fine. sometimes that happens. I don't see the need to spook everyone though. it's just little me and one silly rant. I actually like the last stand, parts of it. And FF, And catwoman, And B&R. I won't lie about that. And I'm not afraid to admit it like so many are, I think... I mean how is it that catwoman and b&r deserve to be bashed but x3 is safe from harm? No comic movie should be safe imo if only a selected few are not. Maybe someone likes catwoman or b&r no matter how outragious that seems. The child in me does enjoy each of them in some way. as a fan of crap like power rangers, it's not that bad to me, but because of it's flaws not while I'm alive it can't touch the x2, maybe more enjoyable than x1 though depending on the time of day...

that's all I wanted to say. I thought people should know what this is really about.

I think x3's on par with batman forever, while highly entertaining, it's just not something I want to become a blueprint for how x-men should be done.
 

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